Pandora Pricing - What Price Would You Pay?

[BaDToaD]

People saying they will pay any price for the Pandora, that is absolutely ridiculous. So it is small, big flipping deal. For $500 you can pick up a laptop that can do everything a Pandora does, plus choose whatever kind of OS you want to load up on it.

You are right, I am not a average community member, I will never be a developer and I am just looking at the Pandora as a gaming alternative. But I know damn well I am not the <b>only</b> person here like that. The price isn't going to appeal to everyone and I am sure there will be plenty of people who wait for some sort of price drop.

Then at least have respect for us that are average community members and have been here for years. We are the people that gave the input to Craig and co on what we wanted the Pandora to be and how much we wanted to pay.

While the Pandora was still only an idea we were here discussing it. People like you have only arrived since the Pandora has become a more visible device. If you don't like what it costs then don't buy it.

 

[scarath]

We don't have any plans at the moment to make the price higher, note that the UK price of £199 includes taxes/VAT.

I really dont understand anyone that says that ~£200 for what the Pandora can do is 'expensive'. ~£200 is really nothing if you are going to use this thing to its full potential! And thats the problem, some people seem to just want the Pandora as an MP3 play/web browser, or just an emulation device, well yeah, if you use it for only 1 or two things its expensive, if you plan to really get stuck into this thing the small cost is irrelevant.

Also, so its £100 more than a DS or a PSP, can either of those do what the Pandora can do? No

 

[BaDToaD]

I still keep hearing the eePC being mentioned as competition for the Pandora. I can't figure out why as there are *no gaming controls* on it. The eePC is a laptop, not a gaming device. To me there is no comparison between them.

There are no gaming controls on my PC either but I spend more time playing games on it than all my consoles put together.

Of course the eePC is competition for the Pandora. There are plenty of people that will want to use their Pandora for non gaming functions and there are plenty of people that use eePCs for gaming. The fact that the eePC will be better at for some PC functionality and the Pandora better for some gaming doesn't mean they won't be competing products.

In an ideal world I'd like both but I'll be getting a Pandora but if the Pandora hadn't come along I would have probably already spent my money on an eePC!

 

[_VWV_]

QUOTE
Imagine somebody invented a flying car and said it is going to cost $75,000. Some people would complain that they could get a nice regular car for $20k, so $75k for a flying one is way too expensive. Meanwhile, the rest of us would be taking out home equity loans because some loony is practically giving away a fracking flying car for only $75k.

So maybe $330 is more than you can afford to spend on a luxury item. Maybe you really don't need all the extra functionality Pandora offers. The fact is we already know it is being designed on a shoestring budget and being sold on a margin that a large electronics company wouldn't touch with a ten foot tax writeoff. At this point, the price is what it is. You can't demand that Pandora be sold at a loss to compete with other (highly subsidized) handhelds that aren't in the same league.


I strongly disagree with you. Because I don't think the Pandora is a luxury item. Luxury items have strong background and support for customers. The Pandora is a device for people willing to spend some time with it. We should remember, that a user should be at least a Linux geek to use all the potential that the Pandora has.

Luxury items usually offer all of their functionality immediately after you get one. All you have to do is press a button and show begins. Do you really think it is going to be like that in case of the Pandora? My answer is NO. Or let's say not in the first year. Will have to wait a bit for some nice staff to appear. And the main word here is WAIT. Some competitors will appear buy that time - that's for sure.

Speaking about your example: imagine yourself buying a flying car and the seller says there's no navigation stuff inside and you have to be an engineer just to turn the engines on, coz it's a bit complicated. Do you really think it's a luxury item? Well, I can't agree with you.
Maybach is a luxury item, because you don't have to think about anything but enjoyment. People from Mercedes Benz will think about everything else.

“You can't demand that Pandora be sold at a loss to compete with other (highly subsidized) handhelds that aren't in the same league.”
Yes, but if I’m offered a UMPC of the Pandora size with the power of modern +1000W computer for only 10000$, I’ll say no.. because I don’t need one for that price . And I think I’m not the only one.

Prophet
I didn't think you are a secret agent of Craig and co. I just think were all customers here, that is why I though it's strange to hear from customers "+500$ for the current price doesn't matter a thing for me". If we really wish the Pandora to be a successful device, we should make as much pressure as we can to make it as cheap as possible.

 

[trooper]

Edited _VWV_ post, To make it more readable.

Trooper

 

[scarath]

I strongly disagree with you. Because I don't think the Pandora is a luxury item. Luxury items have strong background and support for customers. The Pandora is a device for people willing to spend some time with it. We should remember, that a user should be at least a Linux geek to use all the potential that the Pandora has.

Luxury items usually offer all of their functionality immediately after you get one. All you have to do is press a button and show begins. Do you really think it is going to be like that in case of the Pandora? My answer is NO. Or let's say not in the first year. Will have to wait a bit for some nice staff to appear. And the main word here is WAIT. Some competitors will appear buy that time - that's for sure.

I strongly disagree, that is your definition of luxury, to a linux dev nerd a system pre-build for hacking may be luxury and to a normal main-stream gamer the same item may be next to useless. One persons luxury is another's ass hat, and it goes both ways.

 

[Karel Jansens]

On the other hand I don't expect the Pandora being as suited for word processing and surfing the web

I processed many words with my Psion 3a and 5mx. I surfed distant webs with my Nokia N800.

In the end, it all depends on the software: Psion's wordprocessor was finely tuned for small screen and ditto keyboard; the N800's web browser (the Opera one, the new one sux mammoth balls) shines on the small screen.

I wouldn't want to use OpenOffice.org on the Pandora (not without quickly losing my eyesight, that is), but something like LyX might do: It is display-independent and uses smart formatting (actually, it's typesetting) instead of braindead WYSIWYG. The downside is that it needs a lot of storage space, because it depends on LaTeX and a PostScript or DVI previewer.

 

[xmart]

I know what a huge undertaking the design and creation of this is (I work in a company building electrical deviced). Starting from scratch with a PCB design takes *a lot* of work. I couldn't begrudge the Pandora team for wanting to turn a profit on the device - it would result in future developments.

That said, if the price stays at 200pounds including VAT, I might still jump for one after they've been out for a little while and keeps getting good feedback.

 

[craigix]

QUOTE
Imagine somebody invented a flying car and said it is going to cost $75,000. Some people would complain that they could get a nice regular car for $20k, so $75k for a flying one is way too expensive. Meanwhile, the rest of us would be taking out home equity loans because some loony is practically giving away a fracking flying car for only $75k.

So maybe $330 is more than you can afford to spend on a luxury item. Maybe you really don't need all the extra functionality Pandora offers. The fact is we already know it is being designed on a shoestring budget and being sold on a margin that a large electronics company wouldn't touch with a ten foot tax writeoff. At this point, the price is what it is. You can't demand that Pandora be sold at a loss to compete with other (highly subsidized) handhelds that aren't in the same league.

Luxury items usually offer all of their functionality immediately after you get one. All you have to do is press a button and show begins. Do you really think it is going to be like that in case of the Pandora? My answer is NO. Or let's say not in the first year.



Actually we do plan for it to work like that, all the ground work has been done on the gp32 and gp2x. It's not going to take long at all for fantastic software to show up (a recompile of the best gp2x stuff won't take long) - this is why 100 pre-release consoles will mostly be going to devs and we are developing a nice easy to use interface like the EEE.

 

[Chip]

I strongly disagree with you. Because I don't think the Pandora is a luxury item. Luxury items have strong background and support for customers. The Pandora is a device for people willing to spend some time with it. We should remember, that a user should be at least a Linux geek to use all the potential that the Pandora has.

I meant "luxury item" in the economic sense, not the marketing sense. Luxury item = non-necessity.

Nobody needs a Pandora. After paying for things like food and rent and car insurance, some people don't have the kind of discretionary money left over to justify a $330 gadget. That doesn't make them cheapskates, but it also doesn't mean that Pandora is "too expensive". To quote myself:

The fact is we already know it is being designed on a shoestring budget and being sold on a margin that a large electronics company wouldn't touch with a ten foot tax writeoff. At this point, the price is what it is. You can't demand that Pandora be sold at a loss to compete with other (highly subsidized) handhelds that aren't in the same league.

That is the meat and potatoes (in a substantive sense, not an agricultural sense) of my argument. The finished device contains components that have a fixed cost. Assembling them incurs a fixed cost. There is an absolute price for making the Pandora, and after you figure in a margin just big enough to make the whole thing worth doing, there is an absolute minimum price they can sell it for. Guess what? That price is $330.

 

[Fishbong]

~320$ is actually very inexpensive. A highend PDA will cost you about 100$ more, won´t come close to the Pandora´s performance, have no gaming controls, no real keyboard, just one memory slot, no TV-out etc.

Actually, it will take me some time to save up the needed money, since i´m a poor student.

But seeing what the market offers as alternatives, it is simply impossible to complain.

 

[javaJake]

I don't think the Pandora is a luxury item.

Googled "define:luxury" and I got this:
QUOTE
something that is an indulgence rather than a necessity


So, unless you need the Pandora to buy your butter and bread, there's no doubt it is a luxury item.

We should remember, that a user should be at least a Linux geek to use all the potential that the Pandora has.

Not at all! If you've followed the discussions around here about installing software, the operations are very easy! It'll either be software that goes and fetches applications for you, or it'll be simple copy-and-paste operations on a PC with the Pandora plugged in via mini-USB. With the applications installed, all you need to do is run them, and the Pandora's potential is put in use.

 

[ssj195]

I'd definitely pay the target £200 price as it seems like a dream come true: PDA-like functionality with a touchscreen and keyboard with all the flexibility that comes from these features, *and*, unlike most PDAs, it it optimised for playing games and watching movies! It just sounds like a great pocket-sized travel-companion (oo-er), and I'm happy to give Craig and co my money for making something like this a reality, and keeping it open and hackable.

 

[Parkydr]

I think the price is right for what it does, but there's got to be some clever marketing to get the target audience right.

I doubt there are enough Linux geeks to make that a viable market and a lot of them are probably tight arses like me The low price of the GP2X was a big plus - although I would love to develop for the Pandora, the price is not one I can personally justify while my GP2X (which is inferior, but good enough) works, although if I was in the market for a new handheld it would be the Pandora.

The gaming side as got to be pushed, else what differentiates the Pandora from the much more well known EeePC, but for gaming superior hardware isn't everything - e.g. the DS and Wii. A lot of gamers are always wanting their next commercial release every few weeks.

 

[Rigor Mortis]

I think the expected price point is fine. The Pandora's size alone makes me happy in the pants, and it's cheaper and better than going the multimedia PDA route.

I had a GP32 but missed out on the GP2X cause I figured I'd just hack PSP..... which I still haven't gotten around to....

The Pandora guarantees I never will

 

[Alt Scythe]

It is pretty damned expensive. I would appreciate a lower cost but I wouldn't mind paying that much as long as it gives a bang for my buck (which it better )

 

[_VWV_]

Chip and javaJake

I agree with the definition you've mentioned. But what if a person wants to buy a handheld? According to your definition any handheld is a luxury you can live without it. I think this definition doesn't help us to choose one handheld device and drop another.
Prophet has come out with a nice example of what I'm trying to say. Yes, Pandora is better to my taste but it's an option, a competitor running any OS you want, internet-enabled (it's a cell phone, there must be something like EDGE, or even something better) is a threat.

That is the meat and potatoes (in a substantive sense, not an agricultural sense) of my argument. The finished device contains components that have a fixed cost. Assembling them incurs a fixed cost. There is an absolute price for making the Pandora, and after you figure in a margin just big enough to make the whole thing worth doing, there is an absolute minimum price they can sell it for. Guess what? That price is $330.

I do understand that (though it seems like you are not quite sure I'm able to ). And I'm not against the current price. Or let's say, I want it to be lower, but if it won't be lower, than it is still ok for me. I don't want the price to get higher. Because I'm afraid that in the later case the Pandora will lose competition with other gadgets. Just imagine that the Pandora costs 400$ - that is almost comparable to the device that Prophet has mentioned. So there is a price limit for the Pandora. The market won't agree with any price just because the components cost a lot.
I do agree that the price will be as low as possible, I do agree that Craig and co won't get rich the next day Pandora is out. But I can readily imagine that if a company like Nokia decides to create a device like the Pandora, they will make it cheaper, than Craig and co, not because they have better devs for that. Just because the can afford a wholesale purchase of the components. That is why I think it is impossible to increase (!!) the price to whatever level is necessary. As far as I understand if you purchase a mainstream component you won't get a big discount. But when you purchase a high-end component you pay its build costs + some additional money just for buying a high-end thing. I think Nokia will be able to reduce significantly the second price component, and Craig won't be able to do that.

Not at all! If you've followed the discussions around here about installing software, the operations are very easy! It'll either be software that goes and fetches applications for you, or it'll be simple copy-and-paste operations on a PC with the Pandora plugged in via mini-USB. With the applications installed, all you need to do is run them, and the Pandora's potential is put in use.

And what if I want to install something that was not precompiled for the gp2x or for Debian arm? Something like this. Will it be that easy?

Actually we do plan for it to work like that, all the ground work has been done on the gp32 and gp2x. It's not going to take long at all for fantastic software to show up (a recompile of the best gp2x stuff won't take long) - this is why 100 pre-release consoles will mostly be going to devs and we are developing a nice easy to use interface like the EEE.

I hope I'm wrong here and the GUI will be released sooner, and it will be easy to recompile things if you need something special. But any way.. my point here.. please don't make it cost 500$ .
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember you said that the Pandora might not suit everybody, and other companies were preparing some devices witch might be more suitable for someone. Let me disagree with you. I think that if the price remains the same the Pandora will be a strong competitor for any handheld or a UMPC, or a sub notebook of the EEE kind. Though it doesn't automatically mean the Pandora will be a top seller (for marketing reasons).

 

[javaJake]

And what if I want to install something that was not precompiled for the gp2x or for Debian arm? Something like this. Will it be that easy?



Not as easy, no. However, there are plenty of people around here who can help someone figure it out. Besides, this particular software wouldn't be an easy package on any device, even if it had x86, because you have to compile it.

I will say there are some software that will be hard to port. I will also say that there are plenty of people willing to help, and that the amount of times that happens will be relatively low compared the successes. After all, not all software is a green "go" in Windows either, but most are.

 

[Kayday]

I would gladly pay the $350 or up just because I love handhelds. You get what you pay for and I believe what the Pandora has to offer is worth every penny. Plus, I love the fact that I can pull out the Pandora in public and have people wonder what it is I'm using. Then I can start my sales pitch and get more people interested in the Pandora.

 

[skeezix]

Its the Zodiac problem --

ITs too expensive to gamers (compare DS, PSP) and too gamey for PDA geeks....

.. but wait, that second one may have changed. (ie: EEE wouldn't have flown a few years ago either, but is off the shelf now.)

I think its a big win, but its a hard sell to people who just want a game console.

For them, they can stick with their gp2x, JXD, PSP, DS, and so on..

jeff