Q: Warranty At 800Mhz?

[rabidpoobear]

OMGs Craigs we used to bes best of frends but nao i am enraged and applaled at tha way you treated your comunity members!! i thaut u wer bettar than that! it sover for us! good=bye!

whatn's your ordern umber?

How is that a concern on yours? Yes, we all see that you're mocking his writing style.

Crunchwrap was kidding too. Have you seen his other posts?

 

[LastPucho]

Pleas tell me you weren't serious there.
Canceling, or threatening to do so, someone order who may have trusted you with 300$ for over a year just is a nogo.
Also, calling someone a "dishonest little shit" is a banable offense to the forum guidelines in my opinion.
You should relay have some more respect for people who placed so much trust in you and/or the project.

IF you relay where serious here consider my order canceled and any work done by me on the pandora os stopped.
Also if you continue to treat customers in such a way i may think about putting everything i did so far under a restrictive license, that should make at least the pnd/pxml system useless for some time.

Pleas tell me you weren't serious there.

But... wouldn't that be a penalty upon the community instead of upon Craig? I mean... he was the one supossedly acting like an arse (if he was serious)... not us...

 

[kingoddball]

OMGs Craigs we used to bes best of frends but nao i am enraged and applaled at tha way you treated your comunity members!! i thaut u wer bettar than that! it sover for us! good=bye!

whatn's your ordern umber?

How is that a concern on yours? Yes, we all see that you're mocking his writing style.

Crunchwrap was kidding too. Have you seen his other posts?

I know it was a joke, but seems unnecessary.
A lot of people are quite pissed off and seems as though the warranty issue has got people worked up (plus certain comments), and the fact that OP have removed all references of OC'ing (in the last few weeks/months) from websites doesn't help. I purchased/pre ordered mine because it (at that point) was a fact that high OC's were fine, just not guaranteed that you'll reach a speed that high. (Official site - up to 50% OC to 900mhz).

 

[Kramy]

Undervolt shoudl never be a problem.
OC should never be a problem, not really, in an ARM chip with adequate venting/etc.
OVervolting is asking for trouble. I'm not sure what warranties are like for other companies, but overvolting seems often not covered, and is actively prevented in many cpus

Undervolting can cause just as much damage as overvolting.

I recall hearing about some guy undervolting his P4. His heatsink got clogged with dust after a while, and it overheated, damaging the CPU internals. There was a pretty big debate on overclock.net, and the conclusion was overvolting and undervolting have the same risk. You're messing with delicate internals when you do it, and you don't know how power is managed inside these little chips.

Most people that overvolt will at least look after their hardware - clean out the heatsink, etc.

In my experience, overclocked & overvolted CPUs have longer lifespans than CPUs destined for Dell machines.

 

[rabidpoobear]

I know it was a joke, but seems unnecessary.
A lot of people are quite pissed off and seems as though the warranty issue has got people worked up (plus certain comments), and the fact that OP have removed all references of OC'ing (in the last few weeks/months) from websites doesn't help. I purchased/pre ordered mine because it (at that point) was a fact that high OC's were fine, just not guaranteed that you'll reach a speed that high. (Official site - up to 50% OC to 900mhz).

Everyone's getting really worked up. Just trying to divert it a little. I'd rather you be mad at me than Craig.

Basically what happened was that originally they were having pretty good luck overclocking to 900 mhz but since TI started binning they are afraid that the next order won't overclock as much. 600+ just means it's overclockable. As long as it can be overclocked to 610 they're safe as far as marketing goes. They don't claim 900mhz and they've always had a disclaimer "up to 900mhz" and "some units may not reach this." The first batch was from before TI started binning so it's likely that yours will be able to be overclocked, but the ones after that may or may not, depending if TI is binning the slower chips or certifying the faster chips.

As far as I can tell, Craig has not said that it's nto covered by warranty. He made one post to that effect, but said "Fine, are you happy now??" which basically implies that he is kidding. IF he makes a completely serious statement that it's not covered, then it's not, but until then, it's all just speculation and hurt feelings.

 

[PhillipJ]

I recall hearing about some guy undervolting his P4. His heatsink got clogged with dust after a while, and it overheated, damaging the CPU internals.

DoubleYou Tee Eff? How exactly did the undervolting cause dust to get into his heatsink? Did you mean to write: "some guy never looked inside his case and so didn't notice that his CPU fan seized up and had disabled overtemp warnings/shutdown in BIOS then when his CPU died he blamed it on the dust that had built up. And also he undervolted."

 

[Exophase]

Undervolting can cause just as much damage as overvolting.

I recall hearing about some guy undervolting his P4. His heatsink got clogged with dust after a while, and it overheated, damaging the CPU internals. There was a pretty big debate on overclock.net, and the conclusion was overvolting and undervolting have the same risk. You're messing with delicate internals when you do it, and you don't know how power is managed inside these little chips.

Most people that overvolt will at least look after their hardware - clean out the heatsink, etc.

In my experience, overclocked & overvolted CPUs have longer lifespans than CPUs destined for Dell machines.

I don't buy this. The risk of undervolting is that the chip just won't work. It generating more heat seems to violate the laws of thermodynamics. Sounds like his heatsink loosing effectiveness was the real problem here.

For what it's worth, my CPU was accidentally running at 80+C for probably well over a year (heatsink not properly applied, Intel's new design pisses me off), and it's still fine. Of course I have since rectified the problem.

 

[Kramy]

I recall hearing about some guy undervolting his P4. His heatsink got clogged with dust after a while, and it overheated, damaging the CPU internals.

DoubleYou Tee Eff? How exactly did the undervolting cause dust to get into his heatsink? Did you mean to write: "some guy never looked inside his case and so didn't notice that his CPU fan seized up and had disabled overtemp warnings/shutdown in BIOS then when his CPU died he blamed it on the dust that had built up. And also he undervolted."

No. It died at a lower than average temperature. Never even hit the BIOS shutdown temp. Mind you, those old P4's would still run fine at 90C.

Look at it this way - since I'm confident neither of us understands chip power regulation or the internals of a CPU - eating tons of food is bad for you, and not eating food is also bad for you.

Edit: Could've been a P4 specific thing. I've never heard anything bad about undervolting AMD CPUs or laptop CPUs. New Intel CPUs have Speedstep, which by definition undervolts. I'm guessing it was some issue with the design of the P4.

 

[PhillipJ]

Well, based on your couple of posts on this matter I'm confident that you don't understand how voltage is related transistor degradation at all. I'm no expert on the matter but it's safe to say that your food analogy is pretty flawed. Think of it like this: If you put 400 Amperes through a piece of speaker wire it'll probably melt or catch fire. Put zero Amperes though it and nothing happens. Obviously your speaker wire isn't very useful with no current but it's sure as hell not broken.

 

[atomicthumbs]

This thread confuses me. It's like the Mirror Universe in here

Edit:

Craig should post a self-pic in this thread so we can see if he has a beard

 

[roberthoward45]

If something voids the warranty then don't do it

 

[Username]

If something voids the warranty then don't do it

Dear lord why hadn't anyone thought of this before? EVERYONE SHOULD FOLLOW THE EXAMPLE OF THIS MAN!!!

 

[kingoddball]

Hahahaha. Bizaro World!

 

[Kramy]

Well, based on your couple of posts on this matter I'm confident that you don't understand how voltage is related transistor degradation at all. I'm no expert on the matter but it's safe to say that your food analogy is pretty flawed. Think of it like this: If you put 400 Amperes through a piece of speaker wire it'll probably melt or catch fire. Put zero Amperes though it and nothing happens. Obviously your speaker wire isn't very useful with no current but it's sure as hell not broken.

You're assuming the power is equally distributed around inside the CPU.

There wouldn't have been a huge debate over it if it was a complete myth. There must be something P4 specific that's triggered by not enough volts. What it is, I have no clue.

 

[Sphinxter]

You are all so canceled.

 

[Elanzer]

Every computer I've owned in 10 years has been overclocked, and also computers I've built for other people. None of them damaged and some are 8 years old and still running in relative households, still being put to use -entirely- because they're overclocked (without it, they're too slow). I even overclock my laptop WHILE undervolting, it runs cooler and has better battery life with the +400mhz overclock+undervolt than it does at stock speeds. I've even run my Linksys WRT54GL router overclocked from 200mhz to 250mhz for a very long time without any issue, uptime on it is regularly 200+ days before I reboot it for the odd firmware update.

The main cause of a dead CPU has always either been heat, or a power surge from a blown power supply that goes through and also damages the mobo/cpu, modern cpus with internal thermal throttling are very hard to damage with just overclocking at all (voltage is different because of electro-migration damage it can cause), older x86 CPUs without internal throttling when heat is a threat (ie: athlon XP and below, pentium 3 and below) can cook themselves if a fan fails/gets clogged/heatsink falls off while overclocked, but those CPUs will also kill themselves at stock speeds under the same conditions.

Heat is removed from the equation from the CPU in the Pandora the only remaining threat is going to be voltages, and without a hardware mod with soldering resistors to the PCB (if it's even possible to overvolt the Cortex-A8 CPU in this way) the options of increasing CPU voltage are going to be very limited in the Pandora afaik.

You would be more worried about the wifi chip cooking itself than the A8 cpu being cooked by overclocking, and that's not something to worry about.

 

[WizardStan]

Undervolting can cause just as much damage as overvolting.

I recall hearing about some guy undervolting his P4. His heatsink got clogged with dust after a while, and it overheated, damaging the CPU internals. There was a pretty big debate on overclock.net, and the conclusion was overvolting and undervolting have the same risk. You're messing with delicate internals when you do it, and you don't know how power is managed inside these little chips.

Most people that overvolt will at least look after their hardware - clean out the heatsink, etc.

In my experience, overclocked & overvolted CPUs have longer lifespans than CPUs destined for Dell machines.

I don't buy this. The risk of undervolting is that the chip just won't work. It generating more heat seems to violate the laws of thermodynamics. Sounds like his heatsink loosing effectiveness was the real problem here.

For what it's worth, my CPU was accidentally running at 80+C for probably well over a year (heatsink not properly applied, Intel's new design pisses me off), and it's still fine. Of course I have since rectified the problem.

Assuming it's a true story, and I understand it, my guess would be that undervolting it caused the CPU to run much cooler, which allowed the fan to operate at lower speed for longer periods, which allowed more dust to collect in a shorter period of time until the fan finally seized up completely, and even that cooler running CPU eventually climbed to critical without any ventilation.

 

[Elanzer]

Assuming it's a true story, and I understand it, my guess would be that undervolting it caused the CPU to run much cooler, which allowed the fan to operate at lower speed for longer periods, which allowed more dust to collect in a shorter period of time until the fan finally seized up completely, and even that cooler running CPU eventually climbed to critical without any ventilation.

Doesn't make much sense, faster fans suck in dust faster. Having a fan run slower generally makes a heatsink take longer to clog.

 

[DaveC]

I would think that overclocking DOES in fact create more heat.

We do know that OC uses more power. Also laws of thermodynamics apply here since energy can't be created or destroyed, so where is all of this extra battery power going that is used up by the CPU? It must be heat, and heat kills. The question is how much more heat is given off and how much will it damage the CPU when OC.

I even overclock my laptop WHILE undervolting, it runs cooler and has better battery life with the +400mhz overclock+undervolt than it does at stock speeds. I've even run my Linksys WRT54GL router overclocked from 200mhz to 250mhz for a very long time without any issue, uptime on it is regularly 200+ days before I reboot it for the odd firmware update.

Well to get more OC speed while undervolting must mean the amp draw (current ) goes up. You are drawing more power when OC with less volts so you are really pumping current through it, that sounds just as bad for CPU longevity. (power = watts= voltage x current so if you lower the volts the current draw rises to get the same energy)

 

[MDave]

I would think that overclocking DOES in fact create more heat.

We do know that OC uses more power. Also laws of thermodynamics apply here since energy can't be created or destroyed, so where is all of this extra battery power going that is used up by the CPU? It must be heat, and heat kills. The question is how much more heat is given off and how much will it damage the CPU when OC.

Already been said in this thread: http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?/topic/52134-q-warranty-at-800mhz/page__view__findpost__p__817714