PGS Windows 10 gaming handheld - GPD WIN competitor

[rygD]

I think the projection trend is averaging what they already have and calculating what they would have at the end of the campaign if that average continues. While I have been watching that projection number has also been dropping.

Edit: It seems my slowness is continuing today...

 

[comradekingu]

Stage 12 Even Comical Ali feels the fatigue of war.

Today's post goes a little in-depth and explores the sociology aspect.
This and earlier posts updated as news surface.

 

[Exophase]

So lately they've been saying that the retail price of PGS will be significantly higher than the KS price. They say that the whole reason they moved to KS is because their would-be investors insisted they sell at an actual margin (who would think that'd happen). But they say that'd compromise their vision of selling it as cheaply as possible.

But apparently that vision only applies to KS backers?

Rings rather hollow to me. It's just a loss leading strategy, that would probably blow up in their faces even if they were capable of building this thing.

EDIT: I said earlier they were flipping back and forth between claims on retail pricing, that was my mistake, I misread their latest update because of incorrect English tense on their parts.

 

[rygD]

And a new backer and more money again at some point recently, so new people are still getting duped.

 

[EvilDragon]

I haven't watched the video yet, but my question is wouldn't it make more sense to add the heatsink later to show how well it cools it off? As I understand it heat will continue to build up under load, so...

It wouldn't cool off. Temperature would cool down for a few seconds until the heatsink is warm as well.
A heatsink spreads the heat, it adds more surface where the heat can spread, so you won't have hot spots.
Temperature would rise slower, until the surroundings are all warmed up.

See this as a room with closed windows and a heater:

The room is the heatsink, the heater the SoC, the window a fan.

The smaller the room will need about 5 minutes to heat up.
The larger room needs about 10 minutes to heat up.

But they won't cool off until someone opens the window (= switches the fan on).

As a heatsink is exposed to fresh air, it cools down a tiny bit - but not so much to in a mobile phone sized case that it wouldn't step down after a while.
You'd need a fan to actively replace the warmed air with fresh one.

So the only REAL test would be:

1. Run the test with a heatsink on.
2. Let the board cool down completely and redo the same thing without heatsink.

Removing / adding the heatsink WHILE the board is running is no proper test.

Wow, scary. My 150W GTX560 GFX card heats up to ~75°C max at full load, pretty warm but nothing to worry about, even in a Mini-ITX case. But 78°C into an tiny, passive cooled Handheld device? Thats just insane.

That's nothing scary, it's the same with the Pyra and all other modern SoCs.
They are not meant to run with full strength for a longer period of time.

Also, keep in mind that the GPU Temperature sensor is INTERNAL. The real temperature of the SoC will be lower.

 

[hlidegp2x]

I reported to KickStarter that GPS may break several rules and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. KickStarter is not always quick to act and probably does it in the last days. But at least, I know another project I also reported and they suspended it at the 36th day (campaign of 45 days) while there is no doubt a lot of backers reported a long time ago: PillarHub. They were not communicative at all unlike GPS but they have no prototype and was allegedly accused to be using a mashup of two ASUS monitors. Their prices were also too ridicule. I think GPS may know the same fate.

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Removing / adding the heatsink WHILE the board is running is no proper test.

Exactly that's why I told this update is WTF: what the point of such test? removing the heatsink in the middle of the video while the GPU is hot? if they want to lose credit, they are 100% successful.

 

[jeeks]

... We are not selling the PGS here, we are collecting funds to support its development. ...

Lol, then make your campaign video about the development process and not about the product itself.

In the video, the guy talks about the device as if it's finished and ready to hit the shelves. It's not about how the company is going to develop their unique hardware, it's not about their team gushing about the awesome technology they'll use to make it happen, and it's not about funding an industrial prototype to show off to potential investors.

The style of the video plus the option to "order" by funding the project of course makes people think that the device is (nearly) finished. Sure, they're not really selling it, but hell, is it that hard to notice (especially for someone who has worked in advertising before) that the whole campaign is so incredibly misleading?

And now those weird "discoveries" they make. I don't even know. It's as if they're trying to scare off their backers.

 

[rygD]

ED, I am now wondering about the heat issue with the Pyra again. I need to go back and read the old threads, I guess.

Lol, then make your campaign video about the development process and not about the product itself.

They can't do that because it is a totally different type of campaign then, and they aren't allowed to offer the finished product as a reward when the goal of the campaign is to fund development of a prototype. This is why they are making up their own definition of prototype. Also, since they are not doing any development (which they admit) there is nothing to show. All they are doing is playing with products from other companies, one of which isn't related to their own project (I haven't confirmed this myself).

 

[jeeks]

They can't do that because it is a totally different type of campaign then, and they aren't allowed to offer the finished product as a reward when the goal of the campaign is to fund development of a prototype.

A campaign with a {shiny final product} reward for {not too much}$ certainly looks better than one with the promise for a second campaign which might or might not happen that probably has a {not so shiny anymore} reward for {more than you expected}$.

Also, since they are not doing any development (which they admit) there is nothing to show.

Oh right... Even staging fake interviews with the "team" would've required some knowledge they lack. Hiring actual professionals would have solved... oh wait, never mind, if they had done that, we wouldn't have such a long thread here

 

[rygD]

They can have someone write them a script.

 

[Klumpen]

They can have someone write them a script.

A certain Mr. Rothwell comes to mind.
Maybe he isn't yet part of the team.

 

[erico]

The absurdity has reached an unbelievable level. I can´t even consider this a scam anymore, it really must be some kind of experiment. The amount of attention in doing things wrong is unaturally perfect.
I´m going to start to speculate that this is a top secret gov campaign to demoralize Russia!

 

[comradekingu]

So PCB-design is said to begin after the campaign, make that latest of July. Certainly no earlier.
Preproduction is set for August. Right. August being the month right after July, with time to make a custom PCB in between, is the problem there.

 

[Exophase]

I don't think I've ever seen a KS campaign start bleeding backers this consistently. Even Smach Z only had one day at -1 before they cancelled.

 

[Gr8one]

I don't think I've ever seen a KS campaign start bleeding backers this consistently. Even Smach Z only had one day at -1 before they cancelled.

They used some extremely poor judgement in their recent updates. There are still some who truly believe in the PGS, but for those on the fence they effectively shoved them off. The video was insulting to everyone's intelligence, the pricing update was a waste of words and a load of bullocks with no concrete information, and their "gpu test" was just silly. We will see how much they bleed with future updates. They are very quiet on the comments today probably scrambling to put together something to improve faith.

I think they would lose more but their early bird prices draw new backers in thinking they are getting a great deal.

 

[Yoyobuae]

I think they would lose more but their early bird prices draw new backers in thinking they are getting a great deal.

There's probably a lot of backers which are holding off before backing their pledge, specifically waiting for the new "prototype" they keep promising.

I predict that if PGS pulls off yet another misleading and seemingly dishonest video showing that "prototype" backers will leave en masse. We already know that they won't show real prototype with custom PCB since they already stated that it wont be. But they so clearly act as if they are hiding something, I mean, actually showing their hack-job "prototype" would probably push away some backers, but NOT showing anything physical at all is not doing them any favors either.

Come on PGS, show some courage/honesty and show everything in full. Show various boards, the wire mess, the non-working case. At this point showing something messy and REAL it's their best option. But yeah, that probably won't happen.

 

[WizardStan]

They're still over 340% of their goal; they could bleed $15'000 a day and still make it at the end, and that may be all they're hoping for, just $100'000 to do... who knows what with. Point is that they've already proven they're not too clever, there's no reason to think they're smart enough to pull out early enough to save face.

 

[hlidegp2x]

or the project may be suspended by Kickstarter as it was the case with PillarHub.

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

PGS - Perfectly Good System.
Pernicious gaming System

 

[vcoleiro1]

Don't forget that the comments are filled with people saying "I'll give it to the last few days, then if nothing concrete is shown, I'm pulling out". It's the most common comment.

So unless something very convincing is shown - and they said they have no plans for such - then expect a last week exodus.