So...Will there ever be a Pandora 2?

[Grench]

IMHO:  The key to making a 'Pandora 2' or 'Dragonbox' or 'Phred' is to keep the development costs as low as possible.

IMHO that approach would be utter folly.


Money spent on prototyping and developing can lead to huge savings & a better product later on. One of the mistakes of the Pandora project was not to spend enough on these aspects. (If proper prototyping had been done with P1 then the problems of mass RMA's with the nubs & LCD cables could have been avoided etc.)


Lets look at a couple of potential but entirely hypothetical goals for the Dragonfly project :


1) Sell units at $500


2) Sell 10,000 units to cover design / development costs.


That would generate income of $5 million


To me a spend of $250,000 on software / driver development, Hardware design & prototyping would be entirely reasonable and would equate to $25 per unit sold. That amount does not really strike me as unreasonable.

You do understand that you took that one line of my post entirely out of context, right?  My whole point is that  we don't HAVE to do an expensive hardware design and prototyping for a whole new product phase when we already have a perfectly functional set of plastics.

From the Pandora 1 history, the motherboard design was knocked out pretty quickly.  Yes there were some revisions, but overall, it wasn't what lead to a 2+ year wait.  It was the plastics.  Making them fit perfectly (top/bottom/screen fit) and mechanically (trigger buttons) was a constant tripping point resulting in weeks of back and forth delays.

The nubs caused an issue early on - but they're great now.

The keymat is -excellent-.

The battery is more than ample.

So why start over with a completely new set of design issues and revisions on -everything-?

Keep what's working (case plastics, design, battery, audio, keymat, nubs, stylus, SD slots, etc...).  Replace what doesn't (WiFi?).  Upgrade what is out of spec (motherboard, more RAM, CPU, video subsystem).  It is a lot shorter road to travel than a complete redesign.

I don't think you could start from scratch and develop an entirely new system for $250K.  More likely in the $500K+ range.  I don't see that happening.

 

[Mr_Loon]

Apologies Grench, I hadn't quite understood you were essentially referring to your 'incremental' idea.

I can't see an incremental approach happening.

This is due to the fact that Craig wants nothing to do with a Pandora2. Any Pandora successor will come from OP GmbH.

OP GmbH do not own the design (case or circuit board) for P1.

I agree that the incremental concept would work if OP Ltd wanted to produce a P1.5 but IMHO it's time to move on, time to fly, Dragonfly.

 

[Grench]

Apologies Grench, I hadn't quite understood you were essentially referring to your 'incremental' idea.


I can't see an incremental approach happening.


This is due to the fact that Craig wants nothing to do with a Pandora2. Any Pandora successor will come from OP GmbH.


OP GmbH do not own the design (case or circuit board) for P1.


I agree that the incremental concept would work if OP Ltd wanted to produce a P1.5 but IMHO it's time to move on, time to fly, Dragonfly.

No worries - I can see where you might have gotten confused.

I don't see Craig as being needed.  If I understand it right, MWeston owns the circuit board design and DaveC owns the case design for the P1.  ED should be able to work directly with the two of them if he wants to create an incremental P2 P1.5 or Phred.  To my understanding, Craig doesn't own any of the IP - so it would be very difficult for him to get in the way.

Regardless of the name, I think it is a viable alternative that would have a much faster path to market and lower development time & costs to starting over.

Each and every component, every piece of plastic, every tweak to one piece that requires a tweak to the others would have to be worked on your Dragonfly concept.  That is a huge undertaking by comparison - much like the original design of the P1 only more so as there are tighter specification requirements for what you've shown in the concept.

We'll see if anyone has the stomach for 'doing it again'.  The 1Ghz Pandora may very well be the end of the line.  I'm tempted to buy a 2nd one and store it away so I have parts.  I may be using it for a long time to come.

 

[asimov-solensan]

May I ask where this gossip about Craig not interested in a Pandora 2 comes from? It's only a rumor or he really said such a thing.

 

[Nintendo]

http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php/topic/12176-has-anybody-received-a-refund-from-openpandora-ltd-craigs-in-2013/?p=229458

 

[Silent-Hunter]

I'd buy a Pandora 2/Dragonscale/Dragonbox.

Maybe try to use a hinge that doesn't get so floppy after a while.

 

[Tenka]

And a metal casing.  I would waste so much money on a full metal case for a Pandora 1 or 2.

Also I still think that a dragon name is both too much of a shout out and too much of a frequented search term.  I hope that at least its surname could be Myriad, because that idea came to me in a warm pinching stab and I sort of imagine myself as having that sort of power despite giving so little.

 

[andmaz777]

All we need is upgraded CPU, GPU and RAM - significantly faster!


The case, keyboard even the screen is the charm of the Pandora, yes a bigger screen would be great but not at the cost of case designs that take many months to perfect.


Keep the price no more than £500 retail.

 

[Binky]

Why would we keep the keyboard when the iCP2 team have already designed a (purportedly) better one?

The semi-metal case design from the iCP2 could also be carried over

 

[ShleeDragon]

Why would we keep the keyboard when the iCP2 team have already designed a (purportedly) better one?

The semi-metal case design from the iCP2 could also be carried over

That's the thing... We know Craig has the ability to create something with his team (If the iCP2 actually ships and doesn't suck).

and there has been "word" and gossip about the Pandora 2 for years.... Craig has mentioned the iCP2 success would lead to the P2... and he's told people previously that the pre-production has started.

I just don't know how much is true and If he's decided to leave, taking his bat and ball with him, what will happen with his work.

 

[Binky]

I believe the iCP2 designs belong to the hardware devs, and have been licensed to Craig

Is there any indication that DaveC, MWeston &co wouldn't let ED produce a product from the same (or similar) designs?

 

[ShleeDragon]

I believe the iCP2 designs belong to the hardware devs, and have been licensed to Craig

Is there any indication that DaveC, MWeston &co wouldn't let ED produce a product from the same (or similar) designs?

Sounds like a question for EvilDragon to answer.

 

[Avversario]

What I'm really interested in is will there be an upgrade to the current 1 GHz Pandora soon? I mean single core 1 GHz processor is the same thing that is installed in an iPad 2 and nobody makes top devices nowadays with single-core processors. I'm still going to get my Pandora in a couple or so of months but some hardware seems a bit outdated.

 

[Binky]

The OMAP3 line only ever went up to 1GHz 512MB - Improving on that would mean a circuit board redesign, lots of software hassle and wouldn't be worth it

The next hardware upgrade will be the P2 if it ever happens. The most likely contender for that is the OMAP5,  which is a 2+2core 2GHz SOC

 

[leathco]

As much as I want a Pandora 2, with EvilDragons and Craigs recent animosity, plus all the stress and problems involved with the original, I don't see a Pandora 2 arriving without outside help.  Right now I am either hoping Evil Dragon changes his mind and goes for a Pandora 2, DragonFly, whatever, or they add the GCW guys to the mix to have them help make a higher powered pocketable FULL LINUX (instead of Dingux) computer.  Thats part of the appeal of the Pandora for me, the fact that its a true computer platform.  The PND system is a thing of beauty as well, and needs to come back.  I'm really hoping we see another high powered full keyboard linux PC the size of a DS in the future.

Til then I can play with my new CC era Pandora til I think about getting a 1 GHZ or upgrade mine to the newer one (that won't be for a while though).  I am thankful we got what we have, and I feel it still has a lot of life left in it.

 

[2bit]

I do not see a need for a pandora 2 or dragonfly until LATE 2015 or mid 2016 at the earliest as the Pandora one seems to just be hitting its stride software wise .

 

[Binky]

Has anyone realised that this is a serious possibility?

GCW may be able to buy Atari, and may work with ED on a pandora successor B)

 

[Avversario]

As much as I want a Pandora 2, with EvilDragons and Craigs recent animosity, plus all the stress and problems involved with the original, I don't see a Pandora 2 arriving without outside help. Right now I am either hoping Evil Dragon changes his mind and goes for a Pandora 2, DragonFly, whatever, or they add the GCW guys to the mix to have them help make a higher powered pocketable FULL LINUX (instead of Dingux) computer.

But didn't Craig said that there surely won't be a new Pandora? And BTW how can he prevent a new Pandora from release?
Moreover as I understand this is quite an unofficial part of the forum. So, do we have an official statement from ED about his plans to release P2, Dragonfly (I really like that name) or whatever sometime?

 

[Null]

http://b.elezea.com/post/7089076793/betteridges-law-of-headlines-is-an-adage-that


I'd be happy to be proved wrong though.

 

[cuetzpalin]

I'm pretty sure most of the community members are interested in seeing a Pandora 2-like device happening.

Kickstarter is a great way to know if there's enough market for it to be made without losing money... Basically the idea of pre-orders for the pandora was similar, but they didn't have the experience they have now, and obviously a lot of mistakes were done that led to the huge losses everyone in the team had with Pandora 1.

But let's think about it:

They managed to bring to life an amazingly unique product, with pretty much no experience... Just imagine what they can do now with all the experience they got.

I'm pretty sure they could not only make profit for the Pandora 2 but also compensate their losses for Pandora 1.

There's no hurry though... Pandora 1 still has life for a couple of years or so, I think.