Q: Warranty At 800Mhz?

[PhillipJ]

Well to get more OC speed while undervolting must mean the amp draw (current ) goes up. You are drawing more power when OC with less volts so you are really pumping current through it, that sounds just as bad for CPU longevity. (power = watts= voltage x current so if you lower the volts the current draw rises to get the same energy)

I don't think that's quite right since switching a transistor isn't the same as driving an electric motor for example. You have your CPU clock which tells how fast to switch and your CPU voltage which drives the switching. Higher CPU voltage just allows your transistors to switch faster. Undervolting without underclocking is likely to cause instabilities as the transistors can't switch as fast as the clock is telling them to but it won't make power use go up. In fact, the primary power saving measure on Core 2 CPUs (yes Craig, I know, ARM != x86) is to reduce core voltage and clockspeed when CPU load is low. The A8 does something similar, reducing clock speed and voltage when demand is low.

 

[WizardStan]

I would think that overclocking DOES in fact create more heat.

We do know that OC uses more power. Also laws of thermodynamics apply here since energy can't be created or destroyed, so where is all of this extra battery power going that is used up by the CPU? It must be heat, and heat kills. The question is how much more heat is given off and how much will it damage the CPU when OC.

The extra energy could be going towards the work of flipping the transistors. Work is a form of energy too. Heat would only be the excess energy, which may be the result of an inefficient design.
Imagine batting a ball back and forth between your hands on the floor. Then you bat it with twice as much energy so it moves from one hand to the other twice as fast. There's probably some extra heat generated by the ball rolling on the floor, or transferred from hand to ball to hand, but probably not noticeable. This is an efficient design.
Now replace the ball with a wooden block. It takes a lot more energy to get the block from one hand to the next because most of the energy is lost to friction, which directly converts to heat. Double the speed, it takes a lot more energy which is, again, converted into more heat by friction. This is an inefficient design.
Now replace the floor with sandpaper. This is a very inefficient design.
Now replace the floor with lava. You have to stand on stuff and escape to the door or the lava WILL BURN YOU!

 

[Alpha2]

Now replace the floor with lava. You have to stand on stuff and escape to the door or the lava WILL BURN YOU!

It was worth reading 10 pages of stuff I'll never truly understand just to read that.

 

[akarolick]

I know he posted several pages back but... Thanks Squidge that would be great!

 

[Awakening]

While perhaps not stated in clear text the Pandora have been put forward as an overclock friendly device by many team members and would be legally binding at least by Swedish consumer laws, this is because the consumers have been made to understand that overclocking is risk free and allowed by warranty before the purchase. By Swedish law it is also not possible for the seller to make any changes to what he is selling after making the offer to sell, nor take his offer back.

Overclock friendly it is. And Overclock per definition means "run it out of spec". This in turn means it's NEVER covered by warranty. Not even here in Sweden. That said, a low power chip, that gets a 25% frequency bump isn't going to get hot enough to damage it self. As have been stated earlier, it will become unstable, and crash way b4 it can hurt it self.

If I had my law book around I could quote you some Swedish consumer laws. From the way the Pandora has been marketed, by Swedish law I would even be entitled to a repair or replacement if it didn't overclock sufficiently.

 

[Pleng]

Pleas tell me you weren't serious there.
Canceling, or threatening to do so, someone order who may have trusted you with 300$ for over a year just is a nogo.
Also, calling someone a "dishonest little shit" is a banable offense to the forum guidelines in my opinion.
You should relay have some more respect for people who placed so much trust in you and/or the project.

IF you relay where serious here consider my order canceled and any work done by me on the pandora os stopped.
Also if you continue to treat customers in such a way i may think about putting everything i did so far under a restrictive license, that should make at least the pnd/pxml system useless for some time.

Pleas tell me you weren't serious there.

But... wouldn't that be a penalty upon the community instead of upon Craig? I mean... he was the one supossedly acting like an arse (if he was serious)... not us...

That's life. You can't pull out the 'you should continue to work with an arse or you're punishing the community' card here.

Maybe people will now see what serious damage Craig's attitude can do to the community. I've already known people abandon possible Pandora-related projects due to the fact that they just wouldn't want to do business with somebody who acts as unprofessionally as Craig, but there was no tangible evidence for others to see. Now he's managed to p*ss Vimacs off so much that the entire system developed for installing and running apps is under threat.

As for expecting Craig to say he wasn't serious, well that's close enough to an admission of guilt, apology, whatever for it to be pretty unlikely to happen. Craig doesn't do those.

We can only hope that even without Craigs intervention that Vimacs calms (edit: sp- thanks rabidpoobear!) down a bit and decides to at least not put PND/PXML under a restrictive license. I can't honestly say I would blame him if that weren't the case (ie he does proceed with the restriction)

 

[rabidpoobear]

We can only hope that even without Craigs intervention that Vimacs clams down a bit

Yes I think it would really help if everyone takes a deep breath and clams down a bit.

 

[fearofshorts]

... WHAT THE HELL ARE THOSE?!
QUICK, KILL THEM WITH FIRE!

 

[torpor]

Craig: needs to learn to be a bit more professional in the way he deals with people. Perhaps in his everyday life its okay to insult people, belittle them, and threaten them, but in the big bad world such actions usually don't get you far. Seems to me Craig needs to have a little timeout in the corner, without any toys and no dinner, for a while. Maybe spoiled brats get away with such behaviour, but civilized members of our society simply do not.

Vimacs: its well within your rights to restrict the license of the work you've done for the Pandora so far, but I hope you will reconsider, because I for one am quite excited to see libPnd go into effective use within the larger community. Count me in the disappointed crowd if you do decide to punish Craig this way.

 

[kingoddball]

Maybe we all need some good news about the Pandora.. Well at least I do. I'd love to hear that the Mass Production of cases has fully started (not just someone saying they're back at work or something)...

 

[Kramy]

Craig would make a fine cussing redneck.

 

[Balzac2m]

People, be reasonable.
Breaking your pandora voids the warranty. If the cpu dies due to overclocking, you can't expect a replacement.
If you overclock an your headphone plug falls off, you can expect a warranty. At least that's the way EvilDragon handled stuff like that in the past.

In my opinion it is reasonable to expect that most CPUs will perform the same way, so if breaking your pandora by OC is possible, you'll learn on the forums about it.

 

[BackAssward]

@BackAssward
You should try to keep the order of posts in mind and understand what they mean and why they were posted. Each post in English is still a PITA for me as it takes long.
The sentence where I said being vague has its price says it all. What I mean is, if you don't tell people the facts without needing footnotes to understand what it means, you have to live with the fact that you move away from them and the likeliness to act positively towards the company decreases.

You can chose to spin your posts how you like... the fact is:

- You admit to doing non-standard things that have destroyed things in the past.
- You admit that you have no problem lying about it to get a warranty replacement in the past.
- You have told another that even if they overclock and destroy the board, it is easy to lie and get a warranty replacement, since you already have.
- You have indicated you would do the same again.

It's not a stretch to infer that you would do the same if you buggerd the device another way, lied about it, to get a warranty replacement. You have not only addmited you have no problem lieing to get one, but also told others they could too.

If I was a manufacturer who had read that, I would tell you I didn't want your business... as Craigix did... stop pretending that you didn't post these things right in front of the manufacturer. My original post has a lot of explanation, should I quote it here?

Don't pretend you didn't make a few unwise posts, or try to shrug off the consequences. You might be a young guy, and maybe that's the problem. However, if I was Craigix, I would have responded the same. Perhaps with more reason why, but if I was the manufacturer, given what you said, I would say I didn't want your business.

Okay so if we do any overclocking in software, without changing the voltages this will no matter what, even if it isn't the cause of any problems, void our warranty?

Nobody will be able to tell if you overclocked it or not, thus it's a non-issue

_If_ it fails, you can either tell them you overclocked or you don't. It depends on you altruism coefficient. I got a replacement motherboard from Asus for my A600, because I didn't tell them.

If someone is willing to do somethng non-standard, break it, and get a replacement... what stops them at overlocking? Maybe they open it up and static fry it, or touch the 'do not touch' part, or drop it in water, etc. The point is, once you admit to have broken a device in the past, lied about it, got a replacement, and stuck the manufacturer with the bill... and that you will do it again if it happens again (and tell others they can too), you pretty much boned yourself. Especially if the Manufacturer not only is active in the forum, but the friggen thread itself where you admit you would willing screw them over if you broke your device.

 

[Azure]

A part of me is actually happy that Vimacs made that post since I really feel Craig needs to change his attitude toward his customers (our trust in Craig and this project made it happen; let's not forget that, in one sense of the word, we're also investors in this project...). The rest of us could complain (and have) all we want about Craig's attitude, but few of us have the authority/power/leverage to make Craig give a hoot. However, it seems Vimacs has some much-needed leverage/power to put Craig in check.

With that said...*starts microwaving popcorn*

 

[mali]

@BackAssward
Didn't want to post, but this hasn't todo much with Craig anyway, so I just go ahead. You Sir have a problem with your reading comprehension. I didn't lie about that damn PocketPC. So if they fix it, it's their problem. I don't give a fuck about a random big corporation. Just to fix your comprehension, the example of that Asus warranty was to make a certain point I explained. Is my English so bad that you can't understand? If you piss your customers off, they'll rather come to your house and kick you off your roof instead of giving a shit about some altruism, when they know the boss spits on your back as soon as you turn around. ED is a freaking hero in my opinion and he is a nice person to the bone, so whatever happens, I'll stay a proud Pandorian and do what I can to help.

 

[BackAssward]

@BackAssward
Didn't want to post, but this hasn't todo much with Craig anyway, so I just go ahead. You Sir have a problem with your reading comprehension. I didn't lie about that damn PocketPC. So if they fix it, it's their problem. I don't give a fuck about a random big corporation. Just to fix your comprehension, the example of that Asus warranty was to make a certain point I explained. Is my English so bad that you can't understand? If you piss your customers off, they'll rather come to your house and kick you off your roof instead of giving a shit about some altruism, when they know the boss spits on your back as soon as you turn around. ED is a freaking hero in my opinion and he is a nice person to the bone, so whatever happens, I'll stay a proud Pandorian and do what I can to help.

Since you edited your post where you said you have no problem lying, but liked that others were truthful. I guess you are a coward. You change your words when you know they bite you in the ass. Perhaps others here might believe your edit, but we both know what you posted.

Edit: Revisionist History, the last effort by someone who can't admit they acted stupidly. Good luck with that, I won't be the only one who notices.

 

[mali]

Since you edited your post where you said you have no problem lying, but liked that others were truthful. I guess you are a coward. You change your words when you know they bite you in the ass. Perhaps others here might believe your edit, but we both know what you posted.

What?! Care to explain? which post, which words?
It's unbelievable that you have to use such disgusting methods to win an argument. I'm speachless. This shit sucks, you BackAssward can fuck off and I will have to recover from this.

 

[rabidpoobear]

@BackAssward
Didn't want to post, but this hasn't todo much with Craig anyway, so I just go ahead. You Sir have a problem with your reading comprehension. I didn't lie about that damn PocketPC. So if they fix it, it's their problem. I don't give a fuck about a random big corporation. Just to fix your comprehension, the example of that Asus warranty was to make a certain point I explained. Is my English so bad that you can't understand? If you piss your customers off, they'll rather come to your house and kick you off your roof instead of giving a shit about some altruism, when they know the boss spits on your back as soon as you turn around. ED is a freaking hero in my opinion and he is a nice person to the bone, so whatever happens, I'll stay a proud Pandorian and do what I can to help.

Since you edited your post where you said you have no problem lying, but liked that others were truthful. I guess you are a coward. You change your words when you know they bite you in the ass. Perhaps others here might believe your edit, but we both know what you posted.

Edit: Revisionist History, the last effort by someone who can't admit they acted stupidly. Good luck with that, I won't be the only one who notices.

Why do I sorta get the feeling that this is why the Spanish guys don't hang out with us anymore...

 

[Qwertyuiop]

Since you edited your post where you said you have no problem lying, but liked that others were truthful. I guess you are a coward. You change your words when you know they bite you in the ass. Perhaps others here might believe your edit, but we both know what you posted.

Edit: Revisionist History, the last effort by someone who can't admit they acted stupidly. Good luck with that, I won't be the only one who notices.

The only edits I see are just a few minutes after he posted, and he added in another quote to respond to. :huh:

 

[AquaAnalogue]

Woah. I expect to read about a legit question and instead find out Craigix has gone and pissed off from what I understand (from my little time here) is one of the major contributors to the project.

This is not good.

From Craigix:

So you're a dishonest little shit too?

I want your order number. You are banned from having a Pandora from us.

That's right, your order is canceled.

Respectfully, craigix, this is not how to address customers-- dishonest or not. I grew up in a family pizza business. One day my father received a call from someone who had found hair on their pizza. They brought in the pizza with two slices left and obvious pet-hair trimmings placed upon it. Visibly enraged but calm, my father remade their order, smiled, apologized, and handed it over. I was puzzled. I asked him why he didn't refuse them, and he told me it was better to lose the food cost on one pizza than to have the guy running around telling everyone how terrible our service was because we wouldn't replace his order.

The point is, by cancelling someone's order for the sole reason that you think they're going to be dishonest, you are alienating a potential customer, dishonest or not. In the business world, Craig, one dishonest alienated customer turns into several lost customers who may be honest enough to make up for his dishonesty thousandfold.

Please, for the sake of your corporation, revise your business practice. I am shaking in my boots knowing that the fate of my money lies within your whims and irrelevant personal enjoyment of what people say on the forums.