Unofficial Keyboard Layouts

[slaeshjag]

Then your game is broken. When do you need keyboard input and shoulder button action at the same time? 

 

[_wb_]

But that's exactly how it is on the Pandora: L1 is RShift, R1 is RCtrl. What is the problem? You can easily detect those keys in any application, including games (and even differentiate them from LShift and LCtrl). OK, maybe some games have a GUI to let the user modify keys, and maybe some of them don't support modifier keys as game buttons, but that is easy enough to fix -- in the worst case, you need a little script that remaps the shoulder buttons to something else before launching the game, and restores them afterwards.

Sure the CTRL and Shift buttons can be detected, however FN and Meta keys generally can't be. Then there is the what if question when you need to have all the shoulder buttons used in a game, but also need the meta keys for keyboard input.. so I recommend not having meta's keys as shoulder buttons.


About the scripts, ones like that tend to break when applications crash or exit improperly and then there are hundreds of forum posts about shoulder buttons stop working like with the nubs currently on the Pandora.

Well in the unlikely case that your game needs full keyboard input (not just letters but also symbols that require Fn/Meta) and all shoulder buttons, then I guess you'll have to use the keyboard Fn/Meta (and Shift) and not the shoulder button one. Yes, that is a bit annoying - like in PNDManager, where if you enter a comment, you can only use keyboard shift because L1 is used to go one tab to the left. But it's not a big problem, and besides, if you map anything else to the shoulder buttons, you get the same problem.

Scripts that don't restore stuff when the application crashes are poorly written -- it is easy enough to make sure that things are restored whether or not the application exits correctly or not. The only problem is that if you temporarily alt-tab out of such a game, you may experience strange keybindings.

But keep in mind that this temporary remapping would only be necessary for poorly ported games that don't allow their game buttons to be mapped (in-game) to modifier keys. The better solution would be to just make a better port of the game .

 

[Askarus]

AFAIK you can't detect the Pandora Fn Key.

That would be bad for Shoulder buttons.

If we have a meta key that can be detected like the Shift Key then it's a good thing.

The Meta on the Shoulder button should not be the only meta key.

There should be a second one that works the same like the shoulder button one.

Exactly for games that need all shoulder buttons + the Meta Keys (maybe ESC).

Jedi Knight for example does.

 

[_wb_]

AFAIK you can't detect the Pandora Fn Key.


That would be bad for Shoulder buttons.


If we have a meta key that can be detected like the Shift Key then it's a good thing.

That is the plan.

The Meta on the Shoulder button should not be the only meta key.


There should be a second one that works the same like the shoulder button one.


Exactly for games that need all shoulder buttons + the Meta Keys (maybe ESC).


Jedi Knight for example does.

I agree, and that is my proposal: Meta where Fn is on the Pandora and also as L2.

 

[Askarus]

AFAIK you can't detect the Pandora Fn Key.


That would be bad for Shoulder buttons.


If we have a meta key that can be detected like the Shift Key then it's a good thing.

That is the plan.

The Meta on the Shoulder button should not be the only meta key.


There should be a second one that works the same like the shoulder button one.


Exactly for games that need all shoulder buttons + the Meta Keys (maybe ESC).


Jedi Knight for example does.

I agree, and that is my proposal: Meta where Fn is on the Pandora and also as L2.

Then we both agree .

 

[TrashyMG]

Then we both agree .

Mark this day on the calendar, two people agree with each other on this forum.

 

[LEOXD]

Mac's ⌘-key is actually recognized as Meta-key by jQuery (source)

 

[Caine]

Okay, sure... What if a game needs all the shoulder buttons and requires use of one of the keyboard keys that requires a meta button to press?

That's why the shoulder buttons are right alt/ctrl/shift and the top are left alt/ctrl/shift (or the reverse).
That way the game can bind to a specific version of the key, absorbing the modifier, whereas the other key can still be utilized to press the modified key.

For example, the right-alt (shoulder) is bound as a gaming button whereas left-alt (top) is used as a modifier.

 

[TrashyMG]

Okay, sure... What if a game needs all the shoulder buttons and requires use of one of the keyboard keys that requires a meta button to press?

That's why the shoulder buttons are right alt/ctrl/shift and the top are left alt/ctrl/shift (or the reverse).
That way the game can bind to a specific version of the key, absorbing the modifier, whereas the other key can still be utilized to press the modified key.

For example, the right-alt (shoulder) is bound as a gaming button whereas left-alt (top) is used as a modifier.

I know this, but that won't work with a Fn button.

 

[slaeshjag]

ED has stated there won't be an FN-button. There will only be a software-based modifier.

 

[TrashyMG]

^Okay I must of missed that detail.

 

[Saber]

The Pyra key should be the Menu key, since that is what it maps to on the Pandora, and why break backwards compatibility?

It's slightly illogical that a logo key is not a Super key, but that's how it is.

So that means we don't have any Super key yet, and putting it on the right keyboard shift makes sense (also since the actual Right Shift key should already be the L1 shoulder button for backwards compatibility). We could even put a small Pyra logo on that key, and put the label "MENU" on the Pandora button (so you get START/SELECT/MENU).

I should of asked sooner when the above was posted but do you _wb_, or anyone else, know how it would specifically break backwards compatibility if we assign the Pyra key to Super and, in my layout, apportion the Context Menu key to Fn + Spacebar?

 

[God Ginrai]

Would that even break backwards-compatibility? I don't know of any games that used the Pyra key due to the fact that MiniMenu trapped that key for quitting applications.

-God Ginrai

 

[Saber]

Would that even break backwards-compatibility? I don't know of any games that used the Pyra key due to the fact that MiniMenu trapped that key for quitting applications.

-God Ginrai

Probably has no effect. Changing it to the Super key would be logical since the Pandora key was hacked to be the "Windows" start menu key anyway. We'd have a Super key for hotkey combos and the Context Menu key could be assigned to Fn + Spacebar(or Fn + m) then. 

GG, I hope Askarus gets your layout to work.

 

[God Ginrai]

GG, I hope Askarus gets your layout to work.

As do I.

-God Ginrai

 

[Saber]

Few revisions to the Pyra layout.

Changed PYRA key value to Super.

Replaced the micro symbol with section sign. For micro, AltGr + m should suffice.

Added a USB and Bluetooth Pyra Game Controller called the "PyraPad".

The (c ) and (z) action buttons were assigned "/" and "=" to keep it basic.

 

[Grench]

Few revisions to the Pyra layout.

Changed PYRA key value to Super.

Replaced the micro symbol with section sign. For micro, AltGr + m should suffice.

Added a USB and Bluetooth Pyra Game Controller called the "PyraPad".

The (c ) and (z) action buttons were assigned "/" and "=" to keep it basic.

Please properly stack the start key so that it follows ED's current plastics.  Until/unless he says side-by-side, lets keep the keyboard mappings reflective of current reality?

 

[Saber]

Few revisions to the Pyra layout.

Changed PYRA key value to Super.

Replaced the micro symbol with section sign. For micro, AltGr + m should suffice.

Added a USB and Bluetooth Pyra Game Controller called the "PyraPad".

The (c ) and (z) action buttons were assigned "/" and "=" to keep it basic.

Please properly stack the start key so that it follows ED's current plastics.  Until/unless he says side-by-side, lets keep the keyboard mappings reflective of current reality?

I'll leave it as I have it Grench.

Until ED says he won't place Select beside Start like on most gamepads(not a question of can't because it does fit on the Pyra), it will be realized as it is in my layout. I'm not the only one who thinks Select is difficult to press in game. 

 

[Saber]

Moved the ( c) and (z) buttons a bit.

"Fn" is a sticky key so one of them should be enough.

Reworked both concepts if shoulder button pairs cannot be stacked during mass production and/or a suitably robust hinge company cannot be located. Placing the shoulder switches side by side would require some board component shuffling I believe: pic.

 

[Saber]

Toiled with the Shoulder buttons for both concepts. Would like to see these paddles in the new hardware but we'll wait and see.