Please I beg your forgiveness

[Prometheus]

"Tried" or "did", it's still something you'd describe as a joke, or at least an attempt at one.

 

[fusion_power]

"Tried" or "did", it's still something you'd describe as a joke, or at least an attempt at one.

Uh... how about: "He DID a Joke and TRIED to be funny"

 

[Prometheus]

Hahaha! :lol:

 

[AquaAnalogue]

If I were a Jew, and someone were joking about an event where millions of my brethren were murdered in cold blood... I'm sure I'd have difficulty finding it funny. With a normal sense of humour anyway, which is what most people have.


That said, I'd probably not call someone a faggot, but that's because you're basically insulting every single homosexual ever with that statement, seeing as it means "homosexual" colloquially and at the same time is meant as an insult... and there's nothing about homosexuality that makes it a good way to describe someone you dislike, except that it is a well-seasoned prejudice that "homosexual" == "bad" in some way.


The guy has an illness, I'm sure of it, and it's probably good for both us and him that he's been banned. I hate to say it, but there are those who would never have treated him as one of us, even though he was striving to fit in once again.


We all saw it, too, nobody can deny it. He would reply to threads and people would act as if he'd never replied. He bought (or said he bought) something to support OP and our community, and all he wanted was a thank-you. I didn't feel qualified to give it, but certainly Craig or someone a bit more influential than myself would have been in the right to thank him there.


I know the internet is full of trolls, and we've had to harden ourselves to deal with them. However, when was the last time you knew a 50+ year old individual with the immaturity level needed to get satisfaction from trolling... or perhaps more appropriately, the last time said senior citizen was not off their rocker for one reason or another?


Perhaps a temporary ban would've been in order. It's what I'd have done. What happened here was like... say you go to prison for 50 years for murdering someone, and come back and they give you the death sentence for stealing a pack of gum from the grocery store. It don't work.


If we were going to do something like this... just wait until he screwed up just a little to toss him out again, we should have never let him back at all. There really was no difference.

 

[Exophase]

I don't condone using "faggot" as an insult but I'd just like to play devil's advocate on this one: if I call a grown man something like a little girl it doesn't mean I'm insulting little girls.It's kind of like the old Seinfeld episode where Jerry and George were flustered about others thinking they were gay, "not that there's anything wrong with that." They just didn't want women to think they weren't interested.

 

[Blue Protoman]

I think the word "faggot" is taboo because of all the shit gays have received in the past simply for existing. To be gay any time before the 1970's (at least in America, dunno about elsewhere) was a surefire way to become hated, and for some reason, a Communist! Little girls are not discriminated against for being little girls.

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

I think the word "faggot" is taboo because of all the shit gays have received in the past simply for existing.  To be gay any time before the 1970's (at least in America, dunno about elsewhere) was a surefire way to become hated, and for some reason, a Communist!  Little girls are not discriminated against for being little girls.

Sorry but now for some reason im picturing roving packs of doe-faced little communist girls.Quick reds under the bed or in the dollhouse.A communist dollhouse.

 

[AquaAnalogue]

If I call a grown man something like a little girl it doesn't mean I'm insulting little girls.

BP had it right. Ninja'd before I even posted. (This new "1 new replies, show me" thing is nice!)


Anyway even if you could compare the two, it's still playing on a stereotype which may be hurtful to some. It's a lot easier to let it blow over if you call someone a "little girl" when they're grown because there is the age factor. Younger folks are usually associated with a higher degree of something like "cowardice" and, indeed, even younger boys are more stereotypically "feminine" (cry when they get hurt, etc). But if you call a grown man anything implying he's more like a woman ("pantywaist", "sissy," "you're such a little bitch, just do it") etc....


The male-female thing is actually a huge deal for some people. Not me, because I believe that there's a difference between stereotypes which are usually true, and prejudice which is assuming that a stereotype is true for an individual person. But there are those (read: hardcore feminists) who will, upon very predictable triggers, produce rather unfortunately laughable dialogue ("first baseperson").


What's even funnier is when you realise that, because there is basically the entirety of civilised history behind the male-female gender role stereotypes... a lot of now-unisex insults are thrown around which seem to depend upon consideration of women as "inferior" or "subordinate" in some way, exempli gratia "Suck my dick" or "Fuck me". Basically putting someone underneath you by ordering them to perform sexual acts. How did these two things ever get correlated? Oh-- the gender thing, right? How else? Anyway, it's just a theory.

 

[Orion4874]

Was he on some kind of probation? If not, then a temporary ban would have been more appropriate in my opinion. He wasn't insulting all gay people, he was lashing out at Craig, whom he's had a problem with for a while now. It's just that going from a warning to a permaban seems a liitle extreme to me. But I do agree that he seriously needs to grow some thicker skin and stop flying off the handle any time something Nazi-ish is mentioned or god forbid joked about.

 

[WizardStan]

If we were going to do something like this... just wait until he screwed up just a little to toss him out again, we should have never let him back at all. There really was no difference.

A little? Dude, he screwed up a LOT in order to get his first ban. He was given a wary second chance when he came back, and 2 more chances while here, to keep his "illness" under control.


An illness is no excuse for being an asshat, even if the illness is being an asshat. If someone has diabetes and then goes to Candy Mountain, they bring their insulin or they accept that they should probably stay away from Candy Mountain for the time being.

 

[Nintendo]

Good riddance.

 

[DaMummy]

i do this all day, your moves are just gay. statements like that are so 14-year-old-girl-wearing-skirt-as-a-shirt

 

[Prometheus]

If I were a Jew, and someone were joking about an event where millions of my brethren were murdered in cold blood... I'm sure I'd have difficulty finding it funny. With a normal sense of humour anyway, which is what most people have.

This is perfectly understandable, but then why is it ok to find wishing nasty things on people to be funny?


The disparity on show confuses me a bit, to be honest.

The guy has an illness, I'm sure of it, and it's probably good for both us and him that he's been banned. I hate to say it, but there are those who would never have treated him as one of us, even though he was striving to fit in once again.

And most of us were perfectly civil and nice. In fact, come to think of it, I don't think I saw anyone acting unpleasant towards him.

We all saw it, too, nobody can deny it. He would reply to threads and people would act as if he'd never replied.

I get the impression that I must be reading a different forum. Could you point out where this occurred, please?

He bought (or said he bought) something to support OP and our community, and all he wanted was a thank-you. I didn't feel qualified to give it, but certainly Craig or someone a bit more influential than myself would have been in the right to thank him there.

In fairness, would you demand thanks in a store or at a charity stall? I'm pretty sure that most people would find that to be a bit of an unusual practice, I would think. In fact, nobody else who placed the same order asked it.


I can't say I would expect anything in return, personally. (Indeed, I bought my keyring and went on my merry way, myself, because, hey, keyring.)

I know the internet is full of trolls, and we've had to harden ourselves to deal with them. However, when was the last time you knew a 50+ year old individual with the immaturity level needed to get satisfaction from trolling... or perhaps more appropriately, the last time said senior citizen was not off their rocker for one reason or another?

This just sounds like making excuses, which is something I recall hakmanplayer saying he hadn't wanted to do.

Perhaps a temporary ban would've been in order. It's what I'd have done. What happened here was like... say you go to prison for 50 years for murdering someone, and come back and they give you the death sentence for stealing a pack of gum from the grocery store. It don't work.


If we were going to do something like this... just wait until he screwed up just a little to toss him out again, we should have never let him back at all. There really was no difference.

And there were around one hundred or so previous chances before the first ban.


The last time this sort of behaviour was left unchecked, it made the community a very unpleasant place to be indeed.

 

[AquaAnalogue]

Right. I set out to look for examples but it must have been all in my head. I guess he wasn't ignored as much as I thought; more like shunned. I may have accumulated that idea solely from the "$1 Pandora" thread. I'll concede that. My sincere apologies for giving false information; it was not my intention.


As for your other points, I provide my respectful rebuttals:


-- making excuses: In my experience, people I know with manic/depressive or "bipolar" disorder or anything causing mood swings sometimes feel the need to take responsibility for their actions after an episode. Understand that these people don't just have lows, they have highs too. They go from hating everyone on the Earth to loving them all and feeling sooo sorry about what they did, to hating them again. It's an honest-to-God disease, I believe, and in that I feel like I'm not making excuses but that there is honestly a reason behind the episodes. To be honest, I don't really care so much about this guy as I do about those who I know and love who have serious issues with this sort of thing, and it would be foolish to not stand my ground when I truly believe there has been wrongdoing. To do anything else would tarnish my honour. Yes, I feel bad for him, but I feel even worse that the entire world as a whole is making progress with racial acceptance, homosexuality, interfaith life, etc. but there has really been no significant social progress for the mentally ill.


-- several chances: Yes, he did have many chances before, but my point stands until you refute it, that he did all those things, especially the last few big ones and was "permanently" banned, then did one thing much less severe (almost par for the course, indeed, people insulting Craig is nothing really out of the ordinary)... and is BANNED 4EVAR and this time its FOR REEL GUYEZ.


-- expecting acknowledgement of charitable contribution: This is a normal human thing; the fact that it somewhat tarnishes one's contribution with "selfishness" is moot. Most everyone does it. Multibillionaires in general do not make anonymous contributions, though it is not unheard of. They generally like to put their names on things. This kind of behaviour is even more normal to someone who is reaching out for acceptance and approval from the community. Being somewhat of a socially awkward person myself, I know what it feels like to try to mingle with people and have them just flat out deny your existence. I know you said there's no widespread evidence of this, but it definitely did happen in the "$1 Pandora" thread, and I definitely felt for him there. As I said, I wanted to thank him, but I thought, "Who am I to thank him on behalf of the community?". I should have thanked him on behalf of myself.


Please understand, this is not "AquaAnalogue vs. the Pandora Boards and Its Moderators." This is "AquaAnalogue vs. Widespread Misunderstandings". There have been times I've really wanted to kick a couple of the people I've been talking about.... square in the nuts... over not one thing, not 50 things, but thousands of things over the years, over all their episodes, ever... but then they go back to "normal" (or indeed, to one of their "highs"), the episode "ends" and they're a human being again... and I'll admit sometimes it does take a while before I stop imagining them rolling on the ground writhing in pain for what they said or did. But in the end I realise that I can't hold their acts in the "bad" state against them in the "good" state. It just wouldn't be... right.


As I said he could have been and should have been (temporarily) banned whenever he started lashing out, but I also think he could have been of value to the community in the long run. I hope you understand.


EDIT: I want to stress that I agree that "the last time this sort of behaviour was left unchecked, it made the community a very unpleasant place to be indeed." I didn't suggest that it was left unchecked, rather I suggested that he was only banned for a few days to let him cool off.

 

[Kaepora Gaebora]

What was said was wrong and hurtful in context.


Of course, it is usually obvious when someone is trying to be hurtful compared to when someone is trying to be humorous.

 

[AquaAnalogue]

I felt this one needed special mention:

If I were a Jew, and someone were joking about an event where millions of my brethren were murdered in cold blood... I'm sure I'd have difficulty finding it funny. With a normal sense of humour anyway, which is what most people have.

This is perfectly understandable, but then why is it ok to find wishing nasty things on people to be funny?

It's not okay, and I have apologised for that incident, and I do it once more right now. I'm sorry.


Indeed, by these same criteria it's "not okay" for Craig to joke about the Holocaust. People are not perfect, I am not perfect, I can only move forward and try not to make the same mistakes as the past.

 

[Kaepora Gaebora]

I felt this one needed special mention:

If I were a Jew, and someone were joking about an event where millions of my brethren were murdered in cold blood... I'm sure I'd have difficulty finding it funny. With a normal sense of humour anyway, which is what most people have.

This is perfectly understandable, but then why is it ok to find wishing nasty things on people to be funny?

It's not okay, and I have apologised for that incident, and I do it once more right now. I'm sorry.


Indeed, by these same criteria it's "not okay" for Craig to joke about the Holocaust. People are not perfect, I am not perfect, I can only move forward and try not to make the same mistakes as the past.

We live and we learn. If only every human was aware about his or her own self-improvement...

 

[WizardStan]

Indeed, by these same criteria it's "not okay" for Craig to joke about the Holocaust.

Indeed it is not okay, but there is a huge difference between the not-okay of someone making an obvious joke in very bad taste and someone who is actively wishing great harm upon a number of people that did no harm to him.

 

[fusion_power]

Uh oh...


I guess it's my fault then. If I never had mentioned the ZZ Top Keyring, Craig wouldn't had made a stupid SS Joke, the guy would nod had insulted Craig and it wouldn't had lead into the bann. h34r:


Does anyone have a Time Machine? :unsure:

 

[Prometheus]

Hardly your fault. As was said before, another similar post was removed (not by myself) prior to this, several days ago. Everyone else was ready to ban then and there, though...