Keymat Layout - the Final Poll!

[ekianjo]

In that case we're not voting what we think is best, but what we think would win if all potential customers would vote.

Then it's even more of a stretch, because that's assuming here as a group we are not completely mistaken about who would use the Pyra out there. It's not like we are market experts for everything in the first place.

 

[comradekingu]

What a shame, only one layout have 3 essential spanish keys.

Sadly we are a minority here... And there are too few keys to include a full international layout anyway. We have to start thinking "Compose + ~ --> n" for ñ, for example, and pick one that allows these kind of combinations in the easiest possible way (same for French, nordic languages, etc.)

Thats luckily not the case. But its very nice for most English users that you thought so.


Keyboards are naturally international, where you can hide dedicated keys ( has to be swappable in this case), a language layer, alternate graphics, compose and all 15 US diactrics.


It doesn't have to look complex to be usable. If you thought so you would get, in comparison to nr.6 which takes the approach of naming letters of languages it doesn't support:

Nr 6                                                                                                                       Nr 8


2 dedicated keys, one too little to be usable for anyone                               |     3, (or 4 if you use shouldershift) swappable dedicated keys, having to Fn+L to do so, or learn where brackets go if you need them


(non-dedicated ä confused with backspace )        


No language layer, 3 named letters                                                               |      language layer on select+, one button+another support for every major european language


Fn confused with AltGr                                                                                  |      real Fn, Real AltGr, alternate graphics (° is supposed to be hidden, not printed twice...)


5 available keys with Fn, out of total of 47 possible                                      |     even if you use 30 for diactrics, F-keys, language swapping and mediakeys, you have 39 available out of 69 possible


non-dedicated compose                                                                                |      dedicated compose on start+


5 US diactrics that are marked                                                                     |     15 US diactrics that aren't


Azerty (and others) not possible                                                                   |       Azerty (and others) possible by moving keys around on keymat.

Dvorak and NEO not possible                                                                      |       Dvorkan and NEO possible by remapping

Layout 8 assumes the spacebar can be used as two distinct keys. I'm pretty sure it can be eliminated as "physically impossible".

ED 17 july: "... we will most probably stick with double space..."

 

[Foxgod]

Even tho i work a lot with Linux and AIX at work, i am going to leave this desicion to you guys i have no idea which layout i prefer....

I am Glad my languages are Dutch and English, both languages have the exact same alphabet, so i have no need for special keys.

 

[Xcl4m4t10n]

I am thinking... Why not to make another poll after this one with the three more voted layouts in order to have a more especific final selection?

 

[Wally]

undexsym say's you're all banned for posting in this thread.

 

[matzesu]

I can see in the Future: the Pyra will be used most time as a Emu Handheld, and some thimes in Yeahr, it will be used to write some things,

so as long i have my normal letters, and german umlauts, im quite happy...

 

[EvilDragon]

That statement DOES make a lot of sense, it's to find out which everyone thinks is the most flawless and most usable ones for EVERYONE out there, not just himself.

You need to set priorities when it comes to make choices - as you said yourself the keyboard cannot be good at everything at once, so why do we have to imagine how it would best fit most uses out there?

Because every single person in the world has different experiences and knowledge. Why should I be better at estimating what is best for most users than others?

I am not. I have different experiences and therefore would probably choose different layouts than others. But that doesn't make me a genius here.

But if EVERYONE thinks about that and does his choices according to that, then we have an average of all our experiences, thus leading probably to the best choice out there.

 

[comradekingu]

That is a selection bias, this community is limited to acceptance of pandora-layout. Which in and of itself is very much contrary to the stated goals.

 

[Neelix]

Because every single person in the world has different experiences and knowledge. Why should I be better at estimating what is best for most users than others?

I am not. I have different experiences and therefore would probably choose different layouts than others. But that doesn't make me a genius here.

This is exactly why we can only vote for ourselves. We only truly know our own preferences. I can't express anyone else's preferences and I can't expect anyone else to express mine. But by having everyone express their own preferences and then aggregating that information we get a good overall view that takes all viewpoints into consideration.

-Neelix

 

[rSl]

proudly voted for "layout 7".


imho the €-symbol could be replaced with "oxi".

 

[Saber]

That statement DOES make a lot of sense, it's to find out which everyone thinks is the most flawless and most usable ones for EVERYONE out there, not just himself.

You need to set priorities when it comes to make choices - as you said yourself the keyboard cannot be good at everything at once, so why do we have to imagine how it would best fit most uses out there?

Because every single person in the world has different experiences and knowledge. Why should I be better at estimating what is best for most users than others?

I am not. I have different experiences and therefore would probably choose different layouts than others. But that doesn't make me a genius here.

But if EVERYONE thinks about that and does his choices according to that, then we have an average of all our experiences, thus leading probably to the best choice out there.

You'd think you would at least know, seeing as you borrowed much from some of the other layouts including mine and added it openly to yours, not to put F12 on Enter or give Escape a Fn/Meta value. Also, the / and ? are far too close to keyboard Fn/Meta. That's a huge mistake if you don't use the Shoulder Fn/Meta trigger, which astonishingly you said you don't but have ignored yourself. For everyone, I'm referring to the layout leader #7 here(which happens to be yours ED in case it wasn't obvious enough by the votes). You also didn't address the ( and ) problem which is that the only keyboard Shift in your layout is on the same side as them, which means the only comfortable way to get them is with Shoulder Shift. 

For the other two second and third place "winners"... 

Layout #1 has Escape key on Fn/Meta + Tab. Great place to put it if you want to accidentally press it. Here too the / and _ are also way too close to keyboard Fn/Meta and F12 is on Enter. Expect the user to hop back and forth with the right thumb over and over for this one.

Layout #6 requires a modifier every time you'd need a number and brightness controls for screen and keyboard backlighting all on one key. F12 is of course on Enter.  The / and ? are too close as well to Fn/Meta. Be prepared to press that button often. Hopefully the print won't wear off. 

Seriously, maybe it's fitting for things to end up like this. The interface for the Pyra is one of the most important things not to mess up but you all rush toward just that goal. You guys are suppose to be smarter than this but maybe the results are deserving. It's disappointing you guys act the part but in actuality don't know any better if this vote is any indication. Really, some of the rotten things wrong with these layouts here I pointed out are just so elementary. It's unbelievably dim. 

 

[Haraldur]

I voted for 7 and 10. 7, I think, is the best compromise we have, and has ESC in the best position. 10 is my second preference (I do not like the extra SHIFT).

 

[EvilDragon]

Sorry to bust your bubble, but Layout #7 is not mine.

 

[Xcl4m4t10n]

Sorry if I am going to say something senseless or if it was answer before but, will we have a way to remap de useless keys for the rest of the people? It seems that the layout 7 is the favorite but for me is totally useless the german symbols so it will be awesome if there's any chance to remap it internally instead of have these keys.

 

[EvilDragon]

Sorry if I am going to say something senseless or if it was answer before but, will we have a way to remap de useless keys for the rest of the people? It seems that the layout 7 is the favorite but for me is totally useless the german symbols so it will be awesome if there's any chance to remap it internally instead of have these keys.

You can always remap anything to your likings.

 

[EvilDragon]

Interesting to see Layout 7 so far ahead compared to others. I wonder why so many chose it.

It has some important keys that are hard to press like ? or / (too close to Meta).

And not-so-often used buttons like é and è are easily accessible.

 

[TrashyMG]

Interesting to see Layout 7 so far ahead compared to others. I wonder why so many chose it.

French conspiracy? http://www.open-consoles.com/t8935-vote-pour-le-clavier-de-la-pyra-jusqu-au-lundi-20-juillet

I actually voted for 7 as my secondary... I'm not a big fan of F12 on Enter, but I could deal with it as I wouldn't be hitting F12 often. 

 

[Neelix]

Interesting to see Layout 7 so far ahead compared to others. I wonder why so many chose it.

It has some important keys that are hard to press like ? or / (too close to Meta).

And not-so-often used buttons like é and è are easily accessible.

This is only actually a problem if you refuse to use the provided Shift and Meta keys on the left shoulder buttons.

-Neelix

 

[Gon]

Interesting to see Layout 7 so far ahead compared to others. I wonder why so many chose it.

French conspiracy? http://www.open-consoles.com/t8935-vote-pour-le-clavier-de-la-pyra-jusqu-au-lundi-20-juillet

Shame! Well, that is certainly a danger with polls.

My preference is layout 10.

Everything is where I expect it to be or easily findable with a quick look. Important keys do not have a second function. Overall, I would say this one would frustrate me the least of them all.

 

[EvilDragon]

Well, as mentioned in the first post: The poll will not decide the final layout.


My plan is to carefully analyze the top winners to find out why people chose them and create the final layout from that.


Analyzing them should give a good indication what's important for most (I.e. ESC without a Meta, etc.)