Trying to get my pre-order refunded


splozi

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So I pre-ordered a Pandora on December 11th, 2009. I was very excited about the community aspect of the project. I patiently awaited my Pandora for many months, continuing to read about the many problems experienced along the way, still remaining hopeful.

Three years later, I have lost all interest in this piece of technology. I requested that my pre-order be cancelled and my payment refunded minus the dev fund donation. "Jacquelyn" responded to my email kindly advising me that my order has been cancelled, and that "Your refund will be processed as soon as we are able to."

This was 26 days ago.

Am I going to have to wait another three years for a refund? One year? Six months?

I was very patient throughout this whole process. I am not so patient anymore.
 
So I pre-ordered a Pandora on December 11th, 2009. I was very excited about the community aspect of the project. I patiently awaited my Pandora for many months, continuing to read about the many problems experienced along the way, still remaining hopeful.

Three years later, I have lost all interest in this piece of technology. I requested that my pre-order be cancelled and my payment refunded minus the dev fund donation. "Jacquelyn" responded to my email kindly advising me that my order has been cancelled, and that "Your refund will be processed as soon as we are able to."

This was 26 days ago.

Am I going to have to wait another three years for a refund? One year? Six months?

I was very patient throughout this whole process. I am not so patient anymore.
You'll get the money when they get the money. Unfortunately, there's a queue for that as well.

It's completely understandable that your patience is wearing thin, but there isn't enough money right now to cover those costs. Unfortunately, that was one of the risks of preordering these units. But, you should get your money eventually, they've been working hard to make sure everybody eventually gets paid off or gets their unit. Unfortunately with the hundreds of thousands of pounds they're out due to CC and various other manufacturing problems, a lot of the money was effectively wasted.
 
So I pre-ordered a Pandora on December 11th, 2009.


...


Three years later, I have lost all interest in this piece of technology.
That would put you near the end of the preorder queue and based on current sales and 800 open preorders/refunds, I would estimate over 8 months to wait.


Why have you lost interest in this piece of technology? There aren't any direct competitors, so have you generally lost interest in emulators, linux or what?


just curious...
 
Why have you lost interest in this piece of technology? There aren't any direct competitors, so have you generally lost interest in emulators, linux or what?

just curious...

I run Ubuntu on my desktop.

I just don't see myself having a practical use for something like this anymore. I was doing a lot of travelling at the time I made the pre-order. I don't travel anymore.
 
One point on CC, as they were so critical to the efficient use of the preorder money then why we're there no concrete contract with them? I was shocked when I found out just before the production moved to Germany, it was obvious that without any contractual obligations that we were going to be the back of a never ending queue with CC once issues cropped up that were not easy to fix.


We were talking about a lot of money here so it should have been a contractual obligation that CC deliever.


If the order size was such that CC would not commit then this should have been communicated and preorders given the option to refund immediately - given that option it would now be the individuals choice to have waited over 4 years rather than the current situation of tough!
 
One point on CC, as they were so critical to the efficient use of the preorder money then why we're there no concrete contract with them? I was shocked when I found out just before the production moved to Germany, it was obvious that without any contractual obligations that we were going to be the back of a never ending queue with CC once issues cropped up that were not easy to fix.


We were talking about a lot of money here so it should have been a contractual obligation that CC deliever.


If the order size was such that CC would not commit then this should have been communicated and preorders given the option to refund immediately - given that option it would now be the individuals choice to have waited over 4 years rather than the current situation of tough!
I don't have access to it, but I'm positive that there was a contract to cover the order. I'm guessing that they haven't filed suit in large part because they'd have to then count on winning the suit in order to continue shipping units. Plus, during the period where they're fighting in court, and before they could collect an award, their money would be tied up in litigation, meaning that no more units would be shipping for probably a few years.

But, I'm positive that there was a contract and I'd be shocked if CC wasn't in breach of that contract.

The only people that I've seen claim that there wasn't a detailed contract are people outside of the project with no knowledge of the contract.

(Also, I thought CC didn't have much money to seize in the event of losing the law suit anyways, but I can't recall where I read that, so it might not be true.
 
So I pre-ordered a Pandora on December 11th, 2009.


...


Three years later, I have lost all interest in this piece of technology.
That would put you near the end of the preorder queue and based on current sales and 800 open preorders/refunds, I would estimate over 8 months to wait.


Why have you lost interest in this piece of technology? There aren't any direct competitors, so have you generally lost interest in emulators, linux or what?


just curious...
I've personally lost interest in it not because of the device itself, but the bullshit surrounding it.  I ordered mine in 10/2009 and still have yet to see anything from it (nor do I have any idea where I am in line).  I've been quiet for the entire time (and have followed the drama the entire time, including the time between the original announcement and my purchase) and tried to be reasonable and understanding, but I've reached a breaking point.  It seems to me at this point that Craig does not run a reputable business and just keeps starting up new projects, never to be delivered (see iCP2).  The only thing I can see doing at this point is getting a refund (which I requested 2 weeks ago and haven't heard anything back about) before the whole thing just completely implodes and I can't even recover what I've already invested. ED seems to be a stand-up guy and doing his best to keep OP going, but I will never (EVER) purchase anything Craig is involved with again.  I regret doing it in the first place.

The worst part is I was really looking forward to developing for the platform.  I can't think of anything cooler than a portable Linux system and the possibilities it provides.
 
So I pre-ordered a Pandora on December 11th, 2009.


...


Three years later, I have lost all interest in this piece of technology.
That would put you near the end of the preorder queue and based on current sales and 800 open preorders/refunds, I would estimate over 8 months to wait.


Why have you lost interest in this piece of technology? There aren't any direct competitors, so have you generally lost interest in emulators, linux or what?


just curious...
I've personally lost interest in it not because of the device itself, but the bullshit surrounding it.  I ordered mine in 10/2009 and still have yet to see anything from it (nor do I have any idea where I am in line).  I've been quiet for the entire time (and have followed the drama the entire time, including the time between the original announcement and my purchase) and tried to be reasonable and understanding, but I've reached a breaking point.  It seems to me at this point that Craig does not run a reputable business and just keeps starting up new projects, never to be delivered (see iCP2).  The only thing I can see doing at this point is getting a refund (which I requested 2 weeks ago and haven't heard anything back about) before the whole thing just completely implodes and I can't even recover what I've already invested. ED seems to be a stand-up guy and doing his best to keep OP going, but I will never (EVER) purchase anything Craig is involved with again.  I regret doing it in the first place.

The worst part is I was really looking forward to developing for the platform.  I can't think of anything cooler than a portable Linux system and the possibilities it provides.
Honestly, it gets a bit old having everybody dumping on Craig and praising ED. ED has done a ton of work, but you act like Craig hasn't made sacrifices as well and as if it's somehow his fault that CC lied to them about the production status and allowed the boards to be corroded while they lied about having completed them.

Craig was never the hardware end of the OPT as far as I know, and I've been following it since the original preorder period.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but singling Craig out is really not fair to him. I'm not really sure why he shouldn't be starting new projects when his part of the OPT project is finished, except to market for more customers. He can't send out more units until they're produced and paid for. Having him sit there doing nothing isn't something which is going to get more units produced and sent to customers.

As far as the iCP2 goes, he's only a month behind at this point, very few KS projects actually ship on time. I know that none of the ones I've backed have shipped on time and I've only received one finished project even though some were originally supposed to be finished 6 months ago.
 
I think the main problem most have here with Craig is that he doesn't tell anything and never keeps any deadlines nor apogolizes if something doesn't work out as planned.


If he doesn't want to answer a question, he simply ignores it.


That's the main issues about that, I think.


There are many open questions that never had been answered, like where all the part money, 1GHz money, etc. went. It seems impossible that it all went into refunds, otherwise his remaining queue would be way smaller.


This is the information that people (and even I) are missing and which lead to assumptions and speculations.


Everyone knows he got it all started, but right now, he's not doing much it seems.


There's tons of work to do that would help out (like doing promotion, creating a proper website with in-depth information, etc.), but not much has happened here from Craigs side.


He made a new website with Gadgetoid, yes, but that's mostly it. And it's a pure marketing site, no in-depth information for new customers.


I've got 400 finished Pandoras sitting in my office and can get 200 more per week if I want.


The faster we sell them, the faster we're through with all our queues.


The most important thing he seems to be missing out is the community itself. If he would be working WITH the community to resolve these issues, there wouldn't be so many negative attitudes towards him.


If he would tell his customers what's going on, I'm sure all this wouldn't be the case. I even offered to communicate with his refund request customers a few times, so I can explain the situation and calm them down... but all I got was the answer that it wouldn't help.


If he would step up for once, tell everyone the real situation without promises or marketing blah and would work together WITH everyone here to resolve the situation, then I'm sure everyone would respect him and help out.


But as long as he pops up sometimes, makes more promises that can't be kept, ignores questions he doesn't like and misses all deadlines by far, people will moan.


I don't say Craig does fraud, and he's the initiator of the Pandora and did awesome things back then.


But right now we need him to help us all out. Marketing is needed for new customers, not for already existing ones. They just want to know you still care about them.
 
I've personally lost interest in it not because of the device itself, but the bullshit surrounding it.


...


The worst part is I was really looking forward to developing for the platform. I can't think of anything cooler than a portable Linux system and the possibilities it provides.
The thing is, having gotten a unit, I can honestly say it was worth the 3.5 year wait. In your position I would also have requested a refund (to be paid eventually) but also have ordered a refurb unit for 280€ (or rebirth unit, depending on how much I want Android compatibility and extra RAM).

Since you have been following the boards you probably know how the delays and cost overruns were not (for the most part) OPT's fault. I don't know what else I can say to encourage you to get a yourself a unit ASAP :) They are really awesome and fun.
 
I think the main problem most have here with Craig is that he doesn't tell anything and never keeps any deadlines nor apogolizes if something doesn't work out as planned.
So true...
There are many open questions that never had been answered, like where all the part money, 1GHz money, etc. went. It seems impossible that it all went into refunds, otherwise his remaining queue would be way smaller.
What are his ongoing monthly costs of doing business? I read somewhere it was 2000€/mo? Jacquelyn is a paid employee?
I've got 400 finished Pandoras sitting in my office and can get 200 more per week if I want.


The faster we sell them, the faster we're through with all our queues.
How many sold last week?
 
SNIP

Thanks ED, I have my own issues with Craig, and you've pretty much hit all of those on the head, but I wish people would stop circulating the fraud allegations and focusing completely on Craig as the cause of all the problems. I'm sure he could be doing a better job, but I really don't believe that he, or really any of you, would have gotten involved in this project if you would have known about how badly the production company would botch the process.

Ultimately, those sort of false allegations just make it harder for Craig, you and the rest of the folks to get new orders as there's the chance that they'll be scared off by not just the previous delays, but the fraud allegations.
 
I also ordered in early December 2009 but AFAIK the original preorders continued until the end of 2010. I don't think it is possible to know which order date is towards "end of the (original) line" without knowing if most of the cancellations came from the people who ordered earlier or the people who ordered later.
 
If I wanted drama, I'd watch a daytime soap. This is ridiculous.
I agree, but there's a ton of people out there that seem to think there's fraud going on. And allowing it to be posted without challenge is just going to make it harder to get people like you your refund money.

I also ordered in early December 2009 but AFAIK the original preorders continued until the end of 2010. I don't think it is possible to know which order date is towards "end of the (original) line" without knowing if most of the cancellations came from the people who ordered earlier or the people who ordered later.
Nearly all of the cancellations came from people who ordered after the initial preorder period. I preordered on October 5th, 2008 and the only reason why I've received a unit at this point is because I upgraded to a 1ghz unit. So, I think it's a pretty safe bet that most of the people cancelling weren't in the original preorder period at the beginning.

I forget when exactly the original batch 1 cut off date was, but I'm pretty sure that virtually all the cancellations were by people who ordered after I did.
 
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