It reminds me of the Pandora!


@EvilDragon Maybe I've got wrong, which values you're talking about, but just in case. In the kernel mailing list regargarding temp measurement and changing resistors you said:
"So I'll tell GC to stop the production right now and I'll test new resistor values.Hopefully we need to increase a value, as stacking a resistor on top would be faster than replacing it with a lower one"
If you put two resistors in parallel, you'll get a smaller resistance, since you allow more current at the same voltage.
 
Swordfish II said:
I mean telling GC to stop production is kind of a big deal. Also people not willing to summarize means it's a bit complex.
Click to expand...

Short story: Heat builds up fast in the pyra while using. Some sensor thinks there is overheating going on and switches of charging (charging seems not to be the cause).


Long Story: Heat builds up fast in the pyra while using. Who clould have knew it? No one.

Zwerg01 said:
Only 1600 times slower than metal why i would call "plastic" a thermal isolator. But the copper block isnt attached to the case properly. There are air gaps between. And air is even worse in conducting thermal energie. This copper block acts only as a thermal capacitor with a very small capacitance. Not worth the effort.
Click to expand...

Also, the problem reveals that there was no systematic testing (with few exeptions like EMC) of the pyra prototypes with unexpirienced testers and now it is in production and has some flaws. Who clould have knew this? No one.

Zwerg01 said:
What you do is not testing. It is called "playing around". With a test, you make predictions for the result before you do it. Not afterwards trying to explain and interpret what you have experienced.
Click to expand...

Further more, the bug was known since beginning of september but due to misscommunication and lack of fundamental projektmanagement methodes like bug tracking etc. a fix didn't find its way in the production at GC and essential team members dont know what is going on where because of the number of communication plattforms like twitter, forum, IRC, Discord and mailing list. Who could have knew this? No one.

Zwerg01 said:
There is a lack of knowledge about project management.
Click to expand...

Nevertheless. The fix is that the trigger for safety shutdown is getting a higher trip point of a few °C. The advantage is, the fix can be applied easy by replacing a resistor, thus can be done in a few hours as mentioned and the trigger trips later. With some luck the timespan is increased so that the pyra is charged enough with the maximum current befor. The downside is, ED expirienced the problem at room temperatur. If you are in an environment where temperature is higher, lets say 27°C the fix loses its effectivness because the temperaure difference to the trip point is lower (obvious) AND!!! the pyra board heats up to a higher temperature because the power dissipation to the environment is reduced (lower delta theta).
 
Djoga'Ro said:
@Zwerg01 You're not wrong, but could you for once take into account, that there's no 12-person team fully dedicated to the project. There's no one exclusively dedicated to the project.
Click to expand...

For me, this is no excuse. The guy from PinePhone was also alone. He pays a lot of contractors who do all the work. Expensive but not spending the money is also expensiv (cost of delay). Another solution could be to involv the community in the work. I dont mean ask them once which color the case should have. Let them set up a bug tracker. Writing test plans and procdures. Stay in close contact with the developers about test result. Keep project plans up to date. List of open points. Make work bundles and assign them to volunteers. Devide and conquer. I mean the people here are highly motivated and loyal in this forums and there where also a lot of tasks a non-software or non-electrical engineer could have done. But now, the project is near its end and it is to late and also not relay neccessary anymore. It would had been neccesary to make the project open source and release all resources . But i had the feeling, there was always the fear, someone could then steal the idea and release early.

PowerGod said:
@Zwerg01 replying to himself ?! :confused: Who could have knew this? No one. :cool:
Click to expand...

xD
 
Zwerg01 said:
Long Story: Heat builds up fast in the pyra while using. Who clould have knew it? No one.
Click to expand...
Most Chips and SoCs and all that kind of stuff come with detailed thermal informations and specifications. No mysteries there, actualy. So I'm sure this was kept in mind already during Pyra Development.
 
Djoga'Ro said:
Obviously, he wants to help. In a give-a-man-a-fish-...-kinda way, but retroactively.
Click to expand...

I admit, I have been super pessimistic at times, but I still want the thing and have never bashed the product (just the need for certain finishing touches and things like that).

I'm just curious what keeps him coming around because it has never seemed like he even wants one.
 
I'll just ignore Zwerg01's comments here, as it's the usual trolling and you guys have already reacted to it :)

What happened:
The charger chip has an emergency battery shutdown. The temperature, when this happens is currently set to 39C.
This means: if the battery temperature reaches 39C, the charger will report an error and stop charging it.

Now, when I was visiting my parents this weekend, I charged it while it was idling around. The charger chip reported an error (red blinking LED), even though the battery felt pretty cool.

So I thought, that either that temperature limit is set too low or the chip uses the wrong temperature sensor: not the one in the battery (which was still cool) but the one on the charger chip (which is inside the case, together with the OMAP, where 39C are reached pretty fast).

After some discussion, I knew it was the battery temperature - and that a blinking LED simply means the charger chip reported some error with the battery. Doesn't have to be the temperature (and surely wasn't in this case, as trying again to charge while it was on worked without any issues and the battery reached 37C - and that really is pretty warm already).
You can make a register dump and see what error the chip reports, but I didn't know how.
So probably something simple after which you reset the error and continue charging. The currently very basic version of the driver can't do that yet.

So, all in all, nothing is wrong here.
The only thing to debate is whether the set 39C is too low (ideal operating temperatur for a Lithium battery is 15 - 45C), so we could raise it to 45C.
But then again, the warmer a battery gets while being charged, the faster it dies.
Remember how the GPD Win 1 eats batteries for breakfast?
They die within a year if you charge them while playing high-performance games, which really heats up the battery a lot.

Keeping it at 39C should at least ensure your battery survives for longer periods of times - and when we have a thermal management system running, it should handle that anyways and try to keep the temperatures lower.

I hope that explains all the confusion and makes more sense than the (once again wrongly assumed) stuff Zwerg01 posted.
 
EvilDragon said:
I'll just ignore Zwerg01's comments here, as it's the usual trolling and you guys have already reacted to it :)

What happened:
The charger chip has an emergency battery shutdown. The temperature, when this happens is currently set to 39C.
This means: if the battery temperature reaches 39C, the charger will report an error and stop charging it.

Now, when I was visiting my parents this weekend, I charged it while it was idling around. The charger chip reported an error (red blinking LED), even though the battery felt pretty cool.

So I thought, that either that temperature limit is set too low or the chip uses the wrong temperature sensor: not the one in the battery (which was still cool) but the one on the charger chip (which is inside the case, together with the OMAP, where 39C are reached pretty fast).

After some discussion, I knew it was the battery temperature - and that a blinking LED simply means the charger chip reported some error with the battery. Doesn't have to be the temperature (and surely wasn't in this case, as trying again to charge while it was on worked without any issues and the battery reached 37C - and that really is pretty warm already).
You can make a register dump and see what error the chip reports, but I didn't know how.
So probably something simple after which you reset the error and continue charging. The currently very basic version of the driver can't do that yet.

So, all in all, nothing is wrong here.
The only thing to debate is whether the set 39C is too low (ideal operating temperatur for a Lithium battery is 15 - 45C), so we could raise it to 45C.
But then again, the warmer a battery gets while being charged, the faster it dies.
Remember how the GPD Win 1 eats batteries for breakfast?
They die within a year if you charge them while playing high-performance games, which really heats up the battery a lot.

Keeping it at 39C should at least ensure your battery survives for longer periods of times - and when we have a thermal management system running, it should handle that anyways and try to keep the temperatures lower.

I hope that explains all the confusion and makes more sense than the (once again wrongly assumed) stuff Zwerg01 posted.
Click to expand...

Thanks. So production is going again at GC?
 
I would advise to take the mailing list with a pinch of salt, because what you read there is part of a conversation, not exactly a public statement.

All in all, in case anyone missed it:

...

Everything else is sitting in my office and I plan to deliver as many
Pyras as possible until Christmas (hopefully the first 500).

...
Click to expand...

So now we know for certain, the official plural for Pyra is indeed Pyras.

:D
 
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