Please help me, order still not processed

[EvilDragon]

By the way, VAT sux I am SO glad we don't have it in the United States!!  EVERY single time the item goes thruy a middleman it gets taxed AGAIN....sheesh!

Don't overestimate the "taxed again" part. VAT is a tax only on the difference between purchase price and resale price (which is where the "value added" component of the name comes from). There's an admin cost of course; but if you were imagining the end user paying tax on tax on tax on tax you're misunderstanding the system.

Ummm, I'm not sure if I understood you correctly, but the VAT is not just the difference between purchase and resale price.

That would mean if I purchase a Caanoo for 100 EUR and sell it for 140 EUR, only these 40 EUR would be taxed?

That's not true.

VAT is added on the END price, and thus can make items a lot more expensive, regardless of my profit.

Let's say my purchase price (or production costs) of a Pandora is 80 EUR and I'd sell it for 140 EUR.

My profit would be 60 EUR in that case. The end price would be 140 EUR + 19% VAT = 166,60 EUR (so 26,60 EUR tax added).

If my purchase price of a Pandora is 400 EUR and I'd sell it for 460 EUR, my profit would still be 60 EUR, but the end price would be 460 EUR + 19% VAT = 547,40 EUR (so 87,40 EUR tax added).

That's one of the problems - the cheaper you can actually produce, the less VAT is on top of the device... it makes more expensive products a lot more expensive, even if you make less profit per item.

 

[grydholt]

By the way, VAT sux I am SO glad we don't have it in the United States!!  EVERY single time the item goes thruy a middleman it gets taxed AGAIN....sheesh!

Don't overestimate the "taxed again" part. VAT is a tax only on the difference between purchase price and resale price (which is where the "value added" component of the name comes from). There's an admin cost of course; but if you were imagining the end user paying tax on tax on tax on tax you're misunderstanding the system.

Ummm, I'm not sure if I understood you correctly, but the VAT is not just the difference between purchase and resale price.

I guess it depends on the country's tax implementation. In Denmark each 'middleman' only pays VAT of his own profit (the value add), so in your examples you would only pay the tax authorities VAT of the 60 EUR. Of course for the customer, he'll effectively pay VAT of the full amount since all the parts of the supply chain pay their share of VAT.

 

[Timstertoo]

By the way, VAT sux I am SO glad we don't have it in the United States!!  EVERY single time the item goes thruy a middleman it gets taxed AGAIN....sheesh!

Don't overestimate the "taxed again" part. VAT is a tax only on the difference between purchase price and resale price (which is where the "value added" component of the name comes from). There's an admin cost of course; but if you were imagining the end user paying tax on tax on tax on tax you're misunderstanding the system.

Ummm, I'm not sure if I understood you correctly, but the VAT is not just the difference between purchase and resale price.

I guess it depends on the country's tax implementation. In Denmark each 'middleman' only pays VAT of his own profit (the value add), so in your examples you would only pay the tax authorities VAT of the 60 EUR. Of course for the customer, he'll effectively pay VAT of the full amount since all the parts of the supply chain pay their share of VAT.

You're all talking about the same thing.

For instance if I buy something for 2 and sell it on for 10.

I will have paid VAT over the 2 when I bought it.

Let's say VAT is 20%

The product will consist of:

2/120*20 = 0,33 VAT and 1,67 price without VAT.

Now I sell it for 10, that will consist of:

10/120*20 = 1,66 VAT and 8,34 price without VAT.

I'll have to give to the taxes 1,66 - 0,33 = 1,33 VAT 

So in fact you only pay taxes over the profit you added yourself but you hold in the complete amount from the end user.

 

[2bit]

So I take it no one buys Apple products in Europe ?

 

[klapse]

VAT is a tax only on the difference between purchase price and resale price (which is where the "value added" component of the name comes from).

But the 20% is applied to the full sale price, not the price difference between components and full sale price.


So a preorder pandora selling for 200 euro without vat gets 20%, or 40 euro added to the price.


Is this right?

 

[Timstertoo]

VAT is a tax only on the difference between purchase price and resale price (which is where the "value added" component of the name comes from).

But the 20% is applied to the full sale price, not the price difference between components and full sale price.

So a preorder pandora selling for 200 euro without vat gets 20%, or 40 euro added to the price.

Is this right?

Yes

 

[Znirk]

VAT is a tax only on the difference between purchase price and resale price (which is where the "value added" component of the name comes from).

But the 20% is applied to the full sale price, not the price difference between components and full sale price.


So a preorder pandora selling for 200 euro without vat gets 20%, or 40 euro added to the price.


Is this right?

Yes

Yes, sorry to be confusing. My point was that the 200 euro price before VAT does not include any VAT paid on the components. The last buyer pays VAT on the full price, but there's no cumulative tax on the tax paid further upstream.

Also, although VAT is collected at every manufacturing step, in the end the only the tax paid by the end user remains with the taxation authorities. Everyone else is reimbursed for the tax they paid, out of the tax they collect when they resell their processed product.

I've made a better attempt at explaining the idea about a year ago; see http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php/topic/7293-igame-v10-android-game-console/page-2#entry129517

 

[eki]

I dont care about VAT.

I still havent got my money back.

Awfull Nigerian tactics of Craig. You all say he is not scamming us.

Well he is. I am going over there to the UK. And when I am there, I am gonna get my money back. Just wait and see.

Bah!

 

[Grench]

Have fun storming the castle!

 

[Binky]

I dont care about VAT. I still havent got my money back. Awfull Nigerian tactics of Craig. You all say he is not scamming us. Well he is. I am going over there to the UK. And when I am there, I am gonna get my money back. Just wait and see. Bah!

 

[Neelix]

Have fun storming the castle!

 

[elwing]

We can't know for sure, but it doesn't look a scam at all, it seems craig lost much more than us, that would be a poor scam. but that does not mean you shouldn't be angry...

 

[Grench]

Have fun storming the castle!

Do you think it'll work?

It would take a miracle.

 

[Nintendo]

I dont care about VAT. I still havent got my money back. Awfull Nigerian tactics of Craig. You all say he is not scamming us. Well he is. I am going over there to the UK. And when I am there, I am gonna get my money back. Just wait and see. Bah!

lmfao

 

[TrashyMG]

Has anyone else noticed a correlation between those who still don't have their pandora and are furious about it and those who have rabbits for their avatar? so far I noticed 4 or so.

 

[b_o_b]

Has anyone else noticed a correlation between those who still don't have their pandora and are furious about it and those who have rabbits for their avatar? so far I noticed 4 or so.

Ed to Craig: I *warned* you Craig, but did you listen to me? Oh, no, you *knew*, didn't you? Oh, it's just a harmless little*bunny*, isn't it?

 

[b_o_b]

We can't know for sure, but it doesn't look a scam at all, it seems craig lost much more than us, that would be a poor scam. but that does not mean you shouldn't be angry...

Accepting money for a pre-order and after a few years not delivering the product and no refund possible could be interpreted as a scam. Pretty sure this would be checked if someone notified authorities. Eki could demand a refund first sending a regular mail (where he clearly states he will notify the authorities if Craig doesn't) and send a certified mail if he doesn't respond. 

If he doesn't respond then, notify the authorities. In every civil country this would lead to (maybe even criminal) investigations. Ed already said a couple of times he thought it was strange Craig didn't have any money left. Money doesn't vaporize...  Maybe someone should inspect his books, could be very interesting.. 

 

 

[elwing]

Has anyone else noticed a correlation between those who still don't have their pandora and are furious about it and those who have rabbits for their avatar? so far I noticed 4 or so.

interesting observation, but please, don't compare me to other complainer, I take special attention to avoid any unjustified attack, I try to shut off the people starting getting over in big conspiration theory based on absurd speculation and I try to clearly declare that when I'm making (resonable)speculations...

edit: B_O_B I'm not telling that there are no malversation, just that if something fishy is happening, it's not a scam but an other kind of fraud.

but just think of it 2 seconds, what is the total amount of money he got? how much were used to produce the few prototypes and the pandora sold to the first customers? how many time does he invested into that? it would be a pretty bad fraud, I can gain almost that much money in that timeframe without any fraud... that would really be a poor fraud...

 

[TrashyMG]

Has anyone else noticed a correlation between those who still don't have their pandora and are furious about it and those who have rabbits for their avatar? so far I noticed 4 or so.

 interesting observation, but please, don't compare me to other complainer, I take special attention to avoid any unjustified attack, I try to shut off the people starting getting over in big conspiration theory based on absurd speculation and I try to clearly declare that when I'm making (resonable)speculations...

I was careful not to use the word complain, I believe someone can be angry about a situation and still show reason and restraint.

 

[b_o_b]

edit: B_O_B I'm not telling that there are no malversation, just that if something fishy is happening, it's not a scam but an other kind of fraud.

Well that is just semantics. Indeed there is something fishy going on and very probably the whole situation can be considered illegal.