Poll: Do You Like Keybord Font.

[emcp]

i know that a is totally different than ä

but then again, the only time i can see someone getting confused is if theres two words, one that ends with ä and another a, if two totally different meanings, but then context comes into

i personally cant see anyone being to confused or fussed over a instead of ä, in IM
an official document or email also has spellcheck

btw i think its quite obvious that i dont use any of those characters, or languages so there might be a very few exceptions

but i think its been agreed by the community, punctuation first

 

[Caine]

Here are my latest versions.

Ctrl+Alt on keyboard

Ctrl + Alt on shoulders

Caine.

 

[salasq]

How about... we have a basic Latin qwerty with sensible punctuation printed.

MEANWHILE...

As the devices are being produced, devs give us guidelines (which buttons are off limits, which are set in stone, stuff like that) and the community provides layout configuration files (XKB?) for the big languagues / any languagues present for the bestest diacritical solution in each specific case.

Would give the peeps here (and on languague-specific boards) something to do. Community participation and stuff.

It's not as if we'll ever be able to fit a full QWERTZ on pandora's keyboard, for example

 

[Yigguth]

QUOTE
Yes! It's awesome!! [ 48 ]
No, I don't. [ 119 ]
I don't care what font it is! [ 71 ]


People who like it + people who don't care = 119
It's a tie

 

[nikkopt]

My possible choice:

Q,W and backspace still have empty spaces for a symbol or a letter like ä, ö , etc..

All the others are mapped

á é í ó ú = Fn + O + vowel

à è ì ò ù = Fn + A + Vowel

ã õ ñ = Fn + S + Letter

ç = Fn + P

I think all other symbols are there too..

 

[urjaman]

nikkopt: I mostly like that, there's a few notes:

- I'd move ins from Fn-0 to Shift-backspace and have F10 in it's current place
- F11 and F12 are missing (they could be fitted by doing the Ctrl and Alt to the R and L (gaming controls) and remapping some)
- In the same time, I'd like to have / (shell use) and . on the current places of Ctrl and Alt (as primary) (i don't care of what would be shift-them or fn-them (maybe \|,; in some order))
- I'd like if the free Fn-letter spaces were Fn-K and Fn-L

Ok, that's quite a lot of things...

 

[xaim00]

Grabbing some ideas here and there I've yet again revised my previous layout ( sorry, got a lot of spare time today ).

Changes:

- Compose key moved to Shift+Space.
- Brightness on D-pad.
- CTRL = Select, like in ED's layout.

This way we will have 7 unused keys that can be reached with a Fn combo, Fn+D,F,G,Z,X,C,V. This should be enough for country specific characters or other special characters without compromising layout.

Edit: spelling

 

[Vorporeal]

Keep in mind with these layouts that certain button combos (like Ctrl-Alt-Backspace or Ctrl-Alt-Delete or Ctrl-Alt-F#) should be fairly accessible. These are all important combinations in Linux, and we need to be able to do them somehow - I just hope it doesn't require jumping through hoops.

 

[GoodLawd]

@xaim00: +1 for that layout! But maybe ' and " need to be on D and F instead of H and J?

 

[RoboShmup]

Hello. I'm relatively new to this forum and this topic definitely piped my interest. I've carefully scrutinized every mock-up mentioned in this thread so far and thought I would give it a whirl.

Using my extremely professional skills in Microsoft Paint, I've made this mock-up of what I would consider the best layout for the keyboard. The two layouts previously posted that have stuck out the most to me were Cain's Ctrl + Alt on Shoulders and Cosurgi's Latest Design. I have respectfully made a fusion of both of their designs (hope you guys don't mind) and this is what I have come up with.

I have come to the conclusion that Compose and AltGr are absolutely vital for the pandora if it plans to be a successful international product, as well as having Ctrl and Alt on the shoulder buttons is the most efficient way to save key space and leave room for the unsatisfied to map extra keys.

So far it seems like Cosurgi has the best grasp on button placement (and I know he has previously made a mock-up with ctrl + alt on the shoulders), so I only made a few tweaks to his design. First of all, I placed Cain's idea to have the F11 and F12 on the face buttons to keep them relatively close to the other Fs and also used his (mostly aesthetic) layout for the top numerical row (except for the Delete button... I think 'Ins' looks best over the W key). Next I gave the period and comma their very own key, which was the biggest flaw with Cosurgi's layout in my opinion. This opened up the extra space on the 6 keys in the bottom left corner of the pandora, which can now be used by the grumpy to map whatever their wildest imaginations can conjure.

There were a few things I left off from Cain's design, mostly because I was just unsure of how they would work. I didn't put Volume +,Volume -, and Mute due to the pandora already having a volume-controlling thingamabob, though I guess designated volume buttons would have a few advantages. If the volume buttons really do have some important value that I am overlooking, just add it as an Fn option over X, C, and V.

I didn't add Num Lock, Scroll Lock, and the Fn options to the D-Pad because I feel it would over-complicate the basic controls. Fn options on the D-Pad should be manually mapped if the user desires them to avoid confusion for people who don't desire them imo.

The other things I left off, such as Print Screen, Sleep Mode and the currency characters, can be mapped to the blank keys manually or reached through shortcuts.

So with this layout you have all the features that are necessary, plus empty room on 6 keys for manual customization.

The only problem I could see with this format is if, for some reason, the team cannot map and label ctrl/compose + alt/altgr to the shoulders. I don't see why they wouldn't be able do this. Every button combination is still very accessible as far as I can tell, but I have a gut feeling that people are still hesitant. So if ctrl/alt on shoulders doesn't ever see the light of day, place ctrl/compose+alt/altgr in place of period/comma and move .,<> on top of ZXCV (sigh... I still think this would be a bad decision).

Here's my first post. I hope you like it and my mock-up.

And remember... Compose and AltGr are GOOD.

 

[EvilDragon]

There are some good alternatives here already - just keep one thing in mind: What do you want to do with the Pandora?
Putting / on the right side when Fn is needed to press them, is not very useful for internet, as it is a bit uncomfy to press two keys on the right side at once

 

[urjaman]

There are some good alternatives here already - just keep one thing in mind: What do you want to do with the Pandora?
Putting / on the right side when Fn is needed to press them, is not very useful for internet, as it is a bit uncomfy to press two keys on the right side at once

It shouldn't be that bad with sticky keys, but i still think that | (usage:shell) and / (usageaths&URLs) would be better placed Fn-'.' and Fn-','.
And i think (i see no mouse emulation on/off key (and i think one is not needed)) that F11/F12 and LMB/RMB should be on different ABYX keys (thinking move F11 => Y, F12 => X)

And yeah, i like AltGr and Compose.

 

[RoboShmup]

I'm assuming the pandora will have sticky keys. / being right next to Fn is the same issue as Q being next to shift. If I'm not mistaken, Q is next to shift on every mock-up I've seen so far.

Edit: Beaten to the punch!

 

[tolysz]

 

And for everyone who wants to play with keyboard .SVG files in inkscape, you can download: my layout (merged, so you have more flexibility to modify it), Kagato's layout, current ED's layout - work in progress and finally my latest variant.

Yeah, I wanted to share with you my latest variant:

I made two changes here:
1. the top 1...0 row has the same Shift symbols is in normal keyboard, that is: !@#$%^&*()
2. ED has put brightness control on Fn+9 and Fn+0. So do I - on Fn+O and Fn+P, instead of F11 and F12 there.

Those changes are however far less important than the general spirit of the layout, which ED's work-in-progress violates so bad



[+1] for compose
[+1] for AltGr
As these two are universal i.e. for any language you can even map compose(altGr or both) + char → Ελληνικά (Greek) OR Кириллица

I do not know, but I am thinking that anyone who is planing to use it as a Linux device will prefer this One.
On a console you REALLY NEED [+1]ctrl(like ctrl + c = to end(?) program, ctrl + d = to end input, ctrl +z to stop program) and [+1]alt to say the least to access menu shortcuts.

I would move the brightness control↓↑, wifi←, & bt→ on [Fn] + D-pad (which really should be mapped to cursors' keys so no need for any remaping if you want to play games) and left F11 & F12 where they were.

And as Pandora will be a Linux device we need them.

 

[pelrun]

Keep in mind that QWER, ASDF, ZXCV are the *best* keys to have Fn combos on, and should be filled first. Ignoring them and filling the right side early is just asking for trouble.

I've used this kind of keyboard for years, and whilst sticky keys are useful, if a frequently used symbol (like / ) is in an awkward position then you'll be constantly aggrieved by it.

Edit: After all this time looking at the keyboard, it just occurred to me that Fn and Shift aren't adjacent. This makes me sad.

 

[Shirohagen]

The new render font is awful, I hope to god it is changed before it's too late.

Sans serif, simple and unobtrusive please, that one looks like it's come straight out of The Good Life title sequence, it looks very homespun. We already have a shiny mobile phone-esque 'keyboard' so we've got to try to overcome that Chinese knock-off feeling. Even Arial would be fine.

Keep the letters small and subtle, no italics, no SHOUTING. Maybe even grey so they don't scream out so much, especially if they're going to glow (shudder). The suggestions in this thread are getting a lot closer.

Sorry, I rarely get opinionated about the Pandora production as I know we're very lucky to be getting it at all, but I'm going to be looking at that keyboard every day and if it doesn't change it's going to cheapen it for me...

®

 

[Klepto]

Is it too late to vote for Comic Sans?

Yes please. I use it for my desktop GUI, clear, curvy and readable at small point sizes. Some people don't like comic sans, I can't imagine why.

 

[Vorporeal]

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There are some good alternatives here already - just keep one thing in mind: What do you want to do with the Pandora?
Putting / on the right side when Fn is needed to press them, is not very useful for internet, as it is a bit uncomfy to press two keys on the right side at once

I think if we move the function maps on I, O, P, K, L, and Enter to the 6 open spots in the lower left and do a bit of rearranging and tweaking, we could have a VERY good keyboard layout.

 

[salasq]

There are some good alternatives here already - just keep one thing in mind: What do you want to do with the Pandora?
Putting / on the right side when Fn is needed to press them, is not very useful for internet, as it is a bit uncomfy to press two keys on the right side at once

ED, what's the Logo key function outside of emulators? My experience with console gaming is a few generations behind - appropriately for Pandora - and I can't remember a moment when text entry, umlauts or not, would've been critical when gaming.

So let's just hijack the Logo (Menu) key for universal Compose when not gaming. Think, for example, of German setup (dead key emulation): Logo,o -> ö, Logo,u -> ü, Logo,a -> ä, Logo,s -> ß. All umlauts - and the phat s - have their logical positions independent of what else is printed on them keys. Hell, add Logo,n -> ñ, few others, call it default layout and you'd have same functionality as with your design, with more logical umlaut positions, not funny printed stuff and same amount of keypresses.

For languagues with more diacriticals, there's either the option of simple 3-press combos (with visual cues, say Logo,n,n -> ñ; ü; Logo,u,a -> ä; Logo,e,e -> é), or harder to remember 2-press combos - anything's doable.

I've done some thinking about it, and attempting to mimic a full keyboard on Pandora's limited amount of keys is silly... but we're dealing with Linux, so separate config files for larger languagues are easy to write up, while maintaining overall layout compatibility - just sacrifice that one key for part-time Compose duty

 

[Chip]

what's the Logo key function outside of emulators?
No, that key is special. That's the system menu key.

It's tied directly to a GPIO line (all 3 keys in the middle are) instead of the keypad matrix so that it can be used at any time. It will bring up a system menu with things like a task switching menu, system options and shutdown / suspend commands. The "Pandora" key is off the table for repurposing or remapping.