So...Will there ever be a Pandora 2?

[ShleeDragon]

What i think will be doable...


Same dimensions of case (but without all the flaws of the current)


A 5" screen (unknown resolution for now)


A better keyboard (the current is good...but i think it could be improved)


Better nubs


A new mobo with updated hardware.

 
I would go even simpler than that. Every new component, new hardware piece, new design costs time and money.  I think we should keep whatever isn't 'broken'.


Same case - only modify if/where needed to fit the updated hardware.  KISS is an understatement.


I'd love to have a 5-5.5" 720p screen in it - yes this would require the inside-lid bezel piece to be significantly modified and the speakers to move.


Use speakers with clear membranes.  Wrap a split-rubber washer around them to prevent buzzing/vibrations and shove them up where the light pipes used to be - the light pipe holes become speaker grills.  The lights still shine up and through too.


Keep the keyboard - the current one is not only good - it's actually pretty darn good - and good enough to not require an expensive re-design.


Keep the nubs.  The nubs are excellent.  Calling for 'Better Nubs' assumes it's possible to just pull them off the shelf - it isn't.  The only change I would make to them is to re-case the base of them so that they ride in a socket on the MB instead of being soldered directly to it.  This way if a nub is bad, swap it, test and go.


New motherboard with updated hardware is a must.  If we use the current Pandora case molds as a constraint in design, and MWeston is doing the design, then all of the port positions and configurations can fall into the known column.


Starting over with a complete scratch build - that would be very expensive and would be a very long road time wise.


In My Humble Opinion Only of course - you're welcome to your opinion too.

The case should be redone because they can show off what they've learnt. -


plus the new case will make people know that is the next gen pandora. It's a psychological thing


The keyboard should be full QWERTY... The Pandora keyboard is great. but the iCP2 looks closer to excellent (it could suck).

 

[Binky]

Here's what I'd change:

 oddball ext connector ---->  pi-compatible headers + HDMI out

miniUSB2.0 ----> MicroUSB3

512MB NAND ---> several GB

USB host ---> USB-eSATA combo

bad wifi ---> good wifi

OMAP3 ---> OMAP5

old screen ---> slightly bigger, higher res screen

resistive touchscreen ---> resistive multitouch (if available)

fragile case ---> tough case (I'm sure the team can do much better than to one we've got)

mono mic ---> stereo mics (kind of a harmless gimmick)

chiclet keyboard ---> The keyboard from the iCP2 (with backlighting) (if its actually as good as It appears)

paddle shoulder buttons ---> side-by-side quad shoulder buttons

What I'd keep

The battery

The audio system

The gaming controls

The SD slots

The dedicated charging socket

 

[rohezal]

I want 3G in it. Then you don't a smarth phone anymore. Mobile Internet everywhere. Blue Tooth Headset for skype and calls or just type sms / fakebook / jabber / whatsapp. And try to keep the parts that work like the case, just try to improve it (make it stronger). Making moulds is crazy expensive. And try to keep the form factor of the mainboard.

For 3G you can just use Android, or maybe even the normal Pandora OS (Angstrom) again?

 

[ShleeDragon]

I want 3G in it. Then you don't a smarth phone anymore. Mobile Internet everywhere. Blue Tooth Headset for skype and calls or just type sms / fakebook / jabber / whatsapp. And try to keep the parts that work like the case, just try to improve it (make it stronger). Making moulds is crazy expensive. And try to keep the form factor of the mainboard.

For 3G you can just use Android, or maybe even the normal Pandora OS (Angstrom) again?

This is a one of those good ideas that are a real bitch to pull off.. the hardware is expensive and filled with restrictive NDAs. the software is all closed and has restrictive NDAs.. the antennas are different for all around the world. we would need to support it in the OS.

It's a better idea, just to sync to the bluetooth/usb tethered from your phone.

 

[konqithedragon]

This is turning into a wishlist thread again but yes..

I think 3G is a must for any device in the future.

Even a basic webcam... with WebRTC around the corner,,

 

[Grench]

Here's what I'd change:

 oddball ext connector ---->  pi-compatible headers + HDMI out

miniUSB2.0 ----> MicroUSB3

512MB NAND ---> several GB

USB host ---> USB-eSATA combo

bad wifi ---> good wifi

OMAP3 ---> OMAP5

old screen ---> slightly bigger, higher res screen

resistive touchscreen ---> resistive multitouch (if available)

fragile case ---> tough case (I'm sure the team can do much better than to one we've got)

mono mic ---> stereo mics (kind of a harmless gimmick)

chiclet keyboard ---> The keyboard from the iCP2 (with backlighting) (if its actually as good as It appears)

paddle shoulder buttons ---> side-by-side quad shoulder buttons

What I'd keep

The battery

The audio system

The gaming controls

The SD slots

The dedicated charging socket

Works for me.  I really like that eSATA/USB port combo - very nice.

I'm very concerned though when people assume changing the case is easy.  It was the biggest delay with the Pandora and now with the ICP2.  New case designs look like a very long development road.  Remember - our case is not just structural, it is also mechanical (hinge, battery door, torsional strength, compression strength).  It gets more tricky than a drawing.

 

[Binky]

I'm aware that case design is costly, time consuming and difficult, but if we accept some of the other changes (which I think are imperative for a successful product (a different set of connectors, a different screen, maybe different keyboard,  then the case will have to change significantly.

There have been numerous problems with the current case (both mechanically and aesthetically) which haven't really been resolved. The P2/Dragonfly needs a case worthy of an expensive modern gadget.

If good case design costs 500,000GBP, takes another 6 months and 15,000 dragonflies are sold (so the price goes up by 35GBP) its well worth the price IMO.

I want a device that will work flawlessly for many years (even if I start hacking it). I don't mind paying through the nose and waiting innumerable Two Monthses to get that.

 

[ShleeDragon]

I'm aware that case design is costly, time consuming and difficult, but if we accept some of the other changes (which I think are imperative for a successful product (a different set of connectors, a different screen, maybe different keyboard,  then the case will have to change significantly.


There have been numerous problems with the current case (both mechanically and aesthetically) which haven't really been resolved. The P2/Dragonfly needs a case worthy of an expensive modern gadget.


If good case design costs 500,000GBP, takes another 6 months and 15,000 dragonflies are sold (so the price goes up by 35GBP) its well worth the price IMO.


I want a device that will work flawlessly for many years (even if I start hacking it). I don't mind paying through the nose and waiting innumerable Two Monthses to get that.

 

[cuetzpalin]

I think some hardware specs are to be decided depending on the "target market" of the device... In order to make it appeal to a broader audience, (s some features should be included, such as:

• Full Qwerty (FULL)
• Cam
• HDMI output
• Bluetooth
• 4G

Also, Android out of the box (So you can switch between SuperZaxxon and Android).

What do you think?

 

[urjaman]

I'd say as long as we have as limited OS/kernel developer pool as we do now, dont do 3G/LTE/4G/whatever.


There are other reasons, including more binary blobs, NDAs, etc that also suggest that the pandora should not try to be a phone. Unless we want to be the new open phone that you cannot call with (and is like GPRS....)


I mean I can get an used feature phone with HSDPA for like 30€ around here, it just doesnt feel like worth the effort for me.


People already have a phone or their 3G modem stick that they can use with the pandora anyways.


EDIT: Also if we try to be a phone we would need to accommodate a SIM card holder somewhere. It takes very much needed PCB space - the phone hw also takes PCB space, that we need for our own special features.


Also, being a phone with licensed phone frequency transmitter would propably make it need more expensive EMC testing, and an IMEI and whatnot - it is lots of stuff to get right for relatively little gain for the target audience....


So I'm predicting that P2 will not have 3G.

 

[Nintendo]

Time to close this thread and make a Wishlist Thread version 2.0

 

[cuetzpalin]

EDIT: Also if we try to be a phone we would need to accommodate a SIM card holder somewhere. It takes very much needed PCB space - the phone hw also takes PCB space, that we need for our own special features.

 

[vcoleiro1]

Ok, I'll mention the Elephant in the room.  ED , do you foresee the P2 being dual boot - Linux and Android (both equally supported) ?

 

[Binky]

I think some hardware specs are to be decided depending on the "target market" of the device... In order to make it appeal to a broader audience, (s some features should be included, such as:

• Full Qwerty (FULL)
• Cam
• HDMI output
• Bluetooth
• 4G

Also, Android out of the box (So you can switch between SuperZaxxon and Android).

What do you think?

• maybe
• OK, if you accept it being rubbish (all mini cameras are)
• must have
• we've already got that (but it could be improved)
• covered by other posts in this thread (tl;dr: no)

It won't be Zaxxon. By then we'll have moved on to Yars' at the least. Dual-boot seems a good idea though.

 

[ShleeDragon]

I think some hardware specs are to be decided depending on the "target market" of the device... In order to make it appeal to a broader audience, (s some features should be included, such as:

• Full Qwerty (FULL)
• Cam
• HDMI output
• Bluetooth
• 4G

Also, Android out of the box (So you can switch between SuperZaxxon and Android).

What do you think?

• maybe
• OK, if you accept it being rubbish (all mini cameras are)
• must have
• we've already got that (but it could be improved)
• covered by other posts in this thread (tl;dr: no)

It won't be Zaxxon. By then we'll have moved on to Yars' at the least. Dual-boot seems a good idea though.

 

[EvilDragon]

Here's what I'd change:

 oddball ext connector ---->  pi-compatible headers + HDMI out

miniUSB2.0 ----> MicroUSB3

512MB NAND ---> several GB

USB host ---> USB-eSATA combo

bad wifi ---> good wifi

OMAP3 ---> OMAP5

old screen ---> slightly bigger, higher res screen

resistive touchscreen ---> resistive multitouch (if available)

fragile case ---> tough case (I'm sure the team can do much better than to one we've got)

mono mic ---> stereo mics (kind of a harmless gimmick)

chiclet keyboard ---> The keyboard from the iCP2 (with backlighting) (if its actually as good as It appears)

paddle shoulder buttons ---> side-by-side quad shoulder buttons

What I'd keep

The battery

The audio system

The gaming controls

The SD slots

The dedicated charging socket

That's pretty much my idea right now, not 100%, but pretty close.

 

[ShleeDragon]

Here's what I'd change:

 oddball ext connector ---->  pi-compatible headers + HDMI out

miniUSB2.0 ----> MicroUSB3

512MB NAND ---> several GB

USB host ---> USB-eSATA combo

bad wifi ---> good wifi

OMAP3 ---> OMAP5

old screen ---> slightly bigger, higher res screen

resistive touchscreen ---> resistive multitouch (if available)

fragile case ---> tough case (I'm sure the team can do much better than to one we've got)

mono mic ---> stereo mics (kind of a harmless gimmick)

chiclet keyboard ---> The keyboard from the iCP2 (with backlighting) (if its actually as good as It appears)

paddle shoulder buttons ---> side-by-side quad shoulder buttons

What I'd keep

The battery

The audio system

The gaming controls

The SD slots

The dedicated charging socket

That's pretty much my idea right now, not 100%, but pretty close.

Are you sticking with OMAP?

 

[thatgui]

USB host ---> USB-eSATA combo

This would require an additonal controller, which would draw extra power -> don't see usescases that justify the resources that have to be spent for it.

old screen ---> slightly bigger, higher res screen

maybe a little bit more outdoor friendly

chiclet keyboard ---> The keyboard from the iCP2 (with backlighting) (if its actually as good as It appears)

please no, I want a sane keyboard layout. I vote for putting hmc in charge for this
otherwise I can't agree more

maybe add an accelerometer and a gps chip ?

 

[vcoleiro1]

Is OMAP5 even happening?.  Probably the right time to shift to a different chip anyway given the TI announcement. You'd have to wonder even if they do launch it, how much support will you get for an end of line item .

 

[urjaman]

I'd say from the perspective of helping in designing something with electronics (I'm mostly a coder, but I have drawn schematics for work too):

- accelerometer would be easy to add even to the current pandora design (put that http://www.digikey.fi/product-detail/en/BMA222/828-1025-1-ND/2676528 to the I2C bus with the nubs) and cost about 2€ per device - and take a small amount of PCB space, not bad. Also useful as an input method in games => I guess actually worth it for the target audience.

- GPS is a totally different beast in price. Expect about 10-35€ more expensive device if you add a GPS module (eg. the GP-2106 is small but 50 USD (38€) for us normal people to boy in singles from sparkfun vs dx.com sells some GPS chips for 15 USD ... that is about the range).. I'm not so sure if GPS would be enough useful for the target audience.

EDIT: BUT i just figured out that the GP-2106 would be really easy (from an almost-EE perspective mind you) to interface to the ext port ... hmm...