Poll: Do You Like Keybord Font.

[clippa]

You sound suspiciously well informed...

I didn't touch her, your honor! I've had a few "give anime a chance" sessions, to see what I was missing out on. Everything I was recommended, without exception, was flimsy vapid tat. I'm bemused by it's popularity.

 

[multiplex]

The entire "compose vs non-compose" theme is really a non-issue. <_<

Just make the Fn a dual-function key.

Mode 1:: Press & hold Fn and then press second key - character/function indicated in blue appears/occurs.

Mode 2:: Press & let go Fn and the press second key - diacritics (local language char) shows. To exit from Mode 2 - re-press Fn.

Guys, this is trivial scheme and was used in countless devices... It just works. <_<


Hm. Any devices in particular you've tried this on? I'd be worried about having to slow down to make sure I got one or the other of the behaviours, and that you'd have to press two buttons at once, which can be difficult for some combos.
I'm pretty sure most of the layouts in the old keyboard threads were done with the assumption that the Fn key was sticky.

Anyway, I still like the compose key. Letting e.g. German users custom remap that to an umlaut dead key seems much more user friendly than other international users having to find some other unmarked keys for their own use. No marking is less confusing than wrong marking, at any rate.

If the keyboard won't type the characters you need per default, you have the double hurdle of changing keymaps and learning to type different keys than what's marked, which is seriously off-putting, especially for non-technical users.

But what do I know of the Pandora user base. Maybe 80% will ship to Germany. Do we know?

 

[Eolair]

Making the international Pandora version with characters for a few prioritised countries will more than likely be unpopular by anyone in a country that is left out. I can imagine that this will come up again and again by users and reviewers alike; "But why does it have spanish characters when it's missing the so essential x key?", "Why are there german characters but no french?", "I thought this was the international version", etc.

Really, I think the only way to make everyone happy is to have two versions. UK/US/International version and German/Spanish/Turkey version. Anyone want to guess which would sell most?

 

[morgushong]

I like it. Nice and big and easy to read letters

 

[xaim00]

Here is a refined layout of my previous, a bit better imo.

Brightness+ moved to Fn+start
Brightness- moved to Fn+select
Added sleep: Fn+Panda-key
Yen sign removed

This way international users (like me) will have 5 free keys, Fn+G,Z,X,C,V, to map special characters too. I don't think these character should be printed, everyone can map these as they see fit. 5 unmarked keys should be easy to keep track of I think.

 

[Bronek]

I'm from Sweden and here we need the special characters Å, Ä, Ö. However, I don't think any country specific characters should be included if it complicates the keyboard layout. Keep it simple please!

Here is the layout i would prefer. Punctuation and comma need there own keys imo.

If brightness keys are omitted, Fn+Z,X,C,V can potentially be used for special characters without messing with the layout.

very nice

You sound suspiciously well informed...

I didn't touch her, your honor! I've had a few "give anime a chance" sessions, to see what I was missing out on. Everything I was recommended, without exception, was flimsy vapid tat. I'm bemused by it's popularity.


you should see "Grave of the Fireflies".

 

[xaim00]

I will display my English-as-first-language bias and say that's a very nice layout! Perhaps Fn+C could be compose and Fn+V AltGr?

Thanks. A compose key on Fn+C might be a good idea. That will certainly solve the need for more keys. If we go this route I don't think compose combos should be printed on the keys though, that will make it to cluttered.

 

[hch]

I wouldn't use non-English charaters (apart from may be writing café or cliché and looking up world music acts), but I really don't care if they are on the keyboard. If anything, I think it would make it look a bit cooler and more international with them, so if ED wants them, he should put them on there!

i have to agree that e.g. the japanese characters on the zaurus were quite cool. but the question here is between programmer friendlieness and 'localization'. so for me, please print as much on the keys as you like, but for heavens sake, don't sacrifice an easily reachable | for a stupid umlaut or, even worse, the essential alt, altgr and ctrl keys for some vaguely useful character like ,. given the low total number of keys, i think it hould be obvious that modifyer keys are very central.

by the way, potentially stupid question, wouldn't it be ideal to map control keys to the xyab pad somehow?

 

[peca]

Here is a refined layout of my previous, a bit better imo.

Brightness+ moved to Fn+start
Brightness- moved to Fn+select
Added sleep: Fn+Panda-key
Yen sign removed

This way international users (like me) will have 5 free keys, Fn+G,Z,X,C,V, to map special characters too. I don't think these character should be printed, everyone can map these as they see fit. 5 unmarked keys should be easy to keep track of I think.

Quite good layout. But keep 3 middle keys (menu, select and start) clear. In previous discussion there was suggested ptrscr and sysrq (maybe break too).

AltGr can be make as "shift first and hold then fn key and then shift release and then press other key or release fn and then press key". We need sticky keys because without it will be thumb typing difficult.

I'll like get out all currency symbols and keep more keys without second label for user mapping. I'm afraid but I can't take time to think about it more. So if layout like this, I'll be satisfied. I guess that symbols for contrast and wifi can be omitted too, but like them.

--

CHAD or other OP team member: Can somebody commit that custom layout can be order (later) and how much it coast and what is minimum amount to realize custom layout? I'll bet my right hand that if ED's localized layout came, then bunch of as order some "universal US" alternative. Thanx.

by the way, potentially stupid question, wouldn't it be ideal to map control keys to the xyab pad somehow?

Yes. I previous discussions some of as want CTRL and ALT on shoulder button for good and fast thumb typing. It is a plane.

Thanks. A compose key on Fn+C might be a good idea. That will certainly solve the need for more keys. If we go this route I don't think compose combos should be printed on the keys though, that will make it to cluttered.

But Fn+V as AltGr don't work. It must be some "shift" like key. But compose and few of nenlabeled keys can help for national characters mapped to type with fn key.

 

[bartleby]

The German Spelling Reform of 1996 states that ä, ö, ü & ß should be written as ae, oe, ue and ss -- there is no need for the Germanic characters.

while the bit about the spelling reform is bs (well, in switzerland they actually did do away with the "ß" at some point, but not in austria or germany - and there is no way that either of us will let go of our beloved umlauts any time soon), i do agree with the last bit: i don't think we really need those characters on the pandora keyboard. that's speaking from a german-speaking point of view. i'm not sure about turkish though. in turkish, "ö" and "ü" might be even more important...

 

[xaim00]

Quite good layout. But keep 3 middle keys (menu, select and start) clear. In previous discussion there was suggested ptrscr and sysrq (maybe break too).

Thanks for the feedback.

What about this layout.

-Brightness keys moved back to Fn-Z,Fn+X.
-Currency symbols removed, but $ is still there.
-Sleep key removed. Not needed, lid sensor handle this.
-Compose key added, Fn+C.

This layout has 4 free keys, Fn+D,F,G,V. These can be mapped to any character the user desire. Additionally, the Compose key gives every key a fourth mapping.

 

[lulzfish]

You know, on most laptops, the brightness is Fn + Arrow keys. [Edit: As in the D-pad]
Is that not possible?

 

[xaim00]

I guess that is possible. In that case it leaves 6 unmapped keys, so if possible, it might be preferred.

 

[nikkopt]

That is the crux of the debate: if you can't support them all (you can't) why support any of them?
One more thing: in order to access the extra or accented characters, you'd need to hit a Fn key combo anyway, so why not just have the AltGr and/or Compose key and solve everyone's problem at once? It's intuitive what keys produce what accented character, so there's no need to print them on the keyboard. Save those Fn key combos for something that is more likely to be used globally, like extra puctuation or currencies.

*number pulled out of air and probably not accurate



I agree, if i'm able to make an "á" with the compose/altgr or whatever, then i prefer that the FN key is used for special symbols like / \ ( ) $ . , @ < >

 

[darkblu]

Yeah, I wanted to share with you my latest variant:

I made two changes here:
1. the top 1...0 row has the same Shift symbols is in normal keyboard, that is: !@#$%^&*()
2. ED has put brightness control on Fn+9 and Fn+0. So do I - on Fn+O and Fn+P, instead of F11 and F12 there.

+1 for this one. i particularly appreciate the fact the !@#$%^&*() are properly mapped - let's keep it as qwerty as possible, people!

(a native cyrillic typer here - and i'd never even think of bitching about the absence of cyrillic on this kbd)

 

[nikkopt]

Yeah, I wanted to share with you my latest variant:

I made two changes here:
1. the top 1...0 row has the same Shift symbols is in normal keyboard, that is: !@#$%^&*()
2. ED has put brightness control on Fn+9 and Fn+0. So do I - on Fn+O and Fn+P, instead of F11 and F12 there.

I like this too as well.. it gets perfect with some minor changes (like moving the brightness controls do the d-pad and some symbols to other places too..)

 

[MDave]

There is just one minor error with that layout, cosurgi. I don't think there is such a thing as F0

Otherwise, perfect.

 

[emcp]

for those few that are bitching about special characters and how everyone wants to exclude them

i just dont get you, we have to prioritise
get all the programming syntax easy to reach, you want more programmers right

plus, the only time i see a need for using such characters is an official piece of writing, if doing fn+a, is too awkward (i can understand),
but ffs is hitting f7 to awkward, use spellcheck and it should sort it all for you

and if your mate complains about you using a, instead of á (or watever) while your on IM, i think its best you stay away form him

also its a gaming device first, then a websurfer or handheld computer

 

[urjaman]

for those few that are bitching about special characters and how everyone wants to exclude them

i just dont get you, we have to prioritise
get all the programming syntax easy to reach, you want more programmers right

I do get "we have to prioritise", and I'm going to use the device for programming, too, so programming syntax easy is good for me.

plus, the only time i see a need for using such characters is an official piece of writing, if doing fn+a, is too awkward (i can understand),
but ffs is hitting f7 to awkward, use spellcheck and it should sort it all for you

I'm thinking that ä and ö (in finnish) (for my usage) are mostly needed in IM and email, but note that i can live with Fn-something, and it's not a problem if there's just a few keys (next to each other) with no Fn assigned by default, but then, it wouldn't hurt if it had the characters printed.

and if your mate complains about you using a, instead of á (or watever) while your on IM, i think its best you stay away form him

We'll, ä is a totally different letter (unique) than a, so it can cause misunderstandings if one IM's with ä=a.

also its a gaming device first, then a websurfer or handheld computer

For me it's 1st a media player, then an IM client/websurfing device, then an OTG linux computer, then a gaming device.

 

[nikkopt]

I'm thinking that ä and ö (in finnish) (for my usage) are mostly needed in IM and email, but note that i can live with Fn-something, and it's not a problem if there's just a few keys (next to each other) with no Fn assigned by default, but then, it wouldn't hurt if it had the characters printed.

and if your mate complains about you using a, instead of á (or watever) while your on IM, i think its best you stay away form him

We'll, ä is a totally different letter (unique) than a, so it can cause misunderstandings if one IM's with ä=a.


I understand you mate.. for me "ç" is also an unique letter. But in the same way i can get it with Compose/AltGr + , + c you can always get ä by pressing Compose/AltGr + : + a (either : or .., idk)