Screen for P2

[Grench]

A lot of people like 16:9, and in the beginning i was agreeing with that. But, since one of the main features of the pandora is emulation... isn't most emulation done in 4:3?

But what will the next Pandora be emulating?  The existing Pandora emulated the whole gambit of 4:3 TV consoles from 15-25 years ago.

The next one should be emulating 16:9 consoles, playing high def movies, performing PC duties, etc...  Think 7-15 year old consoles.  16:9 starts to make more sense.

 

[TrashyMG]

A lot of people like 16:9, and in the beginning i was agreeing with that. But, since one of the main features of the pandora is emulation... isn't most emulation done in 4:3?

The Pandora isn't a emulation only device, many people forget that. Personally I don't often use emulators on my Pandora(s) and when I do use emulators I don't mind the widescreen as long as the image is scaled properly and that is fairly easy to do on all the emulators. Also the only way to have a 4:3 screen on something the same size of the Pandora would be to shrink the screen(essentially making it equivalent to scaling on a widescreen) or make the device ridiculously wider if you want a decent sized screen.

 

[_wb_]

I don't care that much about resolution as long as it's at least 800x480.

I care more about all the other specs.

Screen area: The Pandora screen is 4.3" diagonal, 93.6x56.16mm active area, 100.6x68.45mm total area. The Pandora itself is 140x83mm. I basically want the largest possible screen that fits in the lid area of the Pandora.

Response time (i.e. non-ghosting): the Pandora screen has a Tr+Tf response time of 30ms, which is too much imo.

Contrast ratio: the Pandora screen has 280:1 min, 400:1 typical. Good enough for me, but more is always better.

Luminance: the Pandora screen has 250 min, 300 typical (cd/m^2). That's enough for me.

Color depth: the Pandora screen has full 24 bit color, many LCDs still have only 18 bit.

Power consumption:

- The Pandora TFT LCD panel itself consumes 120mW typical, 150mW max.

- The Pandora backlight consumes 528mW typical, 680mW max.

If we want to have a chance of achieving the same great battery life in the P2, the power consumption of the screen will be critical.

Touch: I don't care that much about touch, but I'd prefer something that has both precision (i.e. stylus) and multi-touch. It's not that important to me though; I wouldn't mind having a screen without touch.

Daylight visibility: Something like e-Ink or PixelQi screens would be cool, but I guess this means a huge trade-off with all other features (most notably response time and color depth), not to mention that there are only 10" and 7" PixelQi screens available, which is too big for a pocket clamshell imo.

Availability:

We want a screen that exists, has a likelihood of remaining available for some time, and can be bought in relatively low quantities.

Taking all that into account, I'd prefer something like the screen of the Samsung Galaxy Note

(http://www.panelook.com/AMS529HA01_SAMSUNG_5.3_OLED_overview_15220.html).

• Size is 5.3" diagonal, 114x71mm active area, so that's quite good (I would prefer it a bit wider though).
• Resolution of 1280x800 is more than enough, even though this is RGBG so only the green pixels really have that resolution; it's still 1.77 times as many subpixels as we have now (1280x720x2 vs 800x480x3), for a screen area that is 1.55 times larger (81.4 cm^2 vs 52.6 cm^2), and given that the green subpixels are actually the most important ones for human perception, the perceived pixel density should be better than that of the Pandora screen by a noticeable factor.  The Galaxy Note II has the same resolution but in true RGB, so maybe we should take that one (but I couldn't find it on panelook.com).
• Response time is excellent because it's AMOLED, not LCD (response time of ~1 ms instead of 20-40ms with LCD).
• Contrast ratio is excellent (10000:1).
• Luminance and color depth are as with the Pandora, which is nice.
• Power consumption: couldn't find any numbers, but should be good, since it doesn't have a backlight: black pixels don't consume power here. This is a nice property, e.g. if you have black bands because you're emulating something with a squarer aspect ratio (or watching an even wider movie), those black bands are really black and they're not consuming power like on an LCD.
• Touch: it's capacitive multitouch with a stylus, so if we can use the same technology, that's the best of both worlds imo.

 

[Farox]

Good find _wb_

 

[zonova]

That screen is sort of amazing... wow. I don't know if this is the same thing, but i this is something i was looking at:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/mLMWXBv5rY4?feature=oembed

 

[Binky]

Why would the P2 need a flexible LCD?

 

[Franko]

Why would the P2 need a flexible LCD?

It certainly wouldn't "need" it if the next-gen Pandora stays with the current clam-shell form factor.  BUT....what if it did have a rollable (mentioned in the video) OLED (or e-ink) screen?  You could have just one, closed component now - the iCP2 with the main pcb inside and the screen could unspool from a spindle on the side.  Even a flexible screen would be cool, because it could wrap (and snap) around to the bottom edge to create a "tablet" look as well.  I could probably Photoshop up some rudimentary ideas to better illustrate what I mean.


Also, being flexible, very thin and requiring no backlight, it'd be ideal for a future Pandora anyway.  It could bend over the iCP2 buttons and snap close on the "front of the unit" - the back of the OLED screen would protect the keyboard and would add almost nothing (size-wise) to the actual dimensions of the device.

Edit1:  Bottomline, this type of screen would actually save us valuable space - our future Pandora could be even smaller and more functional.

 

[Binky]

^ that idea spells t. r. o. u. b. l. e.

 

[zonova]

I don't think we need one, i just thought it looked very interesting. And i think that something like what they show at about 1:50 would be extremely cool.

 

[Franko]

^ that idea spells t. r. o. u. b. l. e.

Well, that goes for a lot of my suggestions.   :lol:  


I'm mostly "dreaming" here - I don't worry too much about my own "pie-in-the-sky" approach to things on the "Pandora2 Spam" thread.  I'm being half-serious, and sometimes I'm thinking "out loud" here.


Certainly the e-ink spindle idea is problematic.  I'd stay away from that (rollable/spindle idea) until the technology evolves further.  I do think that the flexible OLED tech could mature nicely in the next 1-2 years though.  Here's a (very) rough sketch ---->

http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/SD4EVR/media/oled_inprogress.jpg.html

Now it might not even need to be "wrapped" even.  Maybe the part that gets "snapped" to the facing only needs to be a flexible plastic/rubber...and the video cable will be flexible (like the existing one bends a little), so the screen itself doesn't have to flex much.  I still think that the screen being thinner, having better power-consumption (no backlighting) and being flexible due to it's nature will give it MORE durability and not less - no more smashed glass/screens.  It's the future of portable devices.


That being said, if the screens just aren't available (in the proper size and quantities) when the OP Team is ready for the next-gen device, then so be it.  I'm really happy with the device that I currently have.  An improved SOC and slightly better screen (that fits within the current lid) would also please me.  Just move the speakers a bit...


....anyway, like I said - I'm just thinking out loud, and this is the place to do it.  

 

[Binky]

....anyway, like I said - I'm just thinking out loud, and this is the place to do it.  

quote++

My problem is that I ran out of stupid-but-cool P2 concepts when I was a newb here and am ending up as something of a old fogey.

Carry on!

 

[Franko]

  No worries, Binky.  I've been enjoying your ideas and sketches for a while.  It's good to dream, and to expand your horizons a bit.  I try to keep up with current technology and believe it or not, this website is full of great links to cutting-edge tech advancements.  It's a testament to a very knowledgeable and aware community.  Kudos to zonova as well.  We're all in the same boat here - we want a superior and worthy successor to the Pandora.  Heck, it's already "available" in three flavors...the CC, GC Rebirth and 1GHz version.

 Physically, a lot of us are trying to decide if the P2 (for lack of a better name) should use the current casing or not.  If so, then that inhibits the "dreaming" a bit.  I read a thread that Grench started a few months ago, and he was for an incremental change for the "P2", and I mostly agree with his assessments IF we don't have the iCP2 to draw upon and IF we won't even have certain "band members" support on things.  That will determine a LOT...IMO.  I'm almost sure that a kickstarter campaign will be the way to go.

I'm sure that our voices will be heard and that ideas will be bantered around - if there ever is a P2.  It's just that critical pcb decisions need to be made and size constraints are real...so I'd understand if 2 full-size SD slots lost out to a singular micro-SD one.  I'd not be too happy, but maybe in practical usage, I wouldn't care that much.  I don't do that much disk swapping right now anyway...

I'm happy and proud to be a member of a forward-thinking community.  Let's make this work.  

 

[vcoleiro1]

Is there a power consumption comparison we can draw upon to compare 1080p vs 720p screens?.

Seems everyone wrote off 5" 1080p screens based on an assumed greatly increased power need, however, there are now smartphones on the market  to draw some real data from.  Haven't been following them, but perhaps someone has?

 

[Binky]

One point in support of having a 'fullHD' is that, should the P2 continue in production for 5 years, it would be slower to look out of date.

The longer it stays as the current model, the more dev work will go into it (maybe)

Having said that, high-res screens require more processor power to drive, reducing graphics performance

 

[_wb_]

Here's an article about (AM)OLED vs LCD: http://www.phonearena.com/news/Smartphone-Displays---AMOLED-vs-LCD_id13824

I'm starting to get convinced that the P2 should have an (AM)OLED screen...

Higher power consumption for white areas? Not that much of an issue for me, I prefer bright text on a dark background anyway. For non-white stuff (i.e. everything but black-on-white eBooks and websites), the power consumption seems to be at least as good as the best LCD screens out there, and for relatively dark stuff (i.e. most games and movies, and my terminal), the power consumption is significantly better.

More contrast and way faster response time (no ghosting at all): yes please!

 

[zonova]

I agree, AMOLED seems amazing.

 

[Franko]

Okay, I've returned with a slight twist which might be my most insane idea yet - but check it out.

This is a very rough sketch that I doodled during lunch.----->  

http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/SD4EVR/media/20130416173234_00001.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

This is a way that we can get an even bigger screen area (when the "bendable" OLED screen is unfurled), whilst still retaining the same dimensions as the current Pandora1.  Let me all know what you think....  If the drawings aren't clear, then feel free to ask any questions...and I've obviously not touched upon some of the potential pitfalls of such an idea yet.  Just "dreaming" once again...

 

[Exophase]

Also getting the feeling AMOLED is the way to go. There's a reason that's what Sony went for with Vita.

 

[Franko]

Okay, I have a dumb question...  HOW do you paste a picture in here so that others can see it without having to click on links (to Photobucket, Flicker etc)?  I swear that I see people posting pics here all of the time.  Don't worry - they'll always be tasteful and technical in nature - I'm no pervert.    

I'm just convinced that less people will see what I'm trying to convey if they have to go through additional steps...

Help?

 

[Franko]

Well, until I get some advice, I'll just offer up a few words in explanation - hopefully they'll be descriptive enough to convey my thoughts.  Keep in mind that I'm referring to my latest hair-brained idea/sketch.  Now, imagine this theoretical (~5.5"x7.5"~) flexible (AM)OLED screen, with three potential video modes.

First you have the more compact, "laptop mode" where only the upper half (3.25"x5.5") area is utilized for the display.  The lower "half" is still "on" I suppose, but it's black pixels (thus using less power) - and it's tucked underneath the base of the Pandora2 anyway.  Second, you have a big-screen "landscape" mode where the whole 5.5"x7.5" screen is utilized.  It might rest in a bezel, or be tethered somehow on the side with two strong wires that rotate and extend from the sides of the base - not sure yet on that one.  Lastly you could have the big screen "vertical" mode, where the screen juts up from the back (7'5" tall).  I'm going to assume that these screens are lightweight at this point...LOL.  It could be supported on the sides with the same "wires" that I was thinking of earlier.  This mode would be ideal for vertical scrolling games (portrait orientation) like that MAME 1942 game - there are quite a few others.  The drawback to the current system we have is that you either get a tiny viewable image (2.25"x1.75" with a lot of unitilized screen on the sides) OR you get a full screen on it's side and using the nubs/keyboard is almost impossible to use intuitively.

So anyways...just like gyroscopes in cellphones are used to flip the viewing orientation, so could this technology be used in the Pandora2's screen.  If there is no room to place it in the panel "housing" and no good way to send the proper signals back to the base's frame buffer, then just utilize a small script that rotates the image's orientation on the screen.  I read a few week's ago in another thread where some tech-guru was messing around with the current Pandora's frame buffer and was able to rotate the video image 180 degrees just by typing in a few characters.  He was giving technical advice to a person in the Navy (who was stationed on a submarine) and wanted to play games upside-down from his bunk.     I have to say that was one of the most interesting requests that I've ever read.

As it would appear, I'm rambling on again, so I'm going just going to say - Thanks for reading this...whoever you are.  

-Franko