It's the keyboard layout.

[_wb_]

3. At one point I thought about switching = and +, so there's a symmetry of (-=+). I think it's a net gain for the code-combos score. (It lowers i++, but gains -= and increases /=.) Here's an alternative rearrangement of yours which increases the code combos quite a bit, though it may look a little less symmetric to some:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/73a832d97d3d555a888dee767649badb


(Nice subtle symmetries: operator opposites are vertically two keys apart.)

 
I see your points and I like the subtle symmetries (and the fact that * + / - are in one 'column'), but I prefer to have - and + next to eachother, for programs where they're used for something like zooming in and out or adjusting something. Also maybe for the Compose sequence to produce ±. Minus on the bottom row deviates quite a bit from its expected position.


The symmetry -=+ makes sense in the same way as <=> makes sense. Still I prefer to have -+ and <> as neighbor-pairs.

I understand. I don't mind + on I and - on M, because you can remember it via "Increment" for + and "Minus" for -. You never really need +- together, which is why I put them apart on mine. As for - "too far from normal position", that would be also true of _, which is down by space. In my layout, you keep -_ together.


I like the http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/2cc807dd1656a0703fb8bf12f074357f layout, too, but worry that you've lost some of your symmetries (like ; : on the same line). Although you do increase your code combos ..

My biggest problem with

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/1417479de73c9231d7e258fd0eb779a4


is the mix between ASCII punctuation and language-specific precomposed letters. Having them more separated/clustered seems better than having letters like äüößçñ as a Meta key on their 'natural' letter.

It might be better for "hunt and peck" searching for your meta-symbol (because they'll all be in roughly the same area, so you can narrow it down sooner), but putting symbols on their natural letters (or close thereto) makes it easier to remember, giving a quicker-to-memorize layout, perhaps!

That is a good point if the üöä etc are unlabeled. Then you need to memorize things, and then it helps to have the unlabeled symbols at their "logical" positions.

In my recent proposals, üöä are labeled, so no memory is needed and it's not a big problem to put üöä on Meta+RDF (while RDF have nothing to do with ÜÖÄ). Still, I put the üöä in the same relative positions (triangle with ü on top) as on a normal German keyboard. That means that (hopefully) some 'mental muscle memory' can be kept when Germans are switching between the Pyra keyboard and normal German keyboards.

I did a similar thing with ° and § by the way: on German keyboards these are at the positions where ~ and # are in US-QWERTY; while I can't put them on the right position, their relative position is the same (same row, two keys in between). These symbols § and ° are sometimes used together in legal texts (e.g. § for sections, ° for subsections).

Here's another way to sort the ?;:-=_+  :

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/23dfde80b0c5309a2f8db735d65ea7c0

It deviates more from the US-QWERTY positions (it is a bit closer to the German positions: - on the bottom row, ? on the top row), but it has some advantages:

• = is adjacent to + - /
• ; is in an excellent position for coding (good for ); and ; enter)
• minus/dash is a mashable key at Meta+space, which makes sense because if I had one more dedicated key to spare, I would make it either dash or slash, but probably dash because it is an important punctuation symbol in natural language, command line use and coding
• plus above minus feels natural, and they're both right next to their US-QWERTY same-key symbol = and _
• the C ternary operator ?: notation for (condition ? true-branch : false-branch) is easy to type

 

[ible]

I don't think you'll always want to be looking at your Pyra keyboard when typing. (Maybe that's impossible, I dunno.) By putting umlauts and other symbols on "natural" keys makes it faster to learn where they are, so that you won't have to look at your Pyra all the time. You don't have to memorize a new location for Ñ in my layout, it's just on N. Or Ä, since it's on A. You have a few that make sense, but I have more . You used to as well!

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/1417479de73c9231d7e258fd0eb779a4

I'm making English and German first-class citizens by putting those symbols on their naturally corresponding key. You don't have to "hunt and peck" for the right symbol hiding under a random key. (And based on the Language poll, that's a good thing to do.) And I have a pretty nice pattern/arrangement for the rest of the symbols.

I'm not sure I like http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/23dfde80b0c5309a2f8db735d65ea7c0better than some of your other ones. I think it's "nicer" to remember underscore on Meta+Space than minus-sign, and your other changes/reasons are not very compelling to me. This one http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/2cc807dd1656a0703fb8bf12f074357f might be my favorite.

 

[comradekingu]

Why isnt it on Ñ if you want to let the user not memorize a new layout?  Same with Ä on Ä. It shouldnt be on A.

Memonics like that are fine for interlingual uses, but for native users it doesnt work.

You are making Germans third rate citizens by doing that. Second rate is real keys hidden. It is possible to rectify that by making a german keymat, you will however never change how a german typewriter or keyboard works by removing keys.

 

[ible]

Not enough keys . Also perhaps not a big enough Spanish userbase?

 

[comradekingu]

Put A on A for all languages, and you have enough keys.
 

New users will of course need to be educated, and  I think a good way to make it known to new users that the modifiers are on the shoulder buttons  (and that home, end, etc are on the gaming buttons) is  by putting up a key map as the default wallpaper.

 
I agree that that's a good way, but I think a better way is to actually label the shoulder buttons and gaming buttons with their functions.

 
I think this is starting the argument at the wrong end. New users isnt a static reality. The amount of new users varies with complexity, and the less you have to educate, the more people will pick one up. You dont get a chance to educate, you get first impression and thats it. Failing that, it doesnt matter if the education is the best in the world.

 

Thats not what i said though. I said that dead-diactrics only, fails before you consider the most important international/interlingual languages.
 
The first language you are able to support with only dead-diactrics, is dutch, but that is 4th or 5th down the list, and is covered in smilar fashion anyway.

Who is proposing only dead diacritics? I'm not.
 
But even with only dead diacritics, it's better for German, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian and lots of other non-Dutch languages to have dead diacritics than to have nothing at all: éèàüöä in two thumb-presses each (diacritic + letter) is still much better than éèàüöä in three thumb presses (Compose + symbol + letter).

Nothing at all wasnt the option. You are mixing something that letters that arent A-Z (German,French,Spanish, and the languages of scandinavia) as dedicated buttons, with something that doesnt, (Dutch)

Something less than dedicated presses arent as good as dedicated presses. Furthermore, dedicated diactrics are found at expected places.

You are fully disregarding effectiveness _and_ habit of at least the 4-5 most important languages. Thats when Portugese isnt even counted.

 

Its a toss-up between dedicated diactrics and hidden AltGr-layer for accentuation, im saying both. However ED says no to printed dedicated diactrics by default. So it can only be where its supposed to be, and hidden.

 
What do you mean, "ED says no to printed dedicated diacritics"? When and where did he say that?

He was speaking to you when he said: " I surely don't want a keyboard I can't understand when I'm looking at it but just see tons of o''s with dots... "
Speaking about this. I imagine, being a german, he didnt mean ö's. As those are very easy to type on a german keyboard.

Even a regular German QWERTZ keyboard has printed dedicated dead acute, grave and circumflex accents, and given that ED seems to want to have all keys of a regular German keyboard labeled (at least üöäߧ°), I would rather expect that he wants to have acute, grave and circumflex.

This is news to me. Can you link to it?  üöäß on the default layout, or üöäß on a german keymat? A german keyboard does not have connect-the-dot o's
My german keyboard, that im typing on, only has dedicated ^ and `
Edit: looks like this

Edit2: I have trouble understanding why ED would want semi-dedicated diactrics-letters that the German language doesnt use, over dedicated letters for äüöß which every german keyboard has...

 

[_wb_]

Even a regular German QWERTZ keyboard has printed dedicated dead acute, grave and circumflex accents, and given that ED seems to want to have all keys of a regular German keyboard labeled (at least üöäߧ°), I would rather expect that he wants to have acute, grave and circumflex.

This is news to me. Can you link to it?  üöäß on the default layout, or üöäß on a german keymat? A german keyboard does not have connect-the-dot o's
My german keyboard, that im typing on, only has dedicated ^ and `

News to you? Just check the first post of this thread. What does ED say about Saber's layout?

Okay, of all the keyboard layouts I've seen at the threads you created, this seems to be nigh perfect in my opinion:

pU8hObm.png

What do I like about it?

• Mostly Standard QWERTY-Keyboard, including the Shift-Keys on the numbers
• Tab as a single key
• ä, ö and ü (German) as well as ' and ` (French) included
• [...]

What issues are there?

• Some keys missing: ', ° and ^.
• [...]

What ED says here is that he likes the äöä for German and the dead acute and grave (which are indeed useful in French, although dedicated àèé are even more useful), and that he would like to have ° and circumflex in addition to the ß § € that were already available in Saber's layout.

This is a standard German keyboard layout:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KB_Germany.svg

It has circumflex to the left of 1 (where ` is on US-QWERTY), acute to the right of ß (where = is on US-QWERTY), and grave on Shift+acute (where + is on US-QWERTY).

It does not have dead umlaut, because it already has dedicated üöä and German does not need ëï.

Most keyboards don't put ◌ on their dead diacritic keys, but I think that's a bit confusing, because I think it's useful to distinguish e.g. non-dead ^ from dead circumflex.

 

[comradekingu]

It could be more standard QWERTY, for more people. Germans in particular, considering how öäü, arent chorded-letters.

The ultimate solutions for germans, is having dedicated keys, with a keymat to visualize it.

It is possible to include more AltGr symbols with a fuller layout. More if you allow thirdlevelshift on numbers, again something that is more standard QWERTY for more people.

And the potential of putting one symbol on each key since FN isnt used, should something be missing.

One oversight on a all-visual layout, and you are stuffed the second a flaw is found. That is a zero-day issue, since there are so few included things.

Edit: French uses ùûüÿàâæçéèêëïîôœ

With dedicated letters on numbers and the right side of the keyboard, _and_ _dedicated_ diactrics.  ' and ` simply isnt enough, and quite far from perfect.

What the point of ° is I dont know, if for typing letters, its US-international diactrics  * (asterisk)       å ů Å Ů

Edit3: Its useful to type °C and things like that. Will include on AltGr-layer.

 

[_wb_]

French keyboards and frequency tables show that àèéç and dead circumflex are the important ones. Dead umlaut is good to have, ù for the word "où" (dead grave is good enough), œ for sisters and eggs, and that's about it. I don't think æ is more important in French than it is in English.

One thing is certain: invisible remappings on P+1, L+2 like in your Scandinavian/German based proposal is not enough for French. But 4 dedicated keys and some diacritics are enough for perfect French support. No need to worry about zero-day issues.

 

[_jr_]

Yes, AZERTY cannot be adequately combined with a Pyra QWERTY layout (because the number row). But the layout used by francophone Canadians could be usable without labels. It probably needs alternate mappings on backspace and enter in addition to P+1, L+2 and AltGr.

 

[comradekingu]

Thats is like saying having fornication in the dark is less fornication than self-gratification to something you see...

The french keyboard has ù and two diactric-modifiers in that area. The part where they cant get their way is dedicated letters on numbers, because that messes everyone else up.

Without using the FN-layer I havent been able to squeeze in full interlingual-support for French, including œ of course. But you can type it, its only more cumbersome.

Sans the visuals, (which can be fixed with additional keymats), it is enough for

German

Spanish

Italian

Portugese

Swedish

Danish

Norwegian

Edit: and dutch of course. We could go on, but if we have those covered, then thats what matters, compared to not covering those.

 

[_wb_]

Yes, AZERTY cannot be adequately combined with a Pyra QWERTY layout (because the number row). But the layout used by francophone Canadians could be usable without labels. It probably needs alternate mappings on backspace and enter in addition to P+1, L+2 and AltGr.

This is the Canadian French layout:

If take the "we don't need labels, we go by muscle memory" approach,  then you need P+1 for circumflex, P+2 for cedilla and diaeresis, L+2 for grave and M+3 for É.

The problem is that there is no reasonable way to have P+1, P+2, L+2 and M+3 available. If you move them elsewhere, the "muscle memory" argument no longer works.

Also this only works for French Canadians who actually have such muscle memory. That's only a minority of French speakers.

If you would go for a comradekingu-style P+2, L+2 layout for French, it probably makes most sense to start from the Swiss layout:

So you have èéà where the Germans have üöä; you could put ¨ at P+2 and circumflex/grave at Meta+Backspace. Then ç at Shift+4 and just live without dollar signs.

Only problem is again that most French speakers will not have a Swiss muscle memory. Most of them have muscle memory for this one:

which would be a complete nightmare on comradekingu's layout, not just because the number row is already doing way too many other things, but even if you just ignore all the extra labels on the number row and map them to what they do in AZERTY, then you hit the problem that the number row is not aligned as it should be: e.g. ç à are supposed to be on 9 0 between I O P, but comradekingu's layout has 8 9 between I O P.

 

[Saber]

Even a regular German QWERTZ keyboard has printed dedicated dead acute, grave and circumflex accents, and given that ED seems to want to have all keys of a regular German keyboard labeled (at least üöäߧ°), I would rather expect that he wants to have acute, grave and circumflex.

This is news to me. Can you link to it?  üöäß on the default layout, or üöäß on a german keymat? A german keyboard does not have connect-the-dot o's
My german keyboard, that im typing on, only has dedicated ^ and `

News to you? Just check the first post of this thread. What does ED say about Saber's layout?

Okay, of all the keyboard layouts I've seen at the threads you created, this seems to be nigh perfect in my opinion:

pU8hObm.png

What do I like about it?

• Mostly Standard QWERTY-Keyboard, including the Shift-Keys on the numbers
• Tab as a single key
• ä, ö and ü (German) as well as ' and ` (French) included
• [...]

What issues are there?

• Some keys missing: ', ° and ^.
• [...]

What ED says here is that he likes the äöä for German and the dead acute and grave (which are indeed useful in French, although dedicated àèé are even more useful), and that he would like to have ° and circumflex in addition to the ß § € that were already available in Saber's layout.

This is a standard German keyboard layout:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KB_Germany.svg

It has circumflex to the left of 1 (where ` is on US-QWERTY), acute to the right of ß (where = is on US-QWERTY), and grave on Shift+acute (where + is on US-QWERTY).

It does not have dead umlaut, because it already has dedicated üöä and German does not need ëï.

Most keyboards don't put ◌ on their dead diacritic keys, but I think that's a bit confusing, because I think it's useful to distinguish e.g. non-dead ^ from dead circumflex.

ED also said my original layout has - + and = too close to the middle. Fortunately, my latest ameliorates his minor gripes in his opening post.

As for diacritics, as I've discussed, some kind of box or underline to any inclusive dead Circumflex, Grave, and Acute should suffice for our needs. 

 

[_wb_]

As for diacritics, as I've discussed, some kind of box or underline to any inclusive dead Circumflex, Grave, and Acute should suffice for our needs. 

Circumflex, Grave and Acute are pretty useful indeed, but not enough by themselves for French (ç and ¨ are missing), not enough for Spanish (ñ is missing), not enough for Portuguese (ç and ~ are missing), not enough for Dutch (¨ is missing), so basically the only extra languages you get with those alone are Italian and Irish.

You have circumflex, grave and acute as additional labeled Fn keys. In my proposal, the diacritics are strategically positioned at look-alike punctuation symbols, so no extra labels are needed, and essentially all useful diacritics are covered: ' for acute and kreska, " for umlaut/diaeresis/Hungarumlaut, > for circumflex, < for caron/breve, , for cedilla/ogonek/comma, . for dot/kropka/ring, ` for grave, ~ for tilde, - for macron. Add ß Æ Ø and you can cover all Latin-script languages with those diacritics, with the exception of Vietnamese.

As to whether we use a dotted circle, box or underline or whatever, I don't really care. Dotted circle is somewhat associated with diacritics, but as far as I'm concerned, some kind of box is also OK. Here is some inspiration: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometric_Shapes

Underline is perhaps not so good since it can be confused with underscore. Also, for my "overloading trick" to work on , < and . >, it has to be something rotationally symmetric so you can visualize the caron and circumflex.

 

[ible]

This is certainly getting exciting and heated!

I don't think it's worth arguing too much over, since comradekingu's layout does not appear to be a contender in ED's mind. But the main problem I see with CK's layout http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/17568-final-keyboard-layout-proposals/?p=370029/URL]is that even if you can get over the overloaded number-row (which has a bunch of new distracting symbols there), and the lack of a two-wide single-function spacebar, is the following:

You lose a shift on the main keyboard if you want to map L+2. As I understand it, most European keyboards do this. So while CK says to keep "muscle memory" from a standard keyboard (which I've heard arguments against, since thumbs have different memory than fingers) -- so maybe "spatial memory", you lose big on keyboard modifiers. That's maybe ok for advanced users, who would also be able to do the remapping to their own region, so that []{}<> and R-shift do their language's thing. But then you've lost []{}<> and Shift, and you don't have those labeled anywhere else. (You do have them under some AltGr location, but that is not visible.)

I wouldn't need to remap (since English is my default), but I can't imagine that losing sight of []{}<> and keyboard Shift would be a good compromise for Europeans.

There're going to be compromises -- comradekingu makes those sound like a bad thing (and sometimes they are). But with an open community/design process, I think we can avoid bad compromises.

 

[codifies]

... it is indeed sad that some people seem unable to tell the difference between compromise and compromised, just because a design has been arrived at by compromise (at all are) does not mean they are compromised!

While community "design" via forum shouting match isn't really the most ideal design method, I do notice that some people have been able to take the useful feedback and improve their designs no end.

 

[Saber]

Thanks to Wikipedia I made the hopefully accurate list below for all these specific language orthographies. Every one of them passed with my v3.0 layout with the assumption that the user isn't hopping from one nationality to another. The exceptions, in only a few cases, are the "very rarely" types which were inconsequential. Bolded letters means they'll need to be(and can be) remapped over one or more of the keys for ä, ö, ü, ß, or the three diacritics(dependent on which are or aren't required for the native alphabet). 

My v3.0 layout again:

Spoiler

Dutch: á, é, ó, ú, ë, ï, and very rarely used â and é.

Estonian: ä, ö, ü, õ, š, ž.

Finnish: å, ä, ö, and very rarely used š and ž.

French: é, à, è, ù, â, ê, î, ô, û, ë, ï, ü, ç, and very rarely used ñ and ÿ.

German: ä, ö, ü, ß.

Hungarian: á, é, í, ó, ú, ö, ü, ő, ű.

Italian: à, è, é, ì, í, î, ò, ó, ù, ú.

Norwegian: é, è, ê, ó, ò, â, ô, å, æ, ø.

Polish: ć, ń, ó, ś, ź, ł, ż, ą, ę          

Portuguese: á, â, ã, à, é, ê, í, ó, ô, õ, ú.

Spanish: á, é, í, ó, ú, ñ.

Swedish: å, ä, ö.

Turkish: â, î, û, ö, ü, ç, ğ, I, İ, ş.

 

[グレェ]

Wow, 64 pages in this forum thread on keyboards.

Input methods, clearly are a popular bike shedding subject! ^_^

I am from the USA, and grew up with various QWERTY forms, though I feel as though such things were more or less perfected in the Sun, NeXT and Amiga keyboards, with a saner placement of the control key (where most other keyboards now place a caps lock key). I have also studied Japanese for much of my life, and lived in Germany for a while last year (and dealt often with their QWERTZ). For me, the best keyboard currently made is Apple's Japanese keyboard, which is a six row QWERTY with some extra modifier keys. Not every key has a glyph marking corresponding to what it can do, making figuring out _ and \ a bit challenging as they are essentially invisible; moreover there are a bunch of other keys labeled in a non-romanized font that gets confusing.

Regardless, particularly with gaming as an application, key bindings can, and often are, remapped. Just go use mednafen for a while if you don't believe me. 

However, what I find more worthwhile than discussing specific key mappings (which vary by I18N) or reading back on 64 pages of threads.

How many keys do you have?

If you look at small form factor devices with full keyboards, those are frankly, the BEST.

Some examples that come to mind: Danger's Hiptop (more widely known as the Sidekick) which had a 5 row QWERTY keyboard.

The Android G1/ADP1, also had a 5 row QWERTY keyboard.

The Samsung Sidekick 4G (an Android device, attempting to mimic the older Danger mold) also, a 5 row QWERTY keyboard.

The IBM PPC110 Thinkpad (released only in Japan, a full 486 laptop that was about the size of a 3.5" floppy disk) had a 7 row QWERTY keyboard: http://regmedia.co.uk/2007/06/12/ibm_thinkpad_7.jpg

Meanwhile, the Japanese Sharp Galapagos 005SH (a glasses free 3D gaming Android device with bundled in Capcom arcade classics) had a 4 row QWERTY keyboard, but D pad.

Ostensibly, the Open Pandora, had a 4 row QWERTY keyboard, but it broke the continuity of the number row.

But really, I would recommend looking at the HTC Android G1/ADP1, the Samsung Sidekick 4G, the Danger Hiptop/Sidekick as references for fitting a 5 row QWERTY keyboard into a small form factor that is actually insanely good to use.

The space key placement on the Open Pandora is terrible.

Talking about omitting ESC keys, or placing a control key in a bad place. . . just look, others have done great jobs in small form factors. Sure, some compromises are likely to be made, but fewer than you may think. If IBM could fit a 7 row QWERTY into such small dimensions, I am sure the Pyra can be perhaps not quite as insane, but still much better than the Open Pandora was. ^_^

Regardless, I am excited about the platform and wish you good luck on the continued development!
 

 

[_wb_]

We don't have room for a 5, 6 or 7 row keyboard like the PalmTopPC110:

We just don't have the vertical room for that, because a large portion is already taken by the dpad/nubs/action buttons.

The PC110 was also quite a bit larger than the Pyra: 158 x 113 x 33 mm for the PC110, compared to 140 x 84 x 29 mm for the Pyra.

OTOH, since we already have a dpad and shoulder buttons as modifiers (and both are superior mechanisms compared to their normal keyboard implementation), we don't really need that bottom row of the PC110 keyboard. The Pyra keyboard has actually 5 rows if you count the five keys at the top (which includes the power button) and the 6 action buttons (which would probably be home/end/pgup/pgdn/ins/del). So compared to the PPC110, the only row that is missing, is the dedicated F-keys row.

Unfortunately, the Pyra keyboard has not enough keys per row to implement a completely full keyboard, including all of - = [ ] \ ; ' , . / as primary keys.

The physical layout of the keyboard has already been decided, the PCB is finished, so we're now discussing the labels on the keys, not the physical layout.

 

[bzar]

Additionally, some of those examples are designed mostly for text input and not for shell use or programming. They may be good for texting and the odd shell command to open IRC screen, but not for much more.

 

[_wb_]

Thanks to Wikipedia I made the hopefully accurate list below for all these specific language orthographies. Every one of them passed with my v3.0 layout with the assumption that the user isn't hopping from one nationality to another. The exceptions, in only a few cases, are the "very rarely" types which were inconsequential. Bolded letters means they'll need to be(and can be) remapped over one or more of the keys for ä, ö, ü, ß, or the three diacritics(dependent on which are or aren't required for the native alphabet). 

My v3.0 layout again:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Dutch: á, é, ó, ú, ë, ï, and very rarely used â and é.

In Dutch we also need ü and ö for Dutch words like "reünie", "vacuüm", "coöperatie", "coördineren", "zoölogie" (ä only for loanwords like "salonfähig"), and ê for words like "enquête", "gêne", ç for words like "reçu", "façade", "Brabançonne" (the name of the national anthem in Belgium, where most people speak Dutch).

So your suggestion is that we remap ä and ß to ë and ï and just avoid writing some words? Or perhaps ü to ¨ and ß to ç, then everything can be typed. I guess that could work. It would be tricky to remember (after all, we don't need those special letters very often, so it's not something you would get used to quickly), but possible. Just using Compose sequences would be what I would most likely do in practice though.

If remapping üöäß to language-specific letters is good enough to say a language "passes", then yes, you can "support" a lot of languages. But I don't think it's very user-friendly to have to remember remappings. E.g. for Spanish you would have to remember that the key labeled ä is really a ñ. Or was it ö?

Moreover, multilingual needs do exist. "Multilingual speakers outnumber monolingual speakers in the world's population.[1]", says Wikipedia. In Belgium, the official languages are Dutch, French and German, and most people use at least two out of those three. Switzerland has four official languages. Also some people like to talk about names of cities and other persons using the correct spelling. If I want to say something about Slavoj Žižek, it's nice to be able to spell his name correctly, for example.

So I think a more multilingual layout like

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/d7e5a0dab3f707566068e641e29c84d9

is worth the little bit of extra "clutter".