Well, a technology related soundtrack made with hammered dulcimer, hurdy-gurdy and frame drum would certainly be something new.
PGS Windows 10 gaming handheld - GPD WIN competitor
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
comradekingu
Glowing ember
That is exactly what I had in mind. Some high-fi low-fi chiptune-like glory.
We can follow your instrument and the Pyra to completion and production.
[doublepost=1468448606,1468437547][/doublepost]
Update on this answer:
https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/rul...-proceedings/mail-internet-or-telephone-order
Mail, Internet, or Telephone Order Merchandise
16 CFR Part 435
Rule Summary:The Rule, issued in 1975, requires sellers who solicit buyers to order merchandise through the mail, via the Internet, or by phone to have a reasonable basis to expect that the sellers can ship within the advertised time frame, or, if no time frame is specified, within 30 days. The Rule also requires that, when a seller cannot ship within the promised time, the seller must obtain the buyer’s consent to a delay in shipping or refund payment for the unshipped merchandise.
So the question becomes, has KS obtained such a consent. Well, at least it tries to:
https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use?ref=footer
"…This is what you’re agreeing to when you create or back a Kickstarter project. …
When a creator posts a project on Kickstarter, they’re inviting other people to form a contract with them. Anyone who backs a project is accepting the creator’s offer, and forming that contract.
Kickstarter is not a part of this contract — the contract is a direct legal agreement between creators and their backers. Here are the terms that govern that agreement:
The thing is Kickstarters defence goes multiple layers deep. You may be able to trigger their 125$ clause for liability. And you btw sign away rights to take action towards them too.
From a non-legal standpoint, i suppose your best odds are to generate negative publicity about it on social media and see what happens.
Some courts in America, which I imagine you would need to travel there or be a citizen to utilize, have ruled that Kickstarer funders provide goods similar to retail chains, which establishes law of prior precedence.
Then there is international law, and who knows?
Unless you are a legal mastermind, you wont be getting more than you went in with, and chances are, it wont be worth it either.
So if something smells fishy, over the side of the boat it goes.
We can follow your instrument and the Pyra to completion and production.
[doublepost=1468448606,1468437547][/doublepost]
Update on this answer:
https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/rul...-proceedings/mail-internet-or-telephone-order
Mail, Internet, or Telephone Order Merchandise
16 CFR Part 435
Rule Summary:The Rule, issued in 1975, requires sellers who solicit buyers to order merchandise through the mail, via the Internet, or by phone to have a reasonable basis to expect that the sellers can ship within the advertised time frame, or, if no time frame is specified, within 30 days. The Rule also requires that, when a seller cannot ship within the promised time, the seller must obtain the buyer’s consent to a delay in shipping or refund payment for the unshipped merchandise.
So the question becomes, has KS obtained such a consent. Well, at least it tries to:
https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use?ref=footer
"…This is what you’re agreeing to when you create or back a Kickstarter project. …
When a creator posts a project on Kickstarter, they’re inviting other people to form a contract with them. Anyone who backs a project is accepting the creator’s offer, and forming that contract.
Kickstarter is not a part of this contract — the contract is a direct legal agreement between creators and their backers. Here are the terms that govern that agreement:
- The Estimated Delivery Date is the creator’s estimate. The date listed on each reward is the creator’s estimate of when they will provide the reward — not a guarantee to fulfill by that date. The schedule may change as the creator works on the project. We ask creators to think carefully, set a date they feel confident they can work toward, and communicate with backers about any changes. "
The thing is Kickstarters defence goes multiple layers deep. You may be able to trigger their 125$ clause for liability. And you btw sign away rights to take action towards them too.
From a non-legal standpoint, i suppose your best odds are to generate negative publicity about it on social media and see what happens.
Some courts in America, which I imagine you would need to travel there or be a citizen to utilize, have ruled that Kickstarer funders provide goods similar to retail chains, which establishes law of prior precedence.
Then there is international law, and who knows?
Unless you are a legal mastermind, you wont be getting more than you went in with, and chances are, it wont be worth it either.
So if something smells fishy, over the side of the boat it goes.
Exophase
Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.
Latest bit of desperate activity for today:
- PGS team member once again talks at length about how passionate he is about gaming and handhelds, as if that matters at all.
- The post a video that has a bunch of quick clips from random games stitched together, claiming that it's running on "the prototype" even though some of them actually have watermarks from other YouTubers on them! And of course it's all set to more cheesy generic movie-trailerish music. Who do they think they are convincing?
- Say they're holding a contest where the community decides on an indie game to bundle with the PGS and the game's developer gets awarded $15,000. So, they are already allocating money not towards developing the thing and fulfilling their KS obligations but trying to lure in more buyers for the next round. As if including some sub-$20 indie game is going to make a difference. Also, did they consider that most super successful indie developers (the kind that'd win a poll) would probably not license their game to a platform for a mere $15k?
- PGS team member once again talks at length about how passionate he is about gaming and handhelds, as if that matters at all.
- The post a video that has a bunch of quick clips from random games stitched together, claiming that it's running on "the prototype" even though some of them actually have watermarks from other YouTubers on them! And of course it's all set to more cheesy generic movie-trailerish music. Who do they think they are convincing?
- Say they're holding a contest where the community decides on an indie game to bundle with the PGS and the game's developer gets awarded $15,000. So, they are already allocating money not towards developing the thing and fulfilling their KS obligations but trying to lure in more buyers for the next round. As if including some sub-$20 indie game is going to make a difference. Also, did they consider that most super successful indie developers (the kind that'd win a poll) would probably not license their game to a platform for a mere $15k?
comradekingu
Glowing ember
This gaming project challenges my imagination more than most things… Put that in the PR-machine and quote it.
Exophase
Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.
Happens every time someone posts something online that people don't want to hear.
As if GPD doesn't have better things to spend their money on than convincing people to not contribute to a KS project that is full of warning signs.
vcoleiro1
Hardcore Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2011
- Messages
- 4,685
As a side note, GPD have banned posts about the PGS on their Chinese GPD forum. Wade, the GPD WIN project sponsor, stated that it wasn't because it's a competing device, but because he believes it's a hoax and doesn't want people to be suckered in by it. There's a thread he started there about it. People seem to have the same view and reiterate the feeling. Some funny enough , have quoted posts by members here and dingoonity , stating that even westerners believe it's dodgy.
Funny thing is, on Dingoonity, PGS showed us their final draft a day before they went live. We told them not to go ahead with that , stating the obvious violations to KS rules , lack of prototype etc. We also said that it would turn into a Coleco Chameleon type fiasco if they went ahead. And now the rest is history
Funny thing is, on Dingoonity, PGS showed us their final draft a day before they went live. We told them not to go ahead with that , stating the obvious violations to KS rules , lack of prototype etc. We also said that it would turn into a Coleco Chameleon type fiasco if they went ahead. And now the rest is history
Last edited:
rygD
Nihilistic Mystic
@Exophase is a GPD shill, so everyone should consider clicking that ignore button.
Oh, @vcoleiro1 is, too.
Oh, @vcoleiro1 is, too.
Exophase
Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.
Found the PGS shill.
vcoleiro1
Hardcore Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2011
- Messages
- 4,685
Oh dear, ED just weighed in on the PGS KS comments.
"
Michael Mrozek (OpenPandora GmbH) less than a minute ago
I haven't written anything for a while, as I already stated my opinion and suggestíons a few days ago... but.. I just couldn't hold back. But this will be my last post here. Promised.
This is directed to all the Fanboys here:
Seriously, I love great ideas and awesome products. I love when a small team tries to accomplish something. I really, really do. I always loved small companies who try to achieve something more than a huge company just producing one thing after another.
I would LOVE it if the PGS would be real. It would be a great product.
And usually, I'd say it's great if a project has so many believers who defend it against trolls.
However, sometimes, you need to take off your pink glasses and look realistically at a project and posts.
Seriously, multiple experienced people who KNOW their stuff have expressed their concern about this project.
Too cheap, not enough time, no existing prototypes, just commercial videos and the only thing we know about the team is that they are experienced in creating movies and commercials.
All videos we've seen so far are fake, and that's a fact you can't deny.
The prototype is no prototype, it's an empty printed case with a 3rd party tablet and a game controller connected (something anyone can do within a couple of days).
You asked for game tests on the prototype, instead you get a video with stock music and random game trailers cut together.
The main video is professionally created - but what does it show, except for papers with designs, actors, stock footage and stock audio?
Yes, professional looking videos can deceive you easily, you automatically think that's real, as the video is so much convincingly.
But look at it again, think about it:
What they are trying to achieve within that little time, with that little money and most probably no experience is simply NOT possible. That's what multiple people who work in that business confirmed as well (myself included).
All those who you call "trolls" initially tried to warn you. Make you think about whether you really believe whether the goal can be achieved or not - or whether it's just a dream which could turn into a nightmare.
Ask yourself: What did PGS show you so far? What proof did you get that shows they know what they're doing?
* No prototype
* A team which does NOT have any proof to be experienced to pull this through
* A claim that they can increase the performance by 50% (yeah, right...)
* A video showing game trailers which had been "tested" to run on the prototype. Where is the proof for that?
* Changing stretch goals
It's been 2 weeks with tons of replies and 15 updates, but actually NOTHING new has happened.
You think much has happened? What? Just mention what REALLY has happened.
And seriously, you think GPD hired guys to troll here? Are you really thinking that?
Have I been hired by them as well? And all the other sceptical guys here?
I will leave you now, as said, I will not post again.
I just advise you to think everything through.
Are so many guys trolling, trying to rob you of your dream?
Or could it be they are warning you about it, as it is way too unrealistic, without any proof?
Think about it, as you won't be able getting your money back once Kickstarter is finished.
If you REALLY still believe in everything here, that's fine.
I don't want to FORCE anyone here to retract the money.
I just want to advise you to think everything through, that's all.
Thanks for reading, and I'm off
"
"
Michael Mrozek (OpenPandora GmbH) less than a minute ago
I haven't written anything for a while, as I already stated my opinion and suggestíons a few days ago... but.. I just couldn't hold back. But this will be my last post here. Promised.
This is directed to all the Fanboys here:
Seriously, I love great ideas and awesome products. I love when a small team tries to accomplish something. I really, really do. I always loved small companies who try to achieve something more than a huge company just producing one thing after another.
I would LOVE it if the PGS would be real. It would be a great product.
And usually, I'd say it's great if a project has so many believers who defend it against trolls.
However, sometimes, you need to take off your pink glasses and look realistically at a project and posts.
Seriously, multiple experienced people who KNOW their stuff have expressed their concern about this project.
Too cheap, not enough time, no existing prototypes, just commercial videos and the only thing we know about the team is that they are experienced in creating movies and commercials.
All videos we've seen so far are fake, and that's a fact you can't deny.
The prototype is no prototype, it's an empty printed case with a 3rd party tablet and a game controller connected (something anyone can do within a couple of days).
You asked for game tests on the prototype, instead you get a video with stock music and random game trailers cut together.
The main video is professionally created - but what does it show, except for papers with designs, actors, stock footage and stock audio?
Yes, professional looking videos can deceive you easily, you automatically think that's real, as the video is so much convincingly.
But look at it again, think about it:
What they are trying to achieve within that little time, with that little money and most probably no experience is simply NOT possible. That's what multiple people who work in that business confirmed as well (myself included).
All those who you call "trolls" initially tried to warn you. Make you think about whether you really believe whether the goal can be achieved or not - or whether it's just a dream which could turn into a nightmare.
Ask yourself: What did PGS show you so far? What proof did you get that shows they know what they're doing?
* No prototype
* A team which does NOT have any proof to be experienced to pull this through
* A claim that they can increase the performance by 50% (yeah, right...)
* A video showing game trailers which had been "tested" to run on the prototype. Where is the proof for that?
* Changing stretch goals
It's been 2 weeks with tons of replies and 15 updates, but actually NOTHING new has happened.
You think much has happened? What? Just mention what REALLY has happened.
And seriously, you think GPD hired guys to troll here? Are you really thinking that?
Have I been hired by them as well? And all the other sceptical guys here?
I will leave you now, as said, I will not post again.
I just advise you to think everything through.
Are so many guys trolling, trying to rob you of your dream?
Or could it be they are warning you about it, as it is way too unrealistic, without any proof?
Think about it, as you won't be able getting your money back once Kickstarter is finished.
If you REALLY still believe in everything here, that's fine.
I don't want to FORCE anyone here to retract the money.
I just want to advise you to think everything through, that's all.
Thanks for reading, and I'm off
"oh harsh, this is such a trainwreck already. how can anyone still be so dellusional to believe this crap. I bet the idiot who edited that latest pgs video noticed missing those watermarks by now and is jumping around the "office" yelling and kicking himself ^^
ZXDunny
Deep avatar
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2010
- Messages
- 2,585
I'm predicting that the whole thing will be pulled at the last minute due to negativity from competing companies' fans which caused too many people to retract their pledges, rendering the project non-viable, followed by a "This is why we can't have nice things" moral, couched in flowery language.
rygD
Nihilistic Mystic
ED touched on a lot of things I feel. I would love for it to be made, especially by a small company, and there are some really good ideas. A good idea doesn't get you very far if you can't make it happen. Oh well...
Gr8one
Member
- Joined
- May 3, 2016
- Messages
- 40
- Age
- 43
It's mind boggling that without any proof how many people have backed them, and believe in them. It's sad really that this kickstarter has gotten this far without being shutdown. I'm sad for the backers who are going to lose money, I am angry that they won't listen to reasonable comments and call everyone that doesn't worship PGS trolls and haters. I have tried to give PGS the benefit of the doubt but they continually show nothing to prove they have anything planned. I don't even believe they have good intentions at this point and this isn't anything but a scam.
rygD
Nihilistic Mystic
Looks like they gained back some numbers on the backers and money from when I checked a few hours ago.
If anyone reading this feels like giving away money please contact me.
If anyone reading this feels like giving away money please contact me.
levi
Still fresh, damnit!
Not sure how you read that. Yesterday was a decided step backwards in terms of funding at least, and today doesn't seem to be starting off in the right direction (for the founders at least):
Wrath Of Khan
Soul soother...
Its certainly making for a very entertaining drama though- I'm enjoying it. The prototpye's lower case is entirely hollow, lol; and it does look like a tablet stuffed into a printed case. Coleco Sham-eleon eat you heart out.
It's somewhat of an indictment of human psychology that so many backed this and still extoll its apparent virtues.
It's somewhat of an indictment of human psychology that so many backed this and still extoll its apparent virtues.
rygD
Nihilistic Mystic
It is updated regularly, so I check it every few hours. They were less in the hole when I posted that than they had been a few hours earlier (so they got new backers), however they lost even more since then, dropping lower than they were when I first checked.Not sure how you read that. Yesterday was a decided step backwards in terms of funding at least, and today doesn't seem to be starting off in the right direction (for the founders at least):
I have been wondering how they would handle that since they started losing money, and that is why I was watching that graph.
[doublepost=1468471512,1468471393][/doublepost]And they are back over 350k again, as of right now.
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