News from all fronts

[tarator]

All in all it feels a little bit like we are in a treatmill to me. You see progress and it goes forward but somehow this streches infinite without reaching the finish line. I hope there will be final results soon without further "tweaks" needed.

You might be better off checking the forum only once every three months. If you develop something new (no matter if it's software, or hardware) and you don't encounter problems, or you are never forced to rethink/restructure something, then there are three options:
* The thing you are producing is nothing really exciting.
* The product will be crap in the end.
* You're a f***ing genius!

Pick one

 

[fusion_power]

You might be better off checking the forum only once every three months. If you develop something new (no matter if it's software, or hardware) and you don't encounter problems, or you are never forced to rethink/restructure something, then there are three options:
* The thing you are producing is nothing really exciting.
* The product will be crap in the end.
* You're a f***ing genius!

Pick one

OK!:
"* You're a f***ing genius!"

 

[Foxgod]

Thanks for the update, i am still excited as ever!

 

[zonova]

Thanks for the news, this is amazing!

 

[matzesu]

Thanks for the Update,
I think whe should go whit the Rotator Ship, because it would be make more work to redesign the display board whitout the chip..
Working Prototyphs, whit MP Cases for Gamescome sounds good.., even if i ditnt go to games come..
Looking forward for the Progress that will follow..

 

[bzar]

Is there going to be issues with later CPU boards that don't have a TILER-like component to them without the rotator chip? Isn't solving this again one more thing to do for every CPU board in the future?

 

[Agricola]

Is there going to be issues with later CPU boards that don't have a TILER-like component to them without the rotator chip? Isn't solving this again one more thing to do for every CPU board in the future?

Exactly. This and the fact we don't know much about TILER and have no clue if it's gonna work without slowdowns and high latency makes me still want to have the Solomon rotator. But it would be amazing to have the choice between no picture compression (if TILER does that) and no latency. I guess we'll see in the next few weeks what will happen about it...

 

[Grench]

Monday, we'll work together on the physical aspects, on Tuesday we're discussing about colors (also for the aluminium metal frame).

Thank you for the news update! I am particularly happy to see the above (bold added by me) statement. Having the aluminum metal logo frame black to match the shoulders, nubs & controls and maybe even the stylus would, IMHO, be perfect.

The only case 'color' that black wouldn't go well on would be, "clear". For those clear cases - the shoulders, nubs, stylus - everything should be 'clear', think "Superman's Ice Palace". But then, what to do about the logo plate? Polish the aluminum into a mirror. I'm betting you could charge an extra 25 EUR or so for an 'exclusive' clear Pyra.

For every alternative but clear cases, though, black aluminum frame, black shoulders, black nubs, black stylus. That should fit nicely regardless of the main case color whether it be black, grey, blue, green, purple, yellow, red, white, beige, other.

 

[pyrat]

Is there going to be issues with later CPU boards that don't have a TILER-like component to them without the rotator chip? Isn't solving this again one more thing to do for every CPU board in the future?

Well, I don't know anything about the chips or wirings, so I trust the project has better people to decide this, but I don't understand your argument. Possibly because I'm uniformed.
In case the OMAP can be made to produce rotated images without any performance or freedom issues, removing the rotator chip seems like:

• slightly lowers costs (BOM and maybe rotator driver development, assuming the rotator driver is not already complete, and the TILER driver does not cost more to develop)
  
• sligthly? lowers power budget
  
• potentially accelerates video ? (passing through one less chip?)
• simplifies design and so potentially reduces bug count

A future CPU board upgrade is not certain. If it happens and the new CPU has no TILER equivalent, it could integrate the rotator chip in the upgraded CPU board, couldn't it ? (maybe not, I have no idea, but I'd need a reason why not. Wouldn't it fit or something ? ).
So only those who need a rotator pay for it (in money, battery, heat, bugs, complexity, whatever). A future upgrade needing a rotator sounds like a risk with low probability and low impact (because can be solved by adding
a rotator to the upgraded CPU board). So I dont' see how mitigating it now compensates for duplicated functionality in the 1st generation design. Kind of premature optimization ?

Intuitively I can't see a reason for duplicating functionality. But until someone proves it can be done with the OMAP it is moot. I guess it is still not proven to be possible with the rotator yet ?
On the one hand one video seems to have it working, on the other I think I read drivers were not ready for the rotator, so maybe the video was with software rotation or something?
So very happy that both paths are kind of researched in parallel.

It looks like a reasonable justification for delaying a little to research the possibilities.

But I'm mostly pulling this out of my **** . I'm sure anyone who understand the electronics can think this by themselves. The only constructive thing I can say is "don't hurry, take the time you need to decide this".

Edit: I'm assuming the CPU board interface is intended as custom, not as a kind of standard like Luke does with EOMA-68. In that case I would understand the rotator belonged to the screen device, not the CPU board. But if CPU boards for pyras are not expected to be usable in other devices, then you are free to add the rotator to eventual CPU boards.
Edit2: No, wait. If it was a standard the standard might say something about whether screens are expected to be portrait or landscape and that might make it more reasonable to add a rotator chip to the cpu board or the display board. But it wouldn't have to say the screen needs to be portrait or that the rotator belongs to the device.

 

[sm0kew0n]

I'm betting you could charge an extra 25 EUR or so for an 'exclusive' clear Pyra.

I'm betting you're right! 25 euros at the ready....

Thanks for the update, soon I'll have to think about excuses (read lies) as to why there is another tiny computer in the house.

 

[Urben]

Keeping the rotator chip might be a good idea if future SOCs need it.

Thanks for the update

 

[___]

awesome! hooray for getting some developers interested. I am not holding my breath for any revelations, but chances seem to be quite good, that they'll be able to contribute massively!

 

[Yoyobuae]

TILER doesn't cause an additional copy of the framebuffer (like doing the rotation in the gpu would), it is integrated in the memory controller and swizzles addressing and data as it passes through.

Hmm, but does the "swizzling" happen when the framebuffer is written to or when it is read from? I think it would be best if it happened when the buffer is read to display data to screen, so that existing programs/X server need no modification to work with it.

 

[zmatt]

Hmm, but does the "swizzling" happen when the framebuffer is written to or when it is read from?

Both, but more in a non-default orientation of a framebuffer than in the default orientation.

I think it would be best if it happened when the buffer is read to display data to screen, so that existing programs/X server need no modification to work with it.

Existing application don't need modification regardless since TILER is doing the swizzling, not the application. (It is for several reasons still preferable though to let the cpu use the default orientation and have the display subsystem use the rotated view.)

 

[FaeMinx]

I'm betting you're right! 25 euros at the ready....

Thanks for the update, soon I'll have to think about excuses (read lies) as to why there is another tiny computer in the house.

No need for lies here... I've just been patiently planting seeds and stating my case for years now.

You have to plan waaay ahead if you need people who don't see things your way to be in line with your vision when the time is right.. *you also have to know your audience*

There is no question I am getting a Pyra (if it is at all possible)... The only question is when and how... and that depends on a number of factors... not least of which is how responsible I choose to be with my business and where profits should be allocated. ..

Good thing the Pyra will perform a vital work function in my exploits... so its really just about timing...

 

[kabaiakh]

I'm betting you could charge an extra 25 EUR or so for an 'exclusive' clear Pyra.

I mean I'm in !

 

[matzesu]

Whit clear, do you mean a Pyra where you see the Guts??
Transparent..
I also would like a Transparent Pyra, and i would also charge 25€ for it..
As long the Clear Pyra got the same thoughtness and scretch resistencse as the normal Pyra

 

[directive0]

'm betting you could charge an extra 25 EUR or so for an 'exclusive' clear Pyra.

Yep. Right here. Take all my monies.

 

[rygD]

Sure, just hand it over. I accept PayPal.

 

[ZXDunny]

25 euros for a Clear Pyra? That beats the 600+ I was going to pay. I'm in.