Please help me, order still not processed

[eki]

Yeah, I kno. Its just really, really disappointing what is happening here. It has shapen my view about community efforts, and im not going to be part of one for a very long time. Im devastated by this.


And, if craig would say that I would get money back at a certain time, and hold himself to it that would be a very much improvement.


I supported this project for 2 years. Now I cant anymore and all I can do is guess. Guess when I get the correct info, guess when i can get my money back.


Whilst other people are enjoying their pandoras who ordered them after me.


Gutted I am mate. Just gutted.

 

[Wally]

I understand how you feel man. If you have been advised you get your money back.. you should at least get it back immediately as you have provided bank account details etc.


If you paid via credit card can't you reverse the charge?

 

[WizardStan]

Where do I say craig is commiting fraud? Absolutely nowhere. I had my obligations, and I fulfilled them. It is craig that time and time again neglects his obligations.

Imply: Strongly suggest the truth or existence of (something not expressly stated)


Fraud: Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain


You stated that you have performed your end of a bargain and that Craig has failed to live up to his end. You further stated that you believe that his behaviour is criminal. You have not outright stated that you believe it is fraud, but everything you have said heavily implies that that is exactly what you are talking about by the very definition of the word. Many others have tried to use this as a defence against libel suits: it almost never works. Implying someone is doing something that you have no evidence of is just as hazardous as blatantly stating it. You may be right, Craig could be lying about everything and be in major trouble, but thus far there is no evidence of that and you are not doing yourself or anyone else any favours by implying otherwise.


Contact your reporter friend, make sure he does ALL of his due diligence in his investigation, and only when he has all the facts should he go to print. Make no mistake, I am not trying to defend anything Craig has done, I am trying to protect other bystanders (such as EvilDragon and Link, but also all of Craig's customers that are still diligently waiting) who may be affected by things that Craig may or may not have done. If it turns out he has been lying all along, then he deserves what is coming to him, but no one else should suffer him.

 

[eki]

My problem is with craig and with nobody else. His way of doing business is attracting negative energy to others. You got it wrong. Me ventilating his wrongful way of doing business is completely justified.

I never said any other vendors/bystanders were to blame. READ MY POSTS, i dare you.

Havent heard anything yet. As to be expected.

DO NOT ORDER FROM THE UK BRANCH YOU WILL REGRET IT!!!!

 

[EvilDragon]

DO NOT ORDER FROM THE UK BRANCH YOU WILL REGRT IT!!!!

He doesn't sell anything anymore since the 1GHz preorders, so no new customer will be affected.

 

[Binky]

You cannot order from the UK branch - so there's nothing to warn customers against.

 

[eki]

Great now im never gonna get my refund;
 
 I think the following should be in a quote, like so. - Binky

Firstly, thanks for all your (kind) emails.

As a start I've built six 600mhz units in the silver cases, they have the new nubs, new LCD cable etc.

Fully working, ready to go.

$299 each. PM me.

Many of you are offering to upgrade to the 1Ghz to try to help. This will help get things moving again, and will keep it moving until we get our tax back on those 100 units, at which point things should be back in gear.

Now, the obligatory FAQ to try to stop the same (unhelpful) things being said time and time again:

Q) Why did you refund those orders for big money?

A) Because we are required to by law. It was either potential court action or refund. Court action could freeze and liquidate the company very quickly, there have been bizarre situations where companies have been made bankrupt over £100 debts by just ignoring them.

Q) But why didn't you negotiate with them to try to stop them happening?

A) We did to an extent, but if someone wants their money, you have to give it back to them. In some cases we have negotiated with people for months before they threaten us with legal action. It's not nice to end up in that situation, and I don't think it leaves a very good impression. If we had just refunded right away they might have come back one day, but now they won't.

Q) What now?

Right, I'l like to go ahead with the planned 1Ghz publicity we have prepared. From these sales we will do a 1 for 1. Each unit sold will cover a preorder.

But remember, there will still be cancelled orders, returned units and issues while doing all this.

But that promotion should clear the 1Ghz backlog.

Then we're back to clearing original orders.

That's it, simple as that.

Then, next month we get the tax refund and we have a buffer zone once more.

That's all we can offer right now, let me know if you think we should do something else.

PS considering offering some kind of cheaper upgrade deal for 10 days, good, bad idea?

 

[eki]

And if im right, craig hasnt posted anything about this after november 20th or so.

2 months in the dark again. This person doesnt follow up on anything he says. This is pathetic.

 

[TrashyMG]

Your mis-understanding things again Eki..

EvilDragon's sales are still driving craig's pre-order list and refunds.. even if Craig isn't selling anything himself. 

Craig has disappeared for the most part, but it's reported that his pre-orders are still being full-filled thanks to Jacqueline. 

it's also real hard to understand what your saying and what was quoted from another thread.. use the quotes feature of the forum.

 

 

[eki]

Sorry about the quotes.

Can anyone tell me when this should be over? Or is this info reserved for someone with a crystal ball in his/her possesion?

 

[Kumaki]

It could be over in less than a week....if you do the cross-upgrade thingy.

But if you do not want to part with more money, the only person who can tell you when it is over is anyone who can tell you what your number is in the queue...and even then, you just know how many are ahead of you...you have no idea how long it will take to get that many, because sales of new units are funding pre-orders like yours.

while I feel you pain, and understand...you DID pay a far cheaper price than those of us who ordered from in-stock, as I did,  I paid 500 bucks for the ReBirth...and could've pad $700 for the 1Ghz version.

YOU, by being patient...may wind up with a 1Ghz version...for only the price you paid for the pre-order....which I'm betting is far lower than $500. (US Dollars, of course, and I have no idea what that converts to in Euro or Pounds.)

Meanwhile, I just had to send my unit back, because the touchscreen quit working.  Link, here in the US, has been fabulous with everything,

He will be fixing it and sending it back, so, for now...I am in the ranks of you Pandora-less folks.  And it sucks.

Bottom line, you can wait....and end up with a great deal in the end, I'm reasonable sure nobody is going to get scroogied completely....or you can end your waiting by ponying up more cash.  wish I had some better answers for you!

 

[Timstertoo]

Everytime I see someone say upgrade I cringe. It's not an upgrade, it's pay more then you did originally, thus making the unit more then twice as expensive, to end your hostage situation.

I'd lovingly pay the difference between what I paid and the current build cost of a 1GhZ right this instant if it would be sent immediately. That is an upgrade.

I understand how that cannot happen and it's not ED's fault etc etc etc but at let's at least call a spade a spade and stop calling it an upgrade but say "If you like you can buy it again at cost and this time actually get it sent."

 

[Kumaki]

Hey, they call it an upgrade.  I honestly have NO IDEA how much original people paid....and how much more than THAT it would take to equal the cost of someone buying off the shelf.

But I DO know that off-the-shelf orders are injecting cash into the project and that helps fill the old pre-orders.  The problem is that there are money issues, due to any number of production problems, etc.

SO...to fill a pre-order, they STILL have to at LEAST cover the production cost of the unit.  And I BELIEVE that that is why the price of the upgrade is what it is...it covers nothing more than actual production costs, no profit, no nothing.

Now, if the price of the upgrade...plus the original investment...equals a total of MORE than someone just bopping in off the street, shall we say, and buying one...llike latecomers to the project like me did...what can I say?

Maybe people who do the upgrade should then, when money permits...get a refund of the difference between their total cost...and someone like me who just bopped in and bought one.

the whole problem here is a cash flow problem.  And ED is doing a bang-up job in dealing with a very bad situation.  As a business owner myself, I have some sympathy for ED's situation....you WANT to deliver stuff, but you literally do not have the money to make enough units to cover all the existing orders.  so you do everything you can to increase cash flow...promoting new business....and for the previous people, you offer to get them one for nothing above actual production cost.

If there is no money, there is no way a unit can be made and it is just that simple.  I know this does nothing to help out the people who are waiting and waitng and waiting...but it DOES offer them a way to stop waiting - even if at a higher price than they originally paid ( consider that they originally ordered a 256 and are now gonna likely get a 1Ghz.)  BUT...

As a consumer, I have to look at it and say...gee, it still should not cost me more TOTAL...than someone who bopped in off the street.  I get that.

But the money has to be there.

SO...if it was me, I might then suggest that those who paid more IN TOTAL that a latecomer...would get put in a refund queue for the difference between those two prices...and that money would have to wait until there was a cash injection.

simply put:

Person X pre-ordered, and, let's say, paid $300

Person X now upgrades for $450 more

Person X now paid a total of $750 and got thier unit.

Person Y bopped in off the street, and bought a unit for $700.

Person Y paid less IN TOTAL...than Person X did.

But Person X HAD to pay that much, becauyse the production cost of his unit had to be covered, or it could not have been produced AT ALL.

So, maybe when the mess gets all sorted out from future sales, Person X would get a $50 refund....or maybe some kind of store credit on accessories, or whatever.

BUT...the bottom line is...if the money is not available to produce the units, then no units get produced.  ED is doing everything he can...but he can't wave a magic wand and make Pandoras appear, there HAS to be money!!

 

[EvilDragon]

The first preorder price was about 200 EUR.


Upgrade price is 270 EUR, so that's nearly exactly what you pay for a 1GHz unit these days.


Later preorder price was about 270 EUR, so that would be 70 EUR more than what you pay for a 1GHz unit these days.


Both upgrade amounts were LESS than a new 1GHz unit before the price drop on christmas though.

 

[mcobit]

I am pretty sure the original preorder price was 250€ as I payed that on day one

 

[Timstertoo]

Kumaki,


Everyone, inluding me, calls it an upgrade. So you're certainly not doing anything wrong. It just started itching lately and your post triggered a scratch


The solution you proposed is almost exactly similar to the suggestion I posted here: http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php/topic/11268-idea-to-break-the-impasse/


The thread, as they do, quickly degenerated in mud slinging so only the first page or so is interesting. Bottomline is, although I still think it's a good idea no other original pre order said he/she would be interested in such a construction.


ED was open to discussing something like that, which says a lot about him as it would mean an increase of his responsibility and there are plenty of reasons for him to just have said he can't do it.


So apologies if I gave you the idea my post was an attack on you in any way. I just think the word upgrade should be changed in ransom. As the pre orders that are left can't get their money back and can't get their unit in any reasonable timeframe, unless they pay said ransom.


And to be complete. I'd absolutely love to support ED and Craig by paying a true upgrade, the difference between what I paid originally and the extra cost to produce a 1GhZ unit. Then I would get an upgraded unit and they'd get a fair amount of extra money.

 

[EvilDragon]

I am pretty sure the original preorder price was 250€ as I payed that on day one

That was incl. VAT

All my prices above were without VAT.

 

[mcobit]

I see...

 

[Kumaki]

The first preorder price was about 200 EUR.


Upgrade price is 270 EUR, so that's nearly exactly what you pay for a 1GHz unit these days.


Later preorder price was about 270 EUR, so that would be 70 EUR more than what you pay for a 1GHz unit these days.


Both upgrade amounts were LESS than a new 1GHz unit before the price drop on christmas though.

Thanks for the clarifying information, ED.

Did my scenario up there hit the nail, though?

Basically, with the upgrade, you're only covering the actual production cost of the unit.

See, As a business owner myself, I can appreciate what cash-flow problems can do to your ability to deliver!

By the way, VAT sux I am SO glad we don't have it in the United States!!  EVERY single time the item goes thruy a middleman it gets taxed AGAIN....sheesh!  But, of course, ED can't help VAT that's the doings of a government.

 

[Znirk]

By the way, VAT sux I am SO glad we don't have it in the United States!!  EVERY single time the item goes thruy a middleman it gets taxed AGAIN....sheesh!

Don't overestimate the "taxed again" part. VAT is a tax only on the difference between purchase price and resale price (which is where the "value added" component of the name comes from). There's an admin cost of course; but if you were imagining the end user paying tax on tax on tax on tax you're misunderstanding the system.