Please Delete:Radical Hardware Idea for Pandora 2(Outdated 2/22/2012)

Binky

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You could access the game controls in the same what you access the touchpanel on the back of the PSVita. (the triggers would also be accessible (maybe for right & middle click?))


If you wanted a game-controls & keyboard experience, then use it in the standard palmtop configuration.
 

jvff

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Hi,


just throwing an idea:


What if the screen was detachable and the main-body (containing CPU/battery/nubs/keyboard) had a use for both sides. Keyboard could be on one side and the "gaming controls" on the other side. The nubs could even be placed so they can be accessed by the index fingers when keyboard side is face up. Switching sides would be just detaching screen, flipping the main body and reattaching the screen.


Don't know how doable this is though. Any feedback?
 

Binky

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Probably doable, by the docking mechanism would take up space and be susceptible to damage.


Also, I'd rather not have delicate controls on the outside of my pocket computer if it isn't necessary..
 

Nardella

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First, what game is on the screen of this fantasy Pandora, does it run on the Pandora yet?


I just realized a big issue with the idea of redesigning the Pandora for better touch screen access. Using the touch screen with your thumbs is comfortable. I suspect the reason we think that touch screen use is uncomfortable is because we have only used it with the stylus. Also, when your thumbs are dry, single touch is very accurate (accuracy increases with pressure), I tested this with the pencil in easypaint. That said here is the rest of my commentary on this design.


Regarding camera damage, cell phones seem to not have issues in this area so protecting the camera is probably not required.


I like the design, my favourite parts are:


Makes android app usage easier


Leaves keyboard and buttons accessible in touch mode


Bigger screen


But I see the following issues:


1. The current screen is recessed in its case, I presume this is to protect it from the nubs and keyboard as well as dust, your design would leave the screen exposed to dust and such when closed. A recessed screen when fully open would look very silly.


2. Changing screen configurations would require unplugging some things.


3. The P2 would probably last for a shorter time.


4. Some LEDs would be invisible when the P2 is closed, solving this would increase weight and complexity.


5. I prefer dial or button controlled volume.


6. A new sensor would have to be devised for detecting screen position.


7. Increased:


bulk


weight


cost


design time, case tweaking
 

Binky

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<p>The game is supertuxkart 7-minigolf track, I don't think there is a Pandora Port yet <img alt=" :mellow: " class="bbc_emoticon" src="http://boards.openpandora.org/public/style_emoticons/default/mellow.png" title=" :mellow: " /></p>


<p> </p>


<p>Can say, not having a Pandora yet!</p>


<ol>


<li>There would need to be some judicious use on bevels etc to make it close properly</li>


<li>That is true, but no worse than the P1</li>


<li>Only if built to the same (budget) standards as the P1</li>


<li>No reason why they shouldn't be (mirrored?) on the side somewhere. Do people look at those LEDs when the case is closed?</li>


<li>again, easily changed</li>


<li>Any ideas? How about in the screen support bumps?</li>


<li>Only a little bit!, also not much, can any features be added without price increase?, depends on overall efficiency improvements in the process compared to the P1</li>


</ol>


Oh no! the attack of demented formatting!
 
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Saber

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can any features be added without price increase?, depends on overall efficiency improvements in the process compared to the P1
If anything, price for the customer would increase. Remember when $330 was too much to pay for a Pandora 1 a couple years ago. How people irrationally fumed that they could buy something else almost as good for less of their hard earned cash. Back then there were not many options, but today it is a different world. Then we were given the ability to jump the queue for a Premium Pandora for $500. Well, how much does a Pandora cost today? It's not $330, that's for sure.


The people on this board would pay what it is today, but the ones who are living outside the bubble aren't as easily convinced to pay the kind of money OP is asking even if they are ignorant on what it costs to make one. The Pandora 2 will have to be much more powerful to stand out on it's own at around the current price(in spite of its unique keyboard-nubs-clamshellness), or it will have to cost less to buy, which might only be accomplished by a redesign.


Of course this all assumes that we'd want the Pandora to be more popular than niche status. :(
 

Prometheus

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Of course this all assumes that we'd want the Pandora to be more popular than niche status. :(
Well of course we do!


The only issue is, what counts as "non-niche" seems to equal taking away everything that's made the existing customer-base buy into it in the first place. At that point, you just have another also-ran device, and the previous customer-base now have no options at all. :(
 

Binky

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Given that any P2 will be a handheld, device comparable to smartphones, games consoles and palmtops, what order would you rank its features in, in order of importance?

  1. Keyboard
  2. real Linux (not locked/dumbed down)
  3. Game controls (also known as pointer control, scroll nub, arrow keys, mouse buttons)
  4. Full USB host
  5. Battery life
  6. SD slots
  7. screen resolution>200ppi
  8. Clamshellyness
  9. (less important stuff)


In other words, what should not be removed for the P2?
 

TrashyMG

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Given that any P2 will be a handheld, device comparable to smartphones, games consoles and palmtops, what order would you rank its features in, in order of importance?

  1. Keyboard
  2. real Linux (not locked/dumbed down) *IE Not Android*
  3. Game controls (also known as pointer control, scroll nub, arrow keys, mouse buttons)
  4. Full USB host
  5. Battery life
  6. SD slots
  7. screen resolution&gt;200ppi
  8. Clamshellyness
  9. (less important stuff)


In other words, what should not be removed for the P2?
That list pretty much works for me with an added inflammatory comment.
 
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Binky

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Given that any P2 will be a handheld, device comparable to smartphones, games consoles and palmtops, what order would you rank its features in, in order of importance?

  1. Keyboard
  2. real Linux (not locked/dumbed down) *IE Not Android*
  3. Game controls (also known as pointer control, scroll nub, arrow keys, mouse buttons)
  4. Full USB host
  5. Battery life
  6. SD slots
  7. screen resolution&gt;200ppi
  8. Clamshellyness
  9. (less important stuff)


In other words, what should not be removed for the P2?
That list pretty much works for me with an added inflammatory comment.
Whoa! You want IE rather than Android? Why! :eek: :p
 

AnimatedFreak

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Given that any P2 will be a handheld, device comparable to smartphones, games consoles and palmtops, what order would you rank its features in, in order of importance?

  1. Keyboard
  2. real Linux (not locked/dumbed down)
  3. Game controls (also known as pointer control, scroll nub, arrow keys, mouse buttons)
  4. Full USB host
  5. Battery life
  6. SD slots
  7. screen resolution>200ppi
  8. Clamshellyness
  9. (less important stuff)


In other words, what should not be removed for the P2?
Agree! I would like to see Ubuntu on the Pandora 2 :) Android sure have alot of apps but it would make the Pandora less speciall
 

TrashyMG

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Given that any P2 will be a handheld, device comparable to smartphones, games consoles and palmtops, what order would you rank its features in, in order of importance?

  1. Keyboard
  2. real Linux (not locked/dumbed down) *IE Not Android*
  3. Game controls (also known as pointer control, scroll nub, arrow keys, mouse buttons)
  4. Full USB host
  5. Battery life
  6. SD slots
  7. screen resolution&gt;200ppi
  8. Clamshellyness
  9. (less important stuff)


In other words, what should not be removed for the P2?
That list pretty much works for me with an added inflammatory comment.
Whoa! You want IE rather than Android? Why! :eek: :p
sorry meant I.e.


Although really is IE an operating system?
 
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Binky

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Unless MS decide that InternetexploderOS (like chromeOS) is a good idea...


---


Would it be worth starting a poll about this? (feature priorities)
 

RRGreen

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Unless MS decide that InternetexploderOS (like chromeOS) is a good idea...


---


Would it be worth starting a poll about this? (feature priorities)
Judging by the large numbers of Pandora2 threads and the like, a poll would be a great idea. Is it possible to make a thread where people put features in order?
 

Saber

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Of course this all assumes that we'd want the Pandora to be more popular than niche status. :(
Well of course we do!


The only issue is, what counts as "non-niche" seems to equal taking away everything that's made the existing customer-base buy into it in the first place. At that point, you just have another also-ran device, and the previous customer-base now have no options at all. :(
Agree! I would like to see Ubuntu on the Pandora 2 :) Android sure have alot of apps but it would make the Pandora less speciall
Some have said that if you take this and that from it, the device will no longer be a Pandora. Then I ask what makes a Pandora a Pandora? The two nubs, the clamshell, the keyboard, the $500 pricetag, or the version of the Linux OS it uses? All of them together? Or is it the opensource pocket computer with game controls aspect that's a Pandora?


Frankly, in order to satisfy the tiny customer base we have now, it would mean another P1-like clamshell around the $500+ range with better specs. That would mean keeping everything close to the same, which would mean keeping everything else also the same(i.e. tiny customer base). It would be fantasy to believe that Openpandora could bump the specs and leave everthing as is at the current price and expect any meaningful expansion without relying heavily on income from iControlpad sales. They would essentially be repeating the scenario they find themselves in now, in two or three years time, in order to buffer the enormous costs to make 8000 or so people happy.


What is confusing to me is how some of the fans want it to be popular, but they prevent or protest the ways presented to them on how it could be done. As an example, the discussion in the other thread concerning jumping over to Android has many of the veterans here belligerent about how the P1 software they worked so hard to create and port would be rendered possibly incompatible. Some have even foreseen the catastrophe that the community would lose many of its talented P1 devs along with a multitude of loyal fans that have stuck by OP for the entire project. Craig even stated the facts of why they are leaning towards Android and why having two OS's wouldn't be viable, but few even listened, because it breaks the traditional way things have been. Instead they proclaimed that "if it has Android then i'm likely going to buy something else".


Customer turnover is a part of business. Those individuals that don't want to adapt will find something else to interest them. The eventual outcome is that the community along with Openpandora will be bigger than it is, if it decides to make those decisions that some who favor the status quo would rather they didn't.
 
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Prometheus

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Or is it the opensource pocket computer with game controls aspect that's a Pandora?
I think it's a lot of things to a lot of people, myself, thanks to its multitude of control options. To me, it's the above-quoted description. :p Its versatility is what makes it work well, for me.

Those individuals that don't want to adapt will find something else to interest them. The eventual outcome is that the community along with Openpandora will be bigger than it is, if it decides to make those decisions that some who favor the status quo would rather they didn't.
I don't believe that it's a case of people not wanting to adapt (indeed, everyone supports an Android dual-boot, for example, and there appears to be no reason not to offer this, but it looks like it may not be the case, even though Android will soon be using the very same kernel as any Linux distribution), so much as the fact that there still isn't anything else like it, and people are concerned about losing the option of the singular product on the market that suits their requirements.


The closest thing is the Sharp Netwalker PC-Z1, and that lacks the game-controls and has (in my view, at least), a worse keyboard layout.


I'd certainly love to hear that the "something else" you speak of exists, but as far as I've found it doesn't, and nothing similar is on the horizon either. I'd imagine that complete lack of alternatives alone accounts for quite a few Pandora sales. :p
 
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Tempel

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Craig even stated the facts of why they are leaning towards Android and why having two OS's wouldn't be viable, but few even listened, because it breaks the traditional way things have been. Instead they proclaimed that "if it has Android then i'm likely going to buy something else".us quo would rather they didn't.
Hold up there. I've read that thread. Craig said, to paraphrase, "Future chipsets will require more work to support Linux, but will easily support Android!" Exophase and WizardStan replied "That doesn't make sense. Linux support is only getting better." Essentially, they disagree on the technical difficulty of getting Linux on a future chipset. Exophase is one of the most capable devs here, and WizardStan is no slouch either; it's disingenuous to claim that they're arguing just because they like the status quo.


And my own unrelated opinion: The biggest factor holding back new users is production delays. Once those are settled, the user-base will naturally grow. Then we'll be better able to see other hindrances to adoption.
 

Saber

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Craig even stated the facts of why they are leaning towards Android and why having two OS's wouldn't be viable, but few even listened, because it breaks the traditional way things have been. Instead they proclaimed that "if it has Android then i'm likely going to buy something else".us quo would rather they didn't.
Hold up there. I've read that thread. Craig said, to paraphrase, "Future chipsets will require more work to support Linux, but will easily support Android!" Exophase and WizardStan replied "That doesn't make sense. Linux support is only getting better." Essentially, they disagree on the technical difficulty of getting Linux on a future chipset. Exophase is one of the most capable devs here, and WizardStan is no slouch either; it's disingenuous to claim that they're arguing just because they like the status quo.
No, I don't think you've read all of that thread, and i've a lot of respect for Exophase.

And my own unrelated opinion: The biggest factor holding back new users is production delays. Once those are settled, the user-base will naturally grow. Then we'll be better able to see other hindrances to adoption.
The user base will obviously grow but not to the degree you're subtly implying it will. Production delays were what hindered adoption, but that has been replaced with a premium price.

This report, which mentions the Linux 3.3 kernel supporting Android userspace code seems to be relevant, here.


Also of note is that progress on merging Android's kernel with the mainline Linux kernel is going well.
This is encouraging.
 
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