Q: Warranty At 800Mhz?

[BaDToaD]

i may think about putting everything i did so far under a restrictive license, that should make at least the pnd/pxml system useless for some time.

Firstly, I'm sure it was just heat of the moment stuff. I think Craig shows great control considering the shit that's flung at him. He's bound to flip out now and again.

Secondly, I'm sure it's heat of the moment stuff with you too Vimacs. At least I hope so. If you cancel your order and any work you've done so far you'll be hurting yourself and the community much more than Craig.

Many of us would be able to use the Pandora without pnd functionality but many wouldn't and those are the people that would suffer the most.

I think this thread has gone too far. Eveyone should just take a deep breath and come back when they've chilled out. We all over react sometimes and it's the way that you deal with that later that shows your true character.

 

[PhonicUK]

Holy balls, all this flaming was certainly not what I had in mind when I started this thread Had I known I would have probably not bothered and just PM'ed ED/Craig directly...

Can we have the thread locked please?

 

[Miner49er]

Hey ladies, chill out!

Craig was a tad rude but I can understand him losing it - Imagine the pressure he must be under with 4000 retro-gaming fanatics demanding information on their toy!

To me it's simple:

1. If you break your Pandora (or any device) by using outside of it's spec then it's your fault and you deserve all you get.
2. If the OP guys once said it was cool to OC but now are saying otherwise - GIVE THEM A BREAK! I like to think of myself (and all first-batchers) as part of the OP team in a (very small) kind of a way and we should accept a slightly bumpy ride.

Aah, maybe I'm just too easy going but I couldn't give a toss if I can't overclock the damn thing....

 

[PhonicUK]

The only real issue that's been mentioned but not formally answered, is what happens if you overclock (But don't damage it from overclocking) and then the hinge or something unrelated breaks?

Many manufacturers wouldn't fix the unrelated issue because you have voided your warranty, many of the better ones of course recognise that this is an unrelated manufacturing fault and will fix it.

I know that the OPanda team have an enormous amount on their plates at the moment (And an awful amount of stress too!), but if we could have but a few words with a explanation on where they stand with such things; I (and others I suspect) would be most grateful

 

[pcklee123]

Where I live, room temperature is typically 32C. Does that mean that the warranty is void?

 

[intense_mc]

A part of me is actually happy that Vimacs made that post since I really feel Craig needs to change his attitude toward his customers (our trust in Craig and this project made it happen; let's not forget that, in one sense of the word, we're also investors in this project...). The rest of us could complain (and have) all we want about Craig's attitude, but few of us have the authority/power/leverage to make Craig give a hoot. However, it seems Vimacs has some much-needed leverage/power to put Craig in check.

With that said...*starts microwaving popcorn*

I agree that it was an over-reaction but what mali said would make my blood boil too - he basically said that he lied to get a new product which in my books is criminal. It's one thing keeping it to yourself, but saying it, ON THE BOARDS PUBLICLY is arrogance! You're inadvertedly (or purposely) telling others: "Don't worry, if you mess up your pandora by OC'ing, don't tell Pandora and they'll give you a new one" which is i.e. condoning fraud.

Maybe I wouldn't have said what Craig said but if you said that to my customer base for a product I put my money on the line with, you'd at least get a damn good verbal ass kicking from me.

 

[Vlynndar]

I agree that it was an over-reaction but what mali said would make my blood boil too - he basically said that he lied to get a new product which in my books is criminal.

I'm not going to get involved more, but how I read it was that he sent it up, saying nothing more than "It's broken" and they sent him a replacement.

 

[Squidge]

Can we have the thread locked please?

If it gets locked, I think someone will likely re-open a very similar thread asking exactly the same question as they are unhappy with the answer in this one. Might as well let this one run it's course.

I think it ends up as this:
If you damage the processor by overclocking/overvolting then thats your fault, and you'll need to buy another PCB.
If you overclock and something else happens, like the USB host socket falls off, then that will be covered by warranty, as it's obviously not related to the overclocking.

We need to remember that warranty is for manufacturing defects - the processor dieing by trying to run it at 900Mhz isn't a defect, as the speed is meant to be 600Mhz max (by default the system runs it at 500Mhz).

Secondly, on the dev boards, 900Mhz was only attainable by using OPP3 value, and thus drastically reducing the life of the OMAP. Therefore, you should stay under 700Mhz.

 

[mali]

I agree that it was an over-reaction but what mali said would make my blood boil too - he basically said that he lied to get a new product which in my books is criminal.

I'm not going to get involved more, but how I read it was that he sent it up, saying nothing more than "It's broken" and they sent him a replacement.

^This.

Also when I posted my own blood was already boiling, but my way of venting is obviously less apparent.

 

[intense_mc]

I agree that it was an over-reaction but what mali said would make my blood boil too - he basically said that he lied to get a new product which in my books is criminal.

I'm not going to get involved more, but how I read it was that he sent it up, saying nothing more than "It's broken" and they sent him a replacement.

Nobody will be able to tell if you overclocked it or not, thus it's a non-issue

_If_ it fails, you can either tell them you overclocked or you don't. It depends on you altruism coefficient. I got a replacement motherboard from Asus for my A600, because I didn't tell them.

 

[Azure]

It's different when you consider a small company like OpenPandora, yes, but when it comes to "stealing" from big corporations...many of us are criminals (I sincerely doubt everybody here owns a physical copy of every game we have emulated on our GP32, GP2X, etc...). We all have different moral values; in my opinion, whether you're a "criminal" or not isn't so black & white.

EDIT: There's also a very fine line between saying false information and not saying anything at all. I guess that's where the altruism coefficient comes in. It's not being honest, but it's also not being dishonest...if that makes any sense (It's nearly 5 a.m. here and time to hit the sack, so it's a possibility that none of this makes sense, so please excuse me if that's the case.).

 

[mali]

intense_mc, they didn't ask me.

edit:
Yep, I have my own moral. If the lady from across the street loses her pension while walking across the street, I do everything to get it back to her. If a large corporation doesn't ask I won't write them a letter how terribly sorry I am for breaking their device. That's life, ranging from the whitest white to the darkest black. We are all grey in one way or the other. If a community project needs help I help. If the boss sees it differently, he has to live with the consequences, nothing more nothing less. If you treat people well, they will be thankful. The longer this project continues the way it does, the more the community and the company split. Who doesn't see this is blind.

 

[notaz]

The OS allows you to both adjust the speed of the processor, and adjust the voltage of the processor.

Just to be clear, current kernel doesn't allow to change OPP (or voltage) by hand, so at least the default OS won't allow you to overvoltage.

 

[gruso]

Interesting Notaz, thanks.

As for everything else going on in this thread, can it just be water under the bridge now? It's a real shame to see mali being attacked from all sides over one post. He's one of the most friendly and helpful community members we have in this subforum.

 

[scottm]

So are we saying its okay to overclock in software (this is within warranty) and the worst that can happen is it will crash if pushed too high. But if you physically adjust something like the voltage - then this will invalidate your warranty. I'd be happy with this scenario - as I certainly don't intend to adjust the hardware. I'm sure many of the team involved in the development of the Pandora have said its okay to (software) overclock in the past, and it would only (at worst) shorten the lifespan of the chip - but still well outside the 1 years manfucturers warranty?

 

[mali]

Interesting Notaz, thanks.

As for everything else going on in this thread, can it just be water under the bridge now? It's a real shame to see mali being attacked from all sides over one post. He's one of the most friendly and helpful community members we have in this subforum.

You can't imagine how much your post means to me...

 

[borgqueenx]

yes, mali is a very nice member that is not trying to piss off anyone IMO.
Also, almost all of his post contain helpful information for everyone.

These are simple misunderstandings, make up with each other and forget the past.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

@BackAssward
Didn't want to post, but this hasn't todo much with Craig anyway, so I just go ahead. You Sir have a problem with your reading comprehension. I didn't lie about that damn PocketPC. So if they fix it, it's their problem. I don't give a fuck about a random big corporation. Just to fix your comprehension, the example of that Asus warranty was to make a certain point I explained. Is my English so bad that you can't understand? If you piss your customers off, they'll rather come to your house and kick you off your roof instead of giving a shit about some altruism, when they know the boss spits on your back as soon as you turn around. ED is a freaking hero in my opinion and he is a nice person to the bone, so whatever happens, I'll stay a proud Pandorian and do what I can to help.

Since you edited your post where you said you have no problem lying, but liked that others were truthful. I guess you are a coward. You change your words when you know they bite you in the ass. Perhaps others here might believe your edit, but we both know what you posted.

Edit: Revisionist History, the last effort by someone who can't admit they acted stupidly. Good luck with that, I won't be the only one who notices.

no one likes you

Interesting Notaz, thanks.

As for everything else going on in this thread, can it just be water under the bridge now? It's a real shame to see mali being attacked from all sides over one post. He's one of the most friendly and helpful community members we have in this subforum.

What? There was only one or two people 'attacking' him. not everyone is slobbering all over oP and its team anymore, get used to it.

 

[Kyo]

Woah. I expect to read about a legit question and instead find out Craigix has gone and pissed off from what I understand (from my little time here) is one of the major contributors to the project.

This is not good.

From Craigix:

So you're a dishonest little shit too?

I want your order number. You are banned from having a Pandora from us.

That's right, your order is canceled.

Respectfully, craigix, this is not how to address customers-- dishonest or not. I grew up in a family pizza business. One day my father received a call from someone who had found hair on their pizza. They brought in the pizza with two slices left and obvious pet-hair trimmings placed upon it. Visibly enraged but calm, my father remade their order, smiled, apologized, and handed it over. I was puzzled. I asked him why he didn't refuse them, and he told me it was better to lose the food cost on one pizza than to have the guy running around telling everyone how terrible our service was because we wouldn't replace his order.

The point is, by cancelling someone's order for the sole reason that you think they're going to be dishonest, you are alienating a potential customer, dishonest or not. In the business world, Craig, one dishonest alienated customer turns into several lost customers who may be honest enough to make up for his dishonesty thousandfold.

Please, for the sake of your corporation, revise your business practice. I am shaking in my boots knowing that the fate of my money lies within your whims and irrelevant personal enjoyment of what people say on the forums.

a million times this. If you worked at nintendo, or mcdonalds, or sony or wherever, craig. And you saw someone putting a hair in their burger, you'd still get fired if you caled them a dishonest little shit. This is just not something you do. It's immature and uncalled for, regardless of what mali said or did. You're not the only kid in school who has an xbox and can decide who gets to play it or not, you're leading a business. I am appalled by how immature you are handling this. I really want a pandora, but unless you, Craig, go or change, I'm never going to buy one. Tree house mentality.


BTW; why do I get warned when I say shit, not even addressing anyone, but if Craig does it it's fine?

 

[Creature XL]

Undervolting can cause just as much damage as overvolting.

I recall hearing about some guy undervolting his P4. His heatsink got clogged with dust after a while, and it overheated, damaging the CPU internals. There was a pretty big debate on overclock.net, and the conclusion was overvolting and undervolting have the same risk. You're messing with delicate internals when you do it, and you don't know how power is managed inside these little chips.

Most people that overvolt will at least look after their hardware - clean out the heatsink, etc.

In my experience, overclocked & overvolted CPUs have longer lifespans than CPUs destined for Dell machines.

I don't buy this. The risk of undervolting is that the chip just won't work. It generating more heat seems to violate the laws of thermodynamics. Sounds like his heatsink loosing effectiveness was the real problem here.

For what it's worth, my CPU was accidentally running at 80+C for probably well over a year (heatsink not properly applied, Intel's new design pisses me off), and it's still fine. Of course I have since rectified the problem.

Assuming it's a true story, and I understand it, my guess would be that undervolting it caused the CPU to run much cooler, which allowed the fan to operate at lower speed for longer periods, which allowed more dust to collect in a shorter period of time until the fan finally seized up completely, and even that cooler running CPU eventually climbed to critical without any ventilation.

So? What does it have to do with anything?
Its the fault of the fan collecting dust. Well, then show me the fan in the Pandora and you get a price.
And to the rest of you, you are all so pathetic.
finally i found all teh people in the world who tell the policemen that they had one beer before the accident.
(here I consider laws where you are ALLOWED to drive after, say, 2 beers.) Most sane people would say: "I haven't drunk nuttin', sir!"
Same story with Pandora and the rest of the universe. If you are that stupid, to tell them you overclocked it then you should get your warranty cancelled.
Here applies the same thing to the driving example: Maybe the accident would have happened when you were sober. Maybe the Pandora would be damaged without OCing?

The problem of the Pandora Project is that it hit "the masses". As it was planed and the real first orderes knew what they were doing when ordering the Pandora. Now we have so many newbies which never saw a GP32 or GP2x and have no clues what is going on.

BTW, has anybody had considered the warranty when setting the CPU speed to 220 on the GP2x?


PS:
If CraigiX thinks i am dishonest little shit, well, so be it. I haven't ordered with him.


PPSS:
Look how angry you all made me. Normally its not my style, however, it fits the thread.