The Whatever Happened To Zodttd Thread

[Exophase]

My vote would be to help the guys doing the GBA emulation, if it could be got to the same level that NEOGEO is that would be ace.

It's still some kind of funny, that we have full Speed NeoGeo and CPS2 Emulators (This guy who made CPS2 was amazing! ) but still not a Full Speed SNES or GBA Emulator, ok GBA makes BIG steps.


GBA is, for the most part, much more powerful than NeoGeo.

GBA has 32Bit, right? Ok, but when GBA is so powerful (I'm sure he is) why he can't have games like NeoGeo Fighters with all this amazing big Sprites, zooming and Scaling Orgies and all the other Amazing Graphics... or do GBA has? (I don't know much GBA Games )
Is it all because of the huge Module-Rom-Sizes of NeoGeo?


Okay, I'll compare the specs, the * is from the Wikipedia node for NeoGeo, + is GBA specs.

* Main Processor: Motorola 68000 running at 12 MHz
+ This is a pretty slow CPU, it's generally agreed that ARM is more than 2x better than 68k at the same clock speed, so GBA has about 3x the main CPU power.

* Co-Processor: Zilog Z80 running at 4 MHz. This is used as an audio controller.
+ GBA doesn't have a coprocessor, but this is another very slow (clock for clock) CPU that doesn't take a lot to emulate.
* Sound chip: Yamaha YM2610 15 Sound Channels. 7 Digital, 4 FM synthesis, 3 PSG, and 1 Noise Channel.
+ GBA doesn't have FM synth, but it can resample and mix two digital audio channels (in addition to the 3 PSG and 1 noise channels it has, similar to NG)

* Main Memory (used directly by 68K): 64 KiB
+ GBA has 32KB + 256KB of main memory.
* Main Video Memory: 64 KiB
o Palette Memory : 8 KiB
o Fast Video RAM : 2 KiB
+ GBA has 96KB of VRAM, 1KB of palette RAM (NeoGeo has a kinda large palette which is atypical)
* Sound Memory (used directly by Z80): 2 KiB
+ Moot since there's no secondary CPU on GBA.

* Display resolution: 304x224 (320x240 with 8px borders on each side)
+ Well of course NeoGeo wins here, GBA is only 240x160
* Color Palette: 65,536
+ GBA is 32,768, which is comparable.
* Maximum Colors On-Screen: 4,096
+ GBA has 16bpp framebuffer modes and it's very easy to change palette per scanline, not to mention blending effects, but in the paletted modes it's 512 colors (one palette for sprites and one for BG. A 4096 entry palette is pretty weird like I said, but that might also be segmented into several?)
* Maximum Sprites On-Screen: 380
+ GBA can do 128 per line, it's entirely feasible to have several hundred onscreen. I've seen games do this before (see the Bullet Hell trainer demo)
* Minimum Sprite Size: 1x2
+ GBA's sprites can't get smaller than 8x8, since they're tiled..
* Maximum Sprite Size: 16x512
+ GBA's sprites can be up to 64x64, or 128x128 area if scaled/rotated.. I don't think 512 long sprites are going to do you much, that 16 width maximum is much more limiting.
* Maximum Planes: 3
+ GBA has 4 in mode 0 (which is what most games use)

It doesn't mention scaling/rotation, but I'll tell you right now that GBA can scale/rotate sprites arbitrarily, and can have up to 2 fully scaled/rotated backgrounds, not to mention free scaling/rotation on the framebuffer modes as well. If anything having only 16 wide sprites would make it really annoying to scale/rotate ones that are composites of several...

GBA games get up to 32MB, which is only somewhat smaller than the original spec size for NeoGeo ROMs (I don't know how many games went beyond that with "GigaPower" and whatever, but GBA games could have bank switched above 32MB too if anyone cared)

 

[rokdcasbah]

GBA has 32Bit, right? Ok, but when GBA is so powerful (I'm sure he is) why he can't have games like NeoGeo Fighters with all this amazing big Sprites, zooming and Scaling Orgies and all the other Amazing Graphics... or do GBA has? (I don't know much GBA Games )
Is it all because of the huge Module-Rom-Sizes of NeoGeo?

this is going to sound dumb but, i think the difference basically comes down to the standards being a lot lower.

also, the focus is different since the neo geo software was mainly used in arcade systems where the game has to be flashier rather than longer. although i don't know the numbers...were there more home consoles sold than arcade machines? i'm guessing no, since i've never seen an AES, but i've seen a few MVSs).

given the huge library of gba games and the fact that 99.99% are franchise games* or re-releases of 10 year old console games, or bad "nicktoon" platformers, i really think the bar for commercial gba games is just set really really low.

*that number could be higher, i'm not sure. my point is: nintendo, for christ's sake, stop making mario games. STOP. ENOUGH.

 

[QuasaR]

Me wants more PSX on the daily way to work!! (And of course to impress all that little school kiddies with my GP2X running PSX games on it... )

 

[Khan]

1- DOSBOX! (old Infogrames and Sierra SCI adventures on the go = my dream fullfilled... )
2- PSX (Focusing on 2D and simple 3D games in the first place and then moving on with the problematic ones...)

Adventure games are better suited by direct ports; ie: all the major interpreters are already available on most every platform (infocom, sierra, lucasarts, level 7, magnetic scrolls, etc), and porting (say) frotz (for infocom style) is a _one hour job_. The trick is making them playable on handhelds. (I've done that extensively on PDA's like Palm OS, so it can be done quite nicely.)

DOSBox is better for un-opened things, like playing Wizardry etc

jeff


Yes, but unfortunately FreeSCI seems to be at a very early develpment stage (Most of the games supported are text-input games) and no updates since long ago...
Yes, another way would be improving Amiga emulation and looking for PC ports (if you are lucky to find them in English) but continuous disk swapping proves to be annoying anyway.

Well, let´s see how Dosbox fares with them (fingers crossed )

 

[fusion_power]

Lower screen resolution for one...

I know Forgot to mention. The GBA Resolution is no problem on a GBA. But on a GP2X everything really looks a little bit tiny. But for me as Amateur-pseudo-GXF-Artist, it's Amazing what these Proggers can do with such a little screen resolution. Even 16X16 Tiles/Sprites looks often perfect. I always wanted such skils. Samus Arans Morphball for example in GBA Metroids is only 16x16 Pixel, perfect animated to, many tiles in GBA Games are just 16x16 or 8x8 Pixel. In Advance Wars you can see so much completely different looking units, Tanks, Planes, Soldiers... and all only 16x16 pixel, somtimes less.... This is what I call ART

@Exophase: Thanx for the comparison.

Sorry for OffTopic. I just always start to dream what such People could do for Games for our GP2X if they unleash all of his power...^^"""""

 

[dsraa]

Ohh baby...DOSBOX 4x? I'm almost creaming my pants right now....


DSR

 

[reiboul]

Too bad resolution is that bad... same games with 320x240 (maybe with a little more power/coding?) would have been soooo cooool and bigger cartridges, too! hehe the perfect 2D handeld

 

[ydderf45]

i would definally vote for snes and psx since ff7 is almost compelty playable and snes cause snes emulation is the #1 reason i bought a gp2x for

 

[duderoo]

I would vote for porting over the CPS1 emulator that NJ wrote for the PSP. The CPS2 emulator was ported over, and the two share a fair amount of code, so there should be a pretty good base to start from.

Thanks for listening to user suggestions, zodttd!

Hi everyone,

I've been extremely busy as of late. But good news is I have got a lot of work out of the way and will have more spare time outside of work to program things such as GP2X projects.

I'm going to talk to Unai and see what the future of psx4all holds. I wonder if I pushed the dynarec of psx4all as far as *I* am able to. If so, then I will figure out how to handle the project with Unai.

I got quite a few requests to do the DOSBox "C" or "Basic" dynarec for ARM based systems in order to improve it's performance. This is high on my list of things I'm considering. It's a very precise task to do and I can get it done in freetime with the help of the DOSBox team.

Other than that, all I can think of is continue work on OpenTTD. So much has already been done on the GP2X, I'm trying to think of things that helps out the GP2X and has a use on other platforms as well. Both ideas mentioned have that in mind.

Any ideas? Remember not to argue with someone over whether its an unreasonable idea. Even if someone says "Dreamcast emulator", no flames. I like to keep things open to all GP2X ideas whether feasible or not.

Now that gpSP2x is in good hands (with a tight grip!) I need to find something to motivate some programming.

 

[DaveC]

I would give my vote for Pc-engine with CD support with full sound and save support or a CPS1 emu (CPS2 is fullspeed so CPS1 should be doable. the source for the GP2X CPS2 emu is available for reference too). Or any other emus that could run full speed on an average GP2X.

Those should be pretty "easy" for Zod' compared to the other stuff he has tried.

Dosbox would be OK except that the speed will not be too great on the GP2X due to hardware. The need for keyboards, mice, and other PC periferals that are lacking on the GP2X limits the useability. I suppose some of the simpler stuff that doesn't rely heavily on a keyboard would work ok.

 

[___]

Is the code of vobbo's pc-engine emulator available? because if it were, maybe someone could easily finish it, improving sound quality and adding save states. That would be pretty much that is left to do.

 

[sam fisher]

Is the code of vobbo's pc-engine emulator available? because if it were, maybe someone could easily finish it, improving sound quality and adding save states. That would be pretty much that is left to do.

I asked a while ago, he said maybe someday. I dont think it would be easy to do, I think its entirely ARM9 ASM lol.

 

[Rivroner]

I think that Zodttd could port the CPS1 emu in a weekend
I vote for that too

 

[Khan]

Dosbox would be OK except that the speed will not be too great on the GP2X due to hardware. The need for keyboards, mice, and other PC periferals that are lacking on the GP2X limits the useability. I suppose some of the simpler stuff that doesn't rely heavily on a keyboard would work ok.

There are lots of adventure games with a simple and comfortable interface (like the Sierra SCI ones) and 1st person RPG´s could use a simple control scheme (action buttons for directional arrows, stick for mouse and L & R buttons for left and right click). Of course, it depends of the game but lots of them should benefit from a proper keymapping.

Let´s hope they reach playable speeds

 

[zodttd]

When I was originally asked to do CPS2 by porting NJ's awesome work, I was going to complete it with MVS and CPS1 as well. Though I was beaten to it.
Sucked too since the person was going to pay a good sum for it. Heh.

DaveC: I will do a fullspeed PC-Engine emu but only if there's no sound emulation. It also must be scaled at a different aspect ratio.

As for DOSBox, I don't know how much faster any type of dynarec will make it. But x4 is stretching it. It's more of a benchmark of how much performance will be needed, not how much can be made.

 

[slaanesh]

Honestly, you should do what YOU want to do Zod.

t's nice of you to ask the community and all but if you do what you're passionately interested in, you'd have maximum enthusiasim and I'm sure no one will complain about whatever you choose. Even if it's an N64 emu based on Daedalus.

 

[___]

i guess everyone now expressed their wishes. you choose what you wanna do.

 

[DaveC]

When I was originally asked to do CPS2 by porting NJ's awesome work, I was going to complete it with MVS and CPS1 as well. Though I was beaten to it.
Sucked too since the person was going to pay a good sum for it. Heh.

CPS1 is still not done by anyone though. It doesn't appear anyone is doing it either. If that ran as well and with the same options as the CPS2 emu (could even use the same CAPEX frontend for continuity) that would be awesome. For you that would be child's play.

 

[gaterooze]

CPS1 is still not done by anyone though.

Er, MAME?

(cue standard response about needing too high an overclock or the sound being buggy...)

 

[DaveC]

CPS1 is still not done by anyone though.

Er, MAME?

(cue standard response about needing too high an overclock or the sound being buggy...)


You need too high of an overclock and the sound is buggy

It also needs frameskip. Dedicated emus seem to run better for some reason. Look at NeoGeo on MAME vs the dedicated emu.

The scaling options are better in CPS2. Probably because you only need to take care of one resolution, where as MAME you emulate hardware with many different resolutions. Look at how smooth it is on CPS2, and how rough it is in MAME. The CPS2 emu allow scaling horizontal only, and has averaging only on the pixels that need it. It looks blocky in MAME as it is a simple stretch, in all directions H&V.