Pandora Pricing - What Price Would You Pay?

[Squidge]

How can you know you don't like a post if you haven't read it? Kind of a catch 22 don't you think :B

There's some truth in that

 

[x68000]

If you see 'Mr B' on the left hand side of your screen, take that as good warning to run a mile if you don't enjoy pandora criticism!

Personally, i think it is this kind of alternative view which sparks a good debate. Nothing worse than a flock of sheep baaaaaa-ing at each other in agreement.

 

[lubidog]

The problem with Mr B is that he says the same things over and over again, and he talks about things he just doesn't know about. He says that as a game machine the design sucks. How does he know that? Has he held one? Or is it a guess based on looking at pictures. He should say imo the design sucks, but I have never held one. And the fact that it has passed the DaveC test means a lot to me, but not to him...

And there are NO alternatives to the Pandora like he says. What other handheld which is as powerful as this has a small keyboard? Or a touch screen? And don't say the eee because a. I have one and b. although you can and people do play games on it, it is a laptop and this is NOT! Nor is it trying to be! It is a gaming/multimedia machine with internet capabilities. The masses spoke in the poll on whether the thing should have a keyboard. The masses wanted one. Not because we really believe we are gonna have the full internet experience on it but because we wanted to be able to do light surfing, read and write small emails and PLAY GAMES WHICH NEED A KEYBOARD AND DIDN'T WANT TO HAVE TO CARRY EXTRA STUFF WITH US!!!! Can you understand that? Mr B???? Because in this respect, for what most of us want the design DOESN'T SUCK?

The thing is, we know what you 'believe', and it is good that you have the freedom to say it. But you've said it now, so please say something else or keep stumm. And your 'opinions' aren't facts. Sorry. And please don't be so arrogant to assume, that because of your posts here Craig's business is going to suffer. People can see what the product is, and make up their own minds.

Okay?

 

[x68000]

I have to agree that the comment about the in-game blurring on a psp being an effect, sort of discredits his other comments a little, but he did have some valid points from the ones i have read here.

The pandora has been touted as more than just a gaming system so comparisons with umpc's were always going to happen. Granted it's not exactly a good looker, but it does look functional and that has to have been the main design objective. As long as it feels good to hold and play with (fnar, fnar) all this talk of bad design etc will surely be soon forgotten.

 

[Prophet]

The pandora has been touted as more than just a gaming system so comparisons with umpc's were always going to happen. Granted it's not exactly a good looker, but it does look functional and that has to have been the main design objective.

That's one aspect I'm curious about yet - what the final "real thing" will actually look like in person.

Renders only tell you so much.

I know a lot of us here are adults, and while I'm all for the idea of doing your thing and not worrying about others opinions, I'm kinda hoping the Pandora can pass for a UMPC type device in public... :unsure: If little kids come up to me asking if I have Pokemon (well, even if I do!) then I won't be too happy... Heh. But if other adults come up asking if I can do email on it etc... that'd be cool (i.e. eeePC type response).

I guess I'm really looking at it as 60% UMPC, and 40% handheld game system. I'd love to be able to get some real-world usage from it, and then play some games before bed with it. That sort of versatility would truly make it worth the money.

I wonder how others are seeing it? I'm sure there's a broad spectrum here in that respect. Mr.B represents one end (the gaming only end) and I won't be surprised if there are some Pandora-curious people who don't really plan to play many games at all.

That little keyboard really elevates the versatility of this device. Marketed correctly, I think Pandora team could well go onto even bigger things in the future, depending on how this first project goes. Afterall, every big company starts someplace small. Maybe I'll buy Pandora stock someday.

 

[x68000]

It's interesting to see how different people see Pandora (UMPC, Gaming h/held etc) and after years of reading Prophet's posts, you can see what a gadget freak he is, so a converged device makes good sense for someone who wants additional capabilities other than just a Open Source games system.

This will probably be the key to the systems success ~ the additional features it brings.

oh, and back on topic - I think that £250 would be my max.

 

[Mr B]

How can you know you don't like a post if you haven't read it? Kind of a catch 22 don't you think
Not my problem really. I found it worthwhile writing the post, and you have to decid if you want to ignore the entire thing, or read it, and try to forget the parts you didn't like later..

Personally, i think it is this kind of alternative view which sparks a good debate. Nothing worse than a flock of sheep baaaaaa-ing at each other in agreement.
I'd agree with you, and hence I'm still here, even with the admins quite clearly preferring a "baaa-baaah." It could also be argued that I'm simply to stupid to shut up.

The thing is, we know what you 'believe', and it is good that you have the freedom to say it. But you've said it now, so please say something else or keep stumm. And your 'opinions' aren't facts. Sorry. And please don't be so arrogant to assume, that because of your posts here Craig's business is going to suffer. People can see what the product is, and make up their own minds.

1 All we have is belief, none of us have touched an actual product, so your total conviction in its greatness is equally "wrong" if you wanna go there.
2 Yeah, everyone not agreeing with you should be allowed to say so once, and then instantly vanish. Makes it much easier to tell everyone else "there are no (other) critics."
3 My opinions are of course just my opinions. What are yours? On what grounds are your opinions better then mine?
4 And I'm the arrogant one.
5 I never said anything that even remotely indicates that my opinion will affect the products sales. I have repeatedly said that i think the current concept will fall short of the hardwares capacity, and that a slightly different packaged product would sell much better.

I have to agree that the comment about the in-game blurring on a psp being an effect, sort of discredits his other comments a little, but he did have some valid points from the ones i have read here.
Not being an owner, i haven't had as much time with a PSP as one could wish for, but for the units I've been in touch with, i haven't suffered from any ghosting, but did see a clear motion blur, and light trails from lights. Not the characteristic ghosting a slow LCD gives. Guess i have to look for it the next time i have a PSP in my hands.

I wonder how others are seeing it? I'm sure there's a broad spectrum here in that respect. Mr.B represents one end (the gaming only end) and I won't be surprised if there are some Pandora-curious people who don't really plan to play many games at all.
Of course there are all sorts of people. Thing is there are loads of manufacturers providing a "all purpose" unit, but until now only one providing a open dedicated gaming console. The market for the first is bigger, but the sharing the buyers with a lot more mainstreem brands, sold in PC shops, home electric appliances markets, and pretty much everywhere else... While the market for the second pretty much would sell the device to it self, and have no real competition. (Yes, this is my opinion. (Better point that out so nobody mistakes it for facts))
B!

 

[JerryG20]

And don't say the eee because a. I have one and b. although you can and people do play games on it, it is a laptop and this is NOT! Nor is it trying to be! It is a gaming/multimedia machine with internet capabilities. The masses spoke in the poll on whether the thing should have a keyboard.

From the official website:

QUOTE
What is the device designed for?
It is designed as an ultra portable open source computer with gaming controls.

???

Does not really follow with your post lubigod. Notice how the gaming is put with the "WITH," and the primary is "open source computer," but you say the reverse. This is kind of like what Prophet wanted in his post based on the description online. I always thought it would be 65% gaming and 35% UMPC, but the online description is more like Prophet's Ratio.

I think the price is already high enough as it is and we shouldn't need to pay more to help these guys profit more. WHY? Well, THEY already chose the price in the first place, so they already decided on the price with the right amount of profit in mind, it is not like they forgot that they have to feed themselves when they priced the gadget. It is not our place to have the cost go up so that they can have more profit (not saying they don't deserve it, but I would figure they would have already decided on their own fair profit margin when given the original price quotes). Please leave the price alone (which it looks like is what they are doing).

 

[Kings]

I voted for $350.

Right now that looks very expensive at first, mostly because of the lack of software. Considering that right now and for a better part of the year, the actual development will be more valuable than the hardware. You don't buy a system for the hardware, you buy it for what it runs. And a piece of hardware that fits in a pocket and simplifies everything from work to gaming is worth some money. As apposed to a folding brick.

 

[JakeK]

I think it is extremely difficult to judge the design of the Pandora when all we have are renders.

 

[Rigor Mortis]

Y'know, the one thing that would make me be willing to pay any price for the Pandora would be if I knew the it would put smug Macbook air owners in their place... all high & mighty with their computer that fits in a manila envelope, and BAM I whip out a UMPC that fits in my shirt pocket. :lol:

 

[gruso]

Y'know, the one thing that would make me be willing to pay any price for the Pandora would be if I knew the it would put smug Macbook air owners in their place... all high & mighty with their computer that fits in a manila envelope, and BAM I whip out a UMPC that fits in my shirt pocket. :lol:
Heh, Pandora has more connectivity than the Macbook Air too. To really make their jaws drop, put together a bogus iTunes skin for Pandora's media player. Then tell them what you paid for it. Then play games in front of them.

 

[lubidog]

And don't say the eee because a. I have one and b. although you can and people do play games on it, it is a laptop and this is NOT! Nor is it trying to be! It is a gaming/multimedia machine with internet capabilities. The masses spoke in the poll on whether the thing should have a keyboard.

From the official website:

QUOTE
What is the device designed for?
It is designed as an ultra portable open source computer with gaming controls.

???

Does not really follow with your post lubigod. Notice how the gaming is put with the "WITH," and the primary is "open source computer," but you say the reverse. This is kind of like what Prophet wanted in his post based on the description online. I always thought it would be 65% gaming and 35% UMPC, but the online description is more like Prophet's Ratio.

I think the price is already high enough as it is and we shouldn't need to pay more to help these guys profit more. WHY? Well, THEY already chose the price in the first place, so they already decided on the price with the right amount of profit in mind, it is not like they forgot that they have to feed themselves when they priced the gadget. It is not our place to have the cost go up so that they can have more profit (not saying they don't deserve it, but I would figure they would have already decided on their own fair profit margin when given the original price quotes). Please leave the price alone (which it looks like is what they are doing).



@Mr B-The same old points over and over again! Blah blah blah. The reason people here are tired of you is because you don't debate, you don't listen and respond-you just say the same thing over and over again. Blah blah blah. Is it so important to you that you have to 'win'?

And that description on the site fits perfectly with what I wrote-ie. it ain't a laptop!

I want that keyboard on it, doesn't make it a laptop...

 

[Mr B]

@Mr B-The same old points over and over again! Blah blah blah. The reason people here are tired of you is because you don't debate, you don't listen and respond-you just say the same thing over and over again. Blah blah blah. Is it so important to you that you have to 'win'?
In all honesty, i cant remember a single response that did argue, which i didn't argue back at. Most the responses aren't really trying to argue tho. They are just trying to tell me "your wrong, go away" while there is no such thing as right or wrong when it comes to opinions such as these. Your of course entitled to your opinion, as am i, and we both clearly have a right to present it, especially in a thread like this, that asks us for our opinion, and to put a price tag on it.
You might not like it, but it's my humble opinion that a tabletop, with a onscreen keyboard and gaming controls on each side of the screen would make the unit meet the demands of more people then the current design. It would be cheaper to make, cheaper to buyer, and less prone to failures. (No, not a quality issue, or my ability as a seer playing in. But fact is more things that can break, means more things that do break. In this case hinges, and keyboard buttons.) It would also, as i said b4, address a different buyer crowd, the dedicated gamers who want a open portable platform, where there is no competition, as compared to the UMPC buyers, where there is loads of competition.
Since i respect your right to an opinion, I've clearly stated that i don't see this happening as is now, but that i hope the dev's are open minded enough to consider it, should there come a day when they realize that the current design have come up against to hard competition. By then there will be a problem such as making the onscreen keyboard appear to software as the original keyboard, simply to keep software working with both designs.

B!

Edit
Oh yeah... My fear is that i cant really see how i would lose. Since we currently only have opinions, only time can tell who was right, and then there are pretty much only 2 ways to tell. They go bankrupt and nothing is heard of the Panda after that, or they make the second design, and its either a better seller, or a worse seller then the primary design. For obvious reasons i hope they don't go bankrupt, and with the current approach here on the forum, i have a hard time seeing them going back and making a second design.
/Edit

 

[JakeK]

I really doubt that a second design would be made. This isn't the GP2x dev team we are talking about, different guys.

I have absolutely no knowledge of Linux and limited (very) in coding. After buying the F200 I have always wished it was a clamshell to protect the screen.

keyboard buttons don't really break unless the user does something to them. Same with a hinge. If you bash it will break, if you treat it like the how it should be then nothing will go wrong. Thinking that just because you have more hardware equals more breakages is just pesimistic thinking and doesn't further your argument at all.

Craig has shunned you, "And with that Mr.B vanished off the face of the forum and took his trolling & PSP with him. Never again did he return to say the same old things over and over again just like a certain Epicenter used to.

The End. "

Does that not say anything to you? He likes it the way it is.

BTW you don't know how the market really works, you are just maing wild assumptions that a device with a feature you like will do better.

 

[x68000]

BTW you don't know how the market really works, you are just maing wild assumptions that a device with a feature you like will do better.

I don't think there is anything wrong with making wild assumptions considering we are all guilty of it at one time or another on here. The problem for some guys is that they just don't like what Mr B is saying.

I like to think that i'm reasonably well tuned in to all things video games and homebrew and I see some of his points as valid.

Some members just need to allow others the courtesy to express their opinions, without fear of retaliatory comments whether they like what they hear or not.

 

[Prophet]

I agree with X68000.

Mr.B presents his opinions and doesn't represent them as anything more or less than opinions. So nothing wrong with that.

And honestly, every community NEEDS a few dissenters and naysayers. It keeps everyone on their toes, and sometimes, every now and then, such people really do have a useful point.

Look at our friend DaveC. People used to give him a hard time for being so harsh on controls and hardware inadequacies. Then one day he actually created a solution to improve things, and suddenly people were paying him to improve their controls, and he was deemed a guru when it comes to doing controls properly.

Point is - don't alienate critics too much. Sometimes they see what many people miss, and we all benefit. I see Mr.B as a critic, not a troll.

 

[centrlink]

Aye. With the greatest of respect to Dave C, I have not always agreed with him, but nobody can doubt the contribution he's made.

You can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time. If you like the Pandora, buy it, if you don't, well, don't.

I like, so I buy

 

[Mr B]

I really doubt that a second design would be made. This isn't the GP2x dev team we are talking about, different guys.
True, but i don't see what would make these guys less willing to make money, if they at a time sense there are more sales to be made from this. As i said, i have no doubt the hardware is more then capable.

keyboard buttons don't really break unless the user does something to them. Same with a hinge. If you bash it will break, if you treat it like the how it should be then nothing will go wrong. Thinking that just because you have more hardware equals more breakages is just pesimistic thinking and doesn't further your argument at all.
A friend of mine once said.. Ok, so Murphy isn't a friend of mine, but i still like him.

Murphy's Laws:

1. Nothing is as easy as it looks.
2. Everything takes longer than you think.
3. Anything that can go wrong will go wrong.
4. If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. Corollary: If there is a worse time for something to go wrong, it will happen then.
5. You never run out of things that can go wrong.
6. If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.
7. If you perceive that there are four possible ways in which a procedure can go wrong, and circumvent these, then a fifth way, unprepared for, will promptly develop.
8. If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.
9. It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
10. Whenever you set out to do something, something else must be done first.
11. Every solution breeds new problems.

3 4 5 7 and 9 all point to the obvious, a more complex device will suffer more failures.

Does that not say anything to you? He likes it the way it is.
Sure he does, and why shouldn't he? If nothing else he needs to keep pushing trying to sell his product. However, unless he really dislikes the idea of making money, and getting profit, i don't think he wouldn't go back and redo the design, if it turns out they sell less then what they expected, and feel they could make more profit with a different design. Provided of course that they can afford to go back and redo the design. So, by all means, buy 2 Pandas, or more, if you feel it does what you want it to. The more sales they actually get, the more likely it is they will make a second design.

BTW you don't know how the market really works, you are just maing wild assumptions that a device with a feature you like will do better.
Yeah, and you of course know the in's and outs as the back of your hand. Your assuming this is an ideal design, and your basing this on... What really? That the features match your wish list?
Actually, this device matches pretty much all the items on my wishlist, but adds a bunch of features i never wished for, and as in every case where you pay for what you get, less is more. Same reason as Bluetooth, GPS or an accelerometer isn't included. So, really, what makes your assumptions better then mine? I've been accused of being arrogant, but at least i don't see myself as better then the rest of the people here.

Point is - don't alienate critics too much.
Luck is with you today mate. I'll be more or less active as i feel like it, but to alienate me enough to silence me, i doubt anything short of shutting down the forum would do. And no, i wouldn't ever resort to spamming, hacking, or otherways missbehave. I would create a new account, and keep going as usual. Well, some probably see that as spamming, and missbehaving anyway, but none the less.

If you like the Pandora, buy it, if you don't, well, don't.
Yes, by all means. Buy. You like it, and need more then one? Buy plenty. Craig&Co deserves as much, if nothing else so for daring to try, daring to risk some to gain some. Just cause i don't agree with the product design doesn't mean it hasn't got potential. As i said further up, the more units sold, the more likely to be a redesign on the same core components. And thats important to me, and to developers. Having 2 different platforms that to software doesn't look alike, wont work. Sure, a second design could be a second generation device, meaning faster cpu, more memory, bigger screen, and yada yada, but everything must be 100% backwards compatible. And just for the record, i already know this second generation device might never happen. But i put emphasis on might.
B!

 

[JakeK]

True, but i don't see what would make these guys less willing to make money, if they at a time sense there are more sales to be made from this. As i said, i have no doubt the hardware is more then capable.

Wouldn't you think that if they thought more money was to be made in a different design they would have changed the design already?

A friend of mine once said.. Ok, so Murphy isn't a friend of mine, but i still like him.

Murphy's Laws:

1. Nothing is as easy as it looks.
2. Everything takes longer than you think.
3. Anything that can go wrong will go wrong.
4. If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. Corollary: If there is a worse time for something to go wrong, it will happen then.
5. You never run out of things that can go wrong.
6. If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.
7. If you perceive that there are four possible ways in which a procedure can go wrong, and circumvent these, then a fifth way, unprepared for, will promptly develop.
8. If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.
9. It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
10. Whenever you set out to do something, something else must be done first.
11. Every solution breeds new problems.

3 4 5 7 and 9 all point to the obvious, a more complex device will suffer more failures.

I had to chuckle a bit, because I read number 11. So really a different simpler design will make no change in the amount of problems that could go wrong with the current design.

This Law isn't fact, it is a statement that was made by some person that many people agree with. Pure coincidence if these were to actually happen. Anyone who really believes in such a thing is a pesismist.

Sure he does, and why shouldn't he? If nothing else he needs to keep pushing trying to sell his product. However, unless he really dislikes the idea of making money, and getting profit, i don't think he wouldn't go back and redo the design, if it turns out they sell less then what they expected, and feel they could make more profit with a different design. Provided of course that they can afford to go back and redo the design. So, by all means, buy 2 Pandas, or more, if you feel it does what you want it to. The more sales they actually get, the more likely it is they will make a second design.

If they sell successfully on the current design why would they make another? Console systems such as the Xbox sold many units but they didn't go and redesign because of demand, they just upped production. They only redesign because of better technology. If the Pandora was to be technologically out-dated (by a big margin) then we might see a redesign to fit in the new technology, but I doubt we'd see a controls change.

Yeah, and you of course know the in's and outs as the back of your hand. Your assuming this is an ideal design, and your basing this on... What really? That the features match your wish list?
Actually, this device matches pretty much all the items on my wishlist, but adds a bunch of features i never wished for, and as in every case where you pay for what you get, less is more. Same reason as Bluetooth, GPS or an accelerometer isn't included. So, really, what makes your assumptions better then mine? I've been accused of being arrogant, but at least i don't see myself as better then the rest of the people here.

I didn't say it was the ideal design, I said that I like the clamshell design as it protects my screen. I have voiced my opinion in such things as keyboard text, colour and finish of the Pandora. I didn't say I knew the in's and out's of the handheld market. What you did was "These are the things I like in a device and this is how the market is."

"a tabletop, with a onscreen keyboard and gaming controls on each side of the screen would make the unit meet the demands of more people then the current design."