Production Pyra photos/videos/thoughts thread

[jakko]

Ok, I see. Still.. keeping the driver aside for a second, the extensions would need to be initialized to achieve the above quoted "tear-free" behavior of marco. To my understanding, in /var/log/Xorg.0.log there should be the lines:

Initializing extension DRI3​

Initializing extension Present​

The question is whether these extensions are initialized. If not, why (probably because of the driver). If yes, why tearing (probably because of the driver). I guess it leads to the answers daveshah already had given above. But it might be worth checking the initialization of the extensions.

 

[Silent-Hunter]

Does it matter if there's tearing in X11 as long as it's not in videos or games?

 

[EvilDragon]

Hm, AFAIR the Pandora was without any tearing in X11. How did it work there?

 

[matzesu]

Maybe, the Pandora Screen was allready Landscape whitout the Need for the Tiler, as at this time, a bit more devices where Landscape, but this is just a though from a Noob, I put once a new Graphic Card in my old Tower PC, and a new Fan, but this was everything im able to make on a Computer..

 

[daveshah]

I think the Pandora did have tearing in some X11 situations but not all of them. It was less noticeable because as @matzesu says, it wasn't using rotation so any tearing there was is a single horizontal line.

Whereas once you have a rotated screen any time things start tearing, the tearing is diagonal.

OpenGL stuff is generally tearing free, except occasionally for the first few columns of pixels at the left edge of the screen (anything running 4:3 is always tearing free as a result of this). But it will probably be easier to fully fix it for GL stuff than anything else.

 

[Haraldur]

Has there been any testing of Wayland vs X11? Regarding tearing, that is.

 

[daveshah]

I tested Wayland briefly on the uEVM and it was tearing free as it should be, I would expect the same on the Pyra. The downside is Wayland needs the 1.17 GPU drivers, which remove the WSEGl API that we need to make 3D+X11 work, and so offering a choice is a bit tricky at this stage. I'm not sure but this might even affect XWayland stuff doing 3D.

 

[docbroke]

Can we use multiple desktops, with Wayland for non-3d stuff and X11/framebuffer for games.

 

[daveshah]

No, it is the Wayland desktop itself (I have only tested Weston but I imagine other compositors would be the same) that need the new GPU drivers, at a minimum the newer GBM version that 1.17 provides.

 

[docbroke]

How about having multiple versions of GPU drivers installed and loaded as per need.

 

[daveshah]

Yes, that would be doable in a similar way to the Pandora. The other route is to find a way, probably some custom glue, to make the 1.17 drivers work with X11.

 

[Silent-Hunter]

What is the benefit of being able to use Wayland? I don't really like it. I imagine using GPU rendering for everything will drain the battery.

 

[levi]

It's how they do it under Android these days I believe (use the GPU even for rendering 2d surfaces that is). That's not a great case study for battery life of course mind you. But it's also newer and has left old cruft left in it versus X11.

 

[TrashyMG]

But it's also newer and has left old cruft left in it versus X11.

I thought we're here for the cruft....

 

[Silent-Hunter]

But I regularly use the cruft. Such as the network transparency. Wayland doesn't have features I use, like that.

 

[levi]

Yes that's the major downside of wayland. There are people working around that limitation but I haven't looked at what they're doing yet. Personally I learned to use the command line more powerfully, so that now I can do whatever I want on my faster machine over ssh and transfer the results for local playback.

 

[GizmoTheGreen]

don't xwayland work around most of it? such as running legacy apps inside wayland. afaik it just fakes an xserver for the app to draw to like it would any windows then wayland displays that.

I've only used gnome under wayland with good results so far, with gnomes mutter compositor.
(but gnome is going full sjw with their code of conduct, so I'm moving away from that stuff as soon as I can)

 

[daveshah]

I would like to see more Pictures im understand, and less Techtalk im not understand ^^,
But its daveshah ´s thread, so i am not alowed to expect anything ^^

Don't worry, there will be more photos when I'm a bit less bogged down by annoying kernel bugs

 

[TrashyMG]

Did a bit of Pruning of the off-topic discussion here, moved it into the offtopic section. Like to keep this thread clean for Daveshah.

 

[Grench]

@daveshah
I am likely to have a bit more time on my hands starting next week. Have things progressed to where it is worthwhile to write up step by step in order to have additional hands and eyes testing things?