Q: Warranty At 800Mhz?

[borgqueenx]

craig needs to come here. everyone gets mad and angry around this thread. or close it down.

 

[WizardStan]

Respectfully, craigix, this is not how to address customers-- dishonest or not. I grew up in a family pizza business. One day my father received a call from someone who had found hair on their pizza. They brought in the pizza with two slices left and obvious pet-hair trimmings placed upon it. Visibly enraged but calm, my father remade their order, smiled, apologized, and handed it over. I was puzzled. I asked him why he didn't refuse them, and he told me it was better to lose the food cost on one pizza than to have the guy running around telling everyone how terrible our service was because we wouldn't replace his order.

I'm sorry, but that is wrong. Your father doesn't understand his legal rights, and may actually have made things worse. If he had refused and the person spread word around town, that's slander. Helllooooo lawsuit, or at least arrest. By remaking the pizza, however, he not only told the Sucky Customer that he could get away with the cheating so he will do so again, but they can then claim illness due to the original pizza which your father had admitted was bad; Helllooooo lawsuit, against you this time. It obviously didn't happen, but you never know when it will.
Craig may have been a little overharsh, maybe he was totally wrong, but the correct answer isn't to bend over and let jerks tell you how to run your business. I've watched businesses fold because they were afraid of offending customers and threw away so much profit in discounts and replacements, and seen others thrive which stood up to customers making stupid requests, but I have never seen a company go out of business from false "poor service" complaints.

 

[Magic Sam]

Hi,

If you damage the processor by overclocking/overvolting then thats your fault, and you'll need to buy another PCB.
If you overclock and something else happens, like the USB host socket falls off, then that will be covered by warranty, as it's obviously not related to the overclocking.

We need to remember that warranty is for manufacturing defects - the processor dieing by trying to run it at 900Mhz isn't a defect, as the speed is meant to be 600Mhz max (by default the system runs it at 500Mhz).

Secondly, on the dev boards, 900Mhz was only attainable by using OPP3 value, and thus drastically reducing the life of the OMAP. Therefore, you should stay under 700Mhz.

I understand that the system runs underclocked @ 500MHz to save battery life, but TI says its default speed is 720MHz, not 600Mhz max...

http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/omap3530.html

And I do remember very clearly that some time ago the OP team said the console could easily reach 800MHz, maybe even 900MHz, then I don't see why it would void the warranty.

It would be like selling a Ferrari to someone then telling the customer he voids his warranty if he drives @ 250KMh and the engine explodes...

Or was it another lie to sell the Pandora, like the "it has 1GB of RAM" crap ?

I feel the "most powerful gaming handheld there is" myth vanishing away...I am very disappointed by all this, and I'm not even talking about Craig's behaviour...

Bye, Magic Sam

 

[WizardStan]

So? What does it have to do with anything?
Its the fault of the fan collecting dust. Well, then show me the fan in the Pandora and you get a price.

The Pandora doesn't have a fan. That particular conversation had absolutely nothing to do with the Pandora directly. One person said "you can't cause damage by undervolting", another said "actually, there's this story about a guy who undervolted his PC and did damage" which no one understood, hence why I tried to explain my interpretation. No one said the Pandora specifically could be damaged by undervolting, just that it was possible in at least one case in a way that no one would have ever thought, and it shouldn't be considered to be perfectly safe in the Pandora either because there might be something else that no one has thought of that could damage it. Changing the voltage, either up or down, is out of spec, and neither should be assumed to be safe.

 

[mali]

craig needs to come here. everyone gets mad and angry around this thread. or close it down.

It's unlikely that Craig will respond. Having back my patience and thinking about what happened in this thread, I see much clearer now. We should all give Craig time to recover. I apologize for having started the mess. I apologize for the greater good, not because I feel guilty. I don't know if such an apology is worth anything but whatever. I hope we find a new topic soon, to distract ourselves from this crap that happened.

One thing should be clear, though. I won't step aside one single milimetre from doing what I think is best. And I'm still waiting for an answer on that AMEX issue, btw.

 

[moxie]

Legal rights is one thing. What actually works in practice is another. Even though said father might perfectly well be in the right to tell the customer to stuff it, and in the right to sue the customer for slander later, he will still go into liquidation. Nobody buys from the pizza shop who calls their customers "dishonest shits", and nobody buys from the pizza shop where complainers get sued for slander.

 

[Kyo]

I doubt Craig will respond. He'll probably read, but not respond. Unless someone easy to prove wrong posts.

 

[WizardStan]

I understand that the system runs underclocked @ 500MHz to save battery life, but TI says its default speed is 720MHz, not 600Mhz max...

The 720 are different parts from the 600. They have two different part numbers.

And I do remember very clearly that some time ago the OP team said the console could easily reach 800MHz, maybe even 900MHz, then I don't see why it would void the warranty.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

It would be like selling a Ferrari to someone then telling the customer he voids his warranty if he drives @ 250KMh and the engine explodes...

I've never heard of a road that goes that fast. That would clearly be outside of standard usage and probably would void the warranty. Why wouldn't it?

Or was it another lie to sell the Pandora, like the "it has 1GB of RAM" crap ?

That was "clever" marketing. It was 1Gb (lowercase B) of RAM, one gigaBIT, which is only 128 megabytes. It wasn't a lie, just misdirection, and Craig was already blasted for it way back when.

 

[Magic Sam]

BTW; why do I get warned when I say shit, not even addressing anyone, but if Craig does it it's fine?

+ 1 ! Craig MUST be banned for his language, or it would mean that some members here are above the rules...

 

[mali]

That was "clever" marketing.

Hah, thanks for this
When you apply "clever" marketing, accept "clever" customers

+ 1 ! Craig MUST be banned for his language, or it would mean that some members here are above the rules...

Then the boards would be empty :lol:

 

[borgqueenx]

i think the best option is to close this thread. but i can remember moderator names. please pm moderator and ask for lock.
To prevent futher flaming and misunderstandings.
Just ask a moderator to read the thread to, and inform craig that mali is not an arse, and everything just went wrong.
check the posts of mali!

That would be the best harmless solution.

I dont know if craig is someone who will apologise. It could also be he just thought everyone knew he was being sarcastic and he pressed the reply button.

But sending a defective pandora to craig and lying about how it broke is also a not really nice solution mali.
In this way i also think you should apologise.

But dont apologise if you dont mean any shit of it, its no use at all.

But....let just lock this topic.

 

[WizardStan]

Legal rights is one thing. What actually works in practice is another. Even though said father might perfectly well be in the right to tell the customer to stuff it, and in the right to sue the customer for slander later, he will still go into liquidation. Nobody buys from the pizza shop who calls their customers "dishonest shits", and nobody buys from the pizza shop where complainers get sued for slander.

There are ways of refusing service without calling someone a "dishonest shit", you know. A little diplomacy works wonders sometimes.
You wouldn't actually have to sue for slander either, only the subtle threat would have to be there. "I'm gonna tell everyone you make crap pizza!" "Great, that's slander, see you in court next month then?" And then neither of you ever see each other again. Sucky Customers are bullies. They will threaten and bluster and get away with everything they can, but stand up to them and they rarely follow through. Oh, sometimes they might call corporate if you're a chain, but then it's head offices problem if they want to refund the guy, not yours.
Find me a company that went out of business because of false service claims, and I'll show you five that went out of business with literal "the customer is ALWAYS right" policies.

 

[RobertJ]

Can I just say, this thread delivers.

The time I've spent waiting for my Pandora has been long, but threads like this, and "will the Pandora work with my USB hamster?" have really kept me entertained!

 

[craigix]

I'm not selling a Pandora to someone who might break it from overclocking, send it back and just say it is broken even though he knows fine well he broke it though his own actions. He has already admitted to doing this to another company, almost gloating that 'they can't tell'.

So that will cost us one Pandora. That's over $330. You might think 'so what, Craig is rich' the Pandora has made him millions, I don't care about companies, blah blah... if you do think like that I suggest you cancel your order now, and go and buy a PSP2 or something similar.

 

[borgqueenx]

I'm not selling a Pandora to someone who might break it from overclocking, send it back and just say it is broken even though he knows fine well he broke it though his own actions. He has already admitted to doing this to another company, almost gloating that 'they can't tell'.

So that will cost us one Pandora. That's over $330. You might think 'so what, Craig is rich' the Pandora has made him millions, I don't care about companies, blah blah... if you do think like that I suggest you cancel your order now, and go and buy a PSP2 or something similar.

yes, mali should apologise for that matter. But your words are not really suitable for the leader of a company...

look up his posts like i said before...and see how helpful he has been for the whole comnmunity.

 

[mali]

But sending a defective pandora to craig and lying about how it broke is also a not really nice solution mali.
In this way i also think you should apologise.

But dont apologise if you dont mean any shit of it, its no use at all.

OK, now that we know that overclocking voids the warranty, don't lie about it when it breaks. If you feel misled by clever marketing, thinking for 1.5 years that it would be ok to overclock, apply your own scale of morale. I can't bend my opinion. Just imagine the huge bang if this information would only have been revealed after shipping. gp32x on fire, I tell you, and Craig hidden in his basement.

 

[mali]

I'm not selling a Pandora to someone who might break it from overclocking, send it back and just say it is broken even though he knows fine well he broke it though his own actions. He has already admitted to doing this to another company, almost gloating that 'they can't tell'.

So that will cost us one Pandora. That's over $330. You might think 'so what, Craig is rich' the Pandora has made him millions, I don't care about companies, blah blah... if you do think like that I suggest you cancel your order now, and go and buy a PSP2 or something similar.

Nice to meet you Craig
Now is the opportunity to get this stuff off the table. When did you intend to reveal that overclocking voids warranty?

 

[Kyo]

I'm not selling a Pandora to someone who might break it from overclocking, send it back and just say it is broken even though he knows fine well he broke it though his own actions. He has already admitted to doing this to another company, almost gloating that 'they can't tell'.

So that will cost us one Pandora. That's over $330. You might think 'so what, Craig is rich' the Pandora has made him millions, I don't care about companies, blah blah... if you do think like that I suggest you cancel your order now, and go and buy a PSP2 or something similar.

Wow, awesome. You totally didn't completely miss the point there. If anyone should be careful calling people "dishonest shits", then it's you craig. It's not about canceling his preorder, it's about how you're doing it.

 

[Critical_Impact]

I'm not selling a Pandora to someone who might break it from overclocking, send it back and just say it is broken even though he knows fine well he broke it though his own actions. He has already admitted to doing this to another company, almost gloating that 'they can't tell'.

So that will cost us one Pandora. That's over $330. You might think 'so what, Craig is rich' the Pandora has made him millions, I don't care about companies, blah blah... if you do think like that I suggest you cancel your order now, and go and buy a PSP2 or something similar.

Here's a question, if you do break it overclocking it or doing something stupid, can we get it repaired or at least parts of it replaced for a fee?

Would suck if you broke your pandora then couldnt get one until batch 2 shipped.

 

[craigix]

Okay so if we do any overclocking in software, without changing the voltages this will no matter what, even if it isn't the cause of any problems, void our warranty?

Nobody will be able to tell if you overclocked it or not, thus it's a non-issue

_If_ it fails, you can either tell them you overclocked or you don't. It depends on you altruism coefficient. I got a replacement motherboard from Asus for my A600, because I didn't tell them.

So you're a dishonest little shit too?

I want your order number. You are banned from having a Pandora from us.

That's right, your order is canceled.

I uhh... don't think he's a first batcher

That's great news, and even better - he never will be!

Pleas tell me you weren't serious there.
Canceling, or threatening to do so, someone order who may have trusted you with 300$ for over a year just is a nogo.
Also, calling someone a "dishonest little shit" is a bannable offense to the forum guidelines in my opinion.
You should really have some more respect for people who placed so much trust in you and/or the project.

IF you relay where serious here consider my order canceled and any work done by me on the pandora os stopped.
Also if you continue to treat customers in such a way i may think about putting everything i did so far under a restrictive license, that should make at least the pnd/pxml system useless for some time.

Pleas tell me you weren't serious there.

Being able to hold a threat such as that over us isn't acceptable for the customers / future of the project. What's your order number?