Pictures, Videos and thoughts of a Pyra dev-prototype

[directive0]

Loic is using the Pyra a bit.
He installed the game "Singularity" with a simple "apt-get" command and played it. He also plugged-in a headset so he can have sound.

Man. I think of all the things I'm excited about with the Pyra having access to apt-get ranks among the top. I love the PND system and using the manager, its a great experience but it i will be nice to have access to a lot of that without bugging the porting gods on here. I can appreciate that in practical use milage may vary but that one little insight into the flow of things on the Pyra has me really pleased.

 

[thebaitmaster]

Re games, Ptitseb's already posted a video of both his Pandora and his Pyra prototype running a game. It was a PC port though, so it didn't use the game buttons - just d-pad and enter/return.

I too would like to know if it's possible to get the Y button especially to stick like it did on the keymat prototype unit on something more closely approaching mass production. I think I pressed it off-center to the top and it was quite easy to get it to lock half down. As long as that's not making electrical contact, that may not be such an issue actually, because another press from a more normal direction bought it straight back up, but it will affect how the button feels in use.

Maybe wider holes for those buttons will fix that problem - and keep the material nice and smooth as to avoid the keys getting stuck in the hole. I think the mainstream videogame companies found efficient ways to overcome that error years ago. Try to make comparisons between the developing device to corporate devices in order to quickly figure out the cost efficient and effective fixes to those sort of problems.

 

[Pyramancer]

Where nerd points really kick in is when you detach the antenna, insert a 6' cable, then mount the antenna bit on a satellite TV parabolic reflector to get WiFi from a mile away.

Except that, IIUC, it is illegal in many (all?) ITU member jurisdictions for an unlicensed individual to operate such an intentional radiator with an antenna with higher gain than that with which it manufactured. In some jurisdictions it might even be illegal to make the modification. (Of course, there wouldn't be much point in making the modification when you can't use the modified system anyway.)
[doublepost=1498504213,1498502472][/doublepost]

Satellite dishes reflect microwaves, which are a sort of radio wave. Wifi uses radio waves IIRC slightly below the range of the microwaves (so, miniwaves maybe?),

WiFi typically uses spectrum around 2.4 GHz or 5 GHz, so very definitely microwaves. [Microwaves are typically defined as 1 GHz to 100 GHz; sometimes 300 MHz to 300 GHz.] FWIW The big old satellite television dishes were for signals around (very roughly) 5 GHz; If I remember correctly, the more modern dishes are for K_u band signals, which are more like (very roughly) 15 GHz.
[doublepost=1498504519][/doublepost]Trying to get myself back on topic: @ptitSeb What area of the software development for the Pyra do you expect to be working on? Do you expect to be able to shed some light on the 4 GB problem? Or will you we working with the software at a level further from the hardware?

 

[ptitSeb]

@Pyramancer : the Pyra I have received is a 2GB model, and anyway my area is not realy lowlevel stuff.
I'm more on the software repo populing side of thing...

 

[Grench]

Except that, IIUC, it is illegal in many (all?) ITU member jurisdictions for an unlicensed individual to operate such an intentional radiator with an antenna with higher gain than that with which it manufactured. In some jurisdictions it might even be illegal to make the modification. (Of course, there wouldn't be much point in making the modification when you can't use the modified system anyway.)

So, everyone who has ever built their own antenna would be a criminal?
Keep in mind, adding a reflector in no way actually changes the power output of the antenna. It simply directs the existing power. No additional amplifiers are involved.

WiFi typically uses spectrum around 2.4 GHz or 5 GHz, so very definitely microwaves. [Microwaves are typically defined as 1 GHz to 100 GHz; sometimes 300 MHz to 300 GHz.] FWIW The big old satellite television dishes were for signals around (very roughly) 5 GHz; If I remember correctly, the more modern dishes are for K_u band signals, which are more like (very roughly) 15 GHz.

The dish portion of these units doesn't care what the frequency is - it is just a collector. The actual antenna is contained in the lund. The antenna is tuned to the desired frequency at the lund - which normally constitutes a simple loop of wire at a specific length and gap. The physics of the dish itself are not overly complicated. It is simply a curved mirror for collecting (or bouncing) radio waves from (or to) a fairly specific direction.[/quote]

Agreed that this whole antenna topic got a long ways off the rails. Still, those 802.11n adapters as I noted above are pretty sweet. Being able to change the antenna's position for best reception has shown advantages. Router behind you? Don't transmit through the screen, flip the antenna straight down and transmit under the Pandora/Pyra. Most WiFi routers in public buildings have a horizontal transmitter antenna. Point the antenna sideways and horizontal to where you see the router on the ceiling to get marginally better reception.

Getting the internal WiFi tuned better is the best option - sounds like that is being worked on - so back to solving @ptitSeb's issue.

Since he's near the router, any one of the USB options that has a driver in the OS should work.

Also, if I can bring in another alternative, has anyone considered using a USB 2 to Ethernet adapter? I would love to know if one of these + a USB 3.0 OTG adapter would work:

https://www.amazon.com/SEDNA-Multi-Function-Gigabit-Ethernet-Adapter/dp/B00XU2ZSIY
https://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Slim-Ethernet-Unitek-Converter-Networking/dp/B01MZBFC9K
https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-SuperSpeed-Gigabit-Ethernet/dp/B00BBD7NFU

In order:
USB 3.0 hub + gigabit Ethernet + SDXC reader
USB 3.0 hub + gigabit Ethernet
USB 3.0 gigabit Ethernet

 

[ptitSeb]

I already have 2 USB Dongle, both seems to be base on a Realtek chipset. It's supported by the system, but I cannot connect on my router (WPA2 protected). I have to dig more about that issue.

 

[Grench]

I already have 2 USB Dongle, both seems to be base on a Realtek chipset. It's supported by the system, but I cannot connect on my router (WPA2 protected). I have to dig more about that issue.

This one worked well on the Pandora and has WPA2... (same as I listed above).
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA1NV0KU3574

You -could- turn off WPA2 on your router, but then you could also simply chuck those old insecure adapters and spend the $10 to get one that handles WPA2.

I just stumbled on a new (faster?) version of the above.

https://www.amazon.com/Wideland-600Mbps-Wireless-Adapter-10-4-10-12/dp/B01MYGETQJ

Apparently it uses an RTL 8811AU. Is that supported?

 

[ptitSeb]

Oh, you should know that those 2 USB Dongle works perfectly on the Pandora with my router and my current security settings.

 

[Grench]

Oh, you should know that those 2 USB Dongle works perfectly on the Pandora with my router and my current security settings.

Hmm... Since the USB 802.11 sticks are multiple years old there might be different versions of the driver files - the Pandora OS might actually have a more current version than the nascent Pyra OS? There was a period of time I recall Notaz had added/updated several wireless dongle drivers for the Pandora. If you search or provide up the wireless chipset info, I'm betting there will be several people tripping over each other to help. We all want your work to go as smoothly as possible - it directly benefits us all.

 

[Djoga'Ro]

So, everyone who has ever built their own antenna would be a criminal?
Keep in mind, adding a reflector in no way actually changes the power output of the antenna. It simply directs the existing power. No additional amplifiers are involved.

If I'm not mistaken, here in Germany there are limits on what "power density" you're allowed to output. So let there be a power ooutput of X, you're allowed to produce if you emit it spherically, but are not allowed to if you concentrate/focus it in a certain direction (thus surpassing said allowed density).

 

[levi]

Oh, you should know that those 2 USB Dongle works perfectly on the Pandora with my router and my current security settings.

From the depths of my memory, I vaguely remember having trouble with wifi on my eeepc when I was using debian. This may be of use, although it's for getting a realtek ethernet card working on debian, I remember having to add the non-free repos to my debian sources file back then.
https://unixblogger.com/2016/08/11/how-to-get-your-realtek-rtl8111rtl8168-working-updated-guide/

FWIW, I'm on Arch now and probably thanks to their less principled view on binary blobs and so on, it just works there. I think it's /usr/lib/modules/[version]/kernel/net/mac80211/mac80211.ko.gz which claims to contain various rt* modules that makes mine work, though I may be mistaken.

It may be worth plugging them into your pandora then doing an lsmod into less and searching for 'rt'.

 

[rygD]

I wonder if I am on the FCC's Most Wanted list. I know people that do worse than me and Grench, so I doubt it.

It would suck if everyone that has USB wifi thingies for their Pandora can't use them with their Pyra. Although there are far more important things to work on, I can get the relevant info for mine if we are starting a list with the ones ptitSeb has.

I wonder if Eldritch will be ported early on. My CC Pandora wasn't up to playing it. (HINT HINT)

 

[Silent-Hunter]

Eldritch would be nice, as would Half-Life!

 

[Pyramancer]

my area is not realy lowlevel stuff.
I'm more on the software repo populing side of thing...

Great. The repo also is important.
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So, everyone who has ever built their own antenna would be a criminal?

No. Not in the parts of the world I'm familiar with anyway. It depends what the antenna is used for.

If the antenna is just used as a listening antenna, then I doubt it breaks any regulations, except for those that forbid "eavesdropping" [which I think are an overregulation, an unwarranted interference by the regulator with the freedom of the regulated; if the Emperor chooses to go about naked then there is nothing wrong with people observing him so.]

But yes, (again in the parts of the world I'm familiar with) it is against the regulations to use an antenna you've built for transmitting unless you have a license (and operate within the constraints of that license), unless the equipment meets the requirements for unlicensed operation.

For intentional radiators meeting the requirements for unlicensed operation (such as WiFi radios), the regulations explicitly forbid the use of an antenna with a radiation pattern different from that of the antenna supplied by the manufacturer with the equipment (unless the replacement antenna type has also been approved for use with the system).

Maybe you can get around this by making the entire WiFi radio yourself, I don't know. But then you would certainly still run afoul of the part of the regulations that limit the field strength per unit distance for unlicensed intentional radiators.

Keep in mind, adding a reflector in no way actually changes the power output of the antenna. It simply directs the existing power. No additional amplifiers are involved.

The gain is from the modified antenna system, no amplifier required; the reflector focusses the transmitted power in the desired direction, increasing the power density (as Djoga'Ro says), thereby increasing the field strength at a given distance from the transmitter. This is what has the potential for interference with other users of the same spectrum.

Not interfering with other users of the spectrum, is, I think, the most important part.

 

[Splintercat]

I remember having wifi adapters that you had to disable hardware encryption handling to get them to work with Linux (at least until the drivers were updated)
https://askubuntu.com/questions/405644/slow-wireless-with-rt2800pci is an example of the commands.

so 'sudo modprobe -r <driver>; sudo modprobe <driver> nohwcrypt=Y'.

I've had good luck with wifi adapters that were marketed as Raspberry Pi compatible. Like this adapter: Edimax-EW-7811
Though my pandora happily used the other adapter mentioned earlier, other devices I own did not. Though that external antenna is nice.

 

[Grench]

Back on subject for @ptitSeb's tasks...

Is there a good place/way that the rest of us can see a list of what gets ported onto the Pyra?

 

[ible]

probably the repo... at least eventually.

 

[Pyramancer]

Back on subject for @ptitSeb's tasks...

Indeed...

Is there a good place/way that the rest of us can see a list of what gets ported onto the Pyra?

Thinking about this question made me realise that there is a pronounced fuzziness in my mind about Pyra software:

Will we be able to install and run packages directly from the Debian repository -- at least for packages that are architecture independent or that are architecture dependent but have an ARM version?

Or is the OMAP5 sufficiently different that it won't run generic ARM software usefully? If so, will changes to make that software also run on the Pyra be welcome upstream?

Or is the porting mainly to make games make optimum use of the Pyra key layout and screen size?

Or ... ?

Sorry, I wasn't around for the Pandora, so some of this is a bit more mysterious to me than it might otherwise be. Although, IIUC the Pyra is a more "normal" machine than the Pandora was, so maybe Pandora knowledge/lore is not relevant here?

 

[Eight Bit]

Will we be able to install and run packages directly from the Debian repository -- at least for packages that are architecture independent or that are architecture dependent but have an ARM version?

Or is the porting mainly to make games make optimum use of the Pyra key layout and screen size?

These are correct afaik

 

[Swordfish II]

Indeed...



Thinking about this question made me realise that there is a pronounced fuzziness in my mind about Pyra software:

Will we be able to install and run packages directly from the Debian repository -- at least for packages that are architecture independent or that are architecture dependent but have an ARM version?

Or is the OMAP5 sufficiently different that it won't run generic ARM software usefully? If so, will changes to make that software also run on the Pyra be welcome upstream?

Or is the porting mainly to make games make optimum use of the Pyra key layout and screen size?

Or ... ?

Sorry, I wasn't around for the Pandora, so some of this is a bit more mysterious to me than it might otherwise be. Although, IIUC the Pyra is a more "normal" machine than the Pandora was, so maybe Pandora knowledge/lore is not relevant here?

I was also thinking about software. For instance Pandora has panplayer2. Would Pyra get its own video player or would it be vlc from the repo? Will mupen be compiled for the Pyra or will it be the repo version?

I realize a lot of this will be who decides to port things and/or who notices things need to be optimized for the Pyra. I'm not concerned, more curious.