Has *anybody* received a refund from OpenPandora Ltd (Craig's) in 2013?

[Exophase]

These couple of threads where ED and Craig have bashed each other are bad enough, but do they have to end with forum members bashing each other?

Lets keep it civil shall we.

If someone says something that I don't agree with and have even the slightest interest in I'm going to respond to say so and why. Especially in this case when I think it's just throwing fuel onto a fire or at best trying to be heard in an ongoing shouting war by shouting louder.

If someone is constantly posting things I don't agree with then I'm going to be constantly responding to it, regardless of who they are. I don't care if that makes them think that I have a grudge against them (like monstercameron thought), because so long as I'm only addressing the things they said and not throwing personal attacks at them that claim is totally baseless.

I'll ignore him if I don't feel like dealing with it but that's not one of those times. Why should people keep quiet if they don't agree with something? If he thinks he can destroy my technical arguments about assembly language or some shit then by all means he should do that too, I don't appreciate at all him "holding back" here.

 

[vcoleiro1]

These couple of threads where ED and Craig have bashed each other are bad enough, but do they have to end with forum members bashing each other?


Lets keep it civil shall we.

If someone says something that I don't agree with and have even the slightest interest in I'm going to respond to say so and why. Especially in this case when I think it's just throwing fuel onto a fire or at best trying to be heard in an ongoing shouting war by shouting louder.


If someone is constantly posting things I don't agree with then I'm going to be constantly responding to it, regardless of who they are. I don't care if that makes them think that I have a grudge against them (like monstercameron thought), because so long as I'm only addressing the things they said and not throwing personal attacks at them that claim is totally baseless.


I'll ignore him if I don't feel like dealing with it but that's not one of those times. Why should people keep quiet if they don't agree with something? If he thinks he can destroy my technical arguments about assembly language or some shit then by all means he should do that too, I don't appreciate at all him "holding back" here.

My comment wasn't about calmly expressing difference of opinions, nor was it aimed at you or Overgauss for that matter.  It was generally aimed at the few snipe remarks in some posts (who shall remain anonymous) .  It's ok to disagree, just keep it civil, that's all I was saying.

 

[Exophase]

Sorry, when someone posts a small response w/o quotes I figure it's directly addressed at the posts most recently preceding it :/

 

[overgauss]

Skeezix, your question was pretty much answered.  I would agree that Ed should have that information.  Craigix said he'll give it as long as certain guidlines were met first.  What I'm not sure that I agree with (from a business standpoint) is if those numbers should be published to the public.  I see both the consumer and the business side of things.  I'm leaning that the best thing for the consumer right now is looking at things from a sales/ cancellation of sales type angle.

Overgauss, my guess right now is that Craig has more pre-order refunds to fulfil than Pandora pre-orders to ship.  Given that, and the knowledge that we have just established regarding how Craig's pre-order shipments are still happening via the arrangement with ED + How no refunds are happening.via that arrangement. Do you really think that information would lean people to get a refund over remaining in the pre-order queue? No would be the answer.

Learning how may Pre-orders are remaining to be fulfilled and how many are to be refunded IMO would be a plus right now in regrads to preventing more refund requests

ie Most times openness can be a plus for business reasons.

"Do you really think that information would lean people to get a refund over remaining in the pre-order queue? No would be the answer."

You ask me what I think.  Then you answer for me.  Do you have data that suggests that when the first mass-cancellation panic occured, there was no risk that that state of affairs didn't cause more cancellations?  Or that there was a fear that it would?  I think the fear was real, and was the reason behind Ed starting the "Let's go-Help wanted" thread.

As it is now, people are being told that they still might have to wait 60 weeks for their device.  What if that number turns out to be 200-300 people have to wait 60 weeks?  How many of those people would cancel in light of the fact that there is no current initiative to make these people a real priority?  Are you asking from the position of a person that already has their unit?  Or from the position of a person that already has been waiting going on for 4 years or more?

If you had been waiting for 4 years or so, and found that due to circumstance and the sheer size of the pre-order que that you would definitively be waiting an additional 1-3 years, what would you do?

Lastly, how does knowledge of the que size impact the expedient reduction of this que size, if we aren't willing to discuss an alternate plan to effect its reduction?  Since we already know that the que size is large, knowing the exact size changes nothing because we are unwilling to attack the root cause of the problem.  The size is not the problem because we already know it is large.  The rate of reducing the size is the problem.  If you solve the rate reducing problem in a fashion that meets consumer expectation, then releasing the exact numbers would be less of a shock to those consumers still awaiting refunds and units.

I agree that being open to consumers is a positive.  Right now I'm not sure that releasing these numbers would increase user confidence during this current state of affairs.

 

[vcoleiro1]

^ Simply put Overgauss, waiting x weeks for a Pandora is better than never getting a refund which at the moment is the situation.  This in itself would dissuade people from asking for a refund rather than waiting for their pre-order.  We only found out this info because it was asked for and openly given.  Think about that.

 

[overgauss]

Have you considered that the reason why there are so many cancellations lately is because people are tired of waiting x weeks, and that waiting x weeks for a pandora is much the same as waiting x weeks for a pandora, cancelling, and then waiting for a refund?  If I never got my pre-order to begin with how is that different from never getting my refund?  As far as I can tell, waiting for either is about the same length of time.

Edit:

Also if the que is too big, I'm guessing some people might have a problem with receiving 2008-2010 technology in 2014-2015 and would rather hope for the cash instead.  But this is from the perspective of a person that has been waiting since 2009.  I assume you're coming from the perspective of a person that already has their unit.  I'm just speaking for myself though.

 

[vcoleiro1]

^ That didn't make sense, anyway I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[overgauss]

Sounds good.

 

[GizmoAgent]

Don't you feel ignored? Maybe give it up already?

Never! But at least ED and Craig are talking now . But I would prefer if they are talking first to each other and then public. An other try: Skype with each other

shut up

Edit: oh looks like he did... got to the 7th page with this crap on nearly every page and had had enough.

 

[kirkanoss]

think we need to pass around the peace pipe

 

[sswam]

" you're all just a bunch of bullies "

" think we need to pass around the peace pipe "

It's nice to see a few drops of sanity, rising above the tides of horse shit.

 

[Klumpen]

Page 9 and still at speculations and now even bashing in different directions. oO Woah.

 

[mmKALLL]

"There's nothing any of us can do to convince Craig or ED that their understanding of the Pandora sales agreement was wrong and even if we could it wouldn't change anything. People can stop saying nasty things about Craig but frankly it doesn't even matter if he's fed up with us or not --"

I think that saying "nothing" is a very bad thing in this case, when there are things we could do.

Personally, I think that Overgauss' points are fascinating and have a good basis; ones with which I agree completely. In this thread, at least; I don't know what happened or has happened between him and Exophase. At any rate, what I said earlier also holds true from my perspective.

Right now, I'm interested in hearing from Craig again whenever he comes back, out of my interest; and also to hear why Overgauss is so confident in his argumential and social skill as to say that he could easily destroy what others have claimed.

 

[Esn]

My queue was 500 units, not 400.

I just checked all my bookings, here is my result:

As said, the plan was:

Use all parts Craig has, get money from investors, ship 800 remaining Pandoras to Craig and 500 remaining Pandoras to my customers.

In case Craig needs money for refunds, buy the parts off him and lower the number of Pandoras he gets (which makes sense if these are being used for refunds).

Parts bought from Craig: 189 Pandoras

Shipped to Craig: 242 Pandoras

Shipped to Upgrades (Craigs customers): 157

Total units shipped: 588

Total units (excl. Upgrades): 431

Queue remaining from those 800: 212

Shipped to Upgrades (my customers): 55

Total units shipped: 370

Total units shipped (excl. Upgrades): 363

Queue remaining from those 500: 25

So, not counting the upgrades (as they are paid by the customer), I had less Pandoras for my customers than Craig for his customers.

Doesn't look to me like I give my customers priority. It's like it was planned - Craig gets a bit more Pandoras in the end, so it had been shared accordingly.

What a wonderful post.

Overgauss, you say that maybe Craig isn't releasing his queue numbers to prevent a panic among the customers.

Maybe that's true. What this means is that he doesn't trust the customers with that information. Craig doesn't trust the customers, but ED does. Is it any wonder Craig's lack of trust in his customers is reciprocated by them, and conversely, ED's trust in his customers is reciprocated as well?

 

[quartercast]

Confucius say: Don't feed the trolls.

 

[ShleeDragon]

I still don't understand why Craig doesn't try harder to sell the Pandora...

 

[ZXDunny]

Sending money to Craig to finance refunds? 

I must say, that sounds a spiffing idea! Now, what guarantees do we have that the money would go to refunds and not towards Craig's latest venture instead? I mean, it's not like Craig hasn't diverted money away from that which a customer paid him for to finance something completely different, is it?

You're all bloody mad to trust that guy.

To be honest, I'm beginning to suspect that the problems with CC, Nubs, cases etc were not all about the companies involved and more to do with something Craig did that he didn't tell us (or his business partners) about. Of course, there'll never be any hard evidence of that, but given his behaviour it's all looking very, very suspicious now - especially given his latest outburst of reality management.

D.

 

[elwing]

I'm happy to see CraigX is involved once time more... but I'm worried by the tone of the discussion... and I'm disappointed by the lack of any interesting news...

edit: replaced "good" by "interesting" as that was my meaning and as I don't really expect any good news...

 

[Maquis196]

I'm now tempted to convert my refund back into a pandora and either sell it on these boards or back to ed for a loss, that way it avoids the money issue even if its a loss for me.

 

[ShleeDragon]

I'm about to spam some random stream of conscience: 

Craig found himself boned in about four different ways. ED tried to help, but he was only able to fix two of these problems. Leaving Craig with some problems of his own.

There are debts which Craig is upset about because he will never turn a profit on the Pandora.

There are debts which ED is upset about because they are not in his name and has no responsibility for.

Once the original preorder queue for ED is filled... he will continue to eat away at Craigs queue.. from the goodness of his heart (while he continues to pay off his investors).

Now the real news: Craig isn't making money. ED isn't making money. The community is supportive but this is a complete clusterfuck... Now what do they do next?

1) Craigs preorder queue needs to be eaten away - Using the ED sales, or getting them to upgrade to jump the queue.

2) Craig needs to use his promotional powers to advertise the Pandora... If Craig gets ED a sale, he helps his queue.
3) ED needs to continue doing his thing. Selling units..


The best case end game is the following: ED and Craig ship all of their preorder rebirths... Ed pays off his investors and starts to earn a profit.... Once the Craig queue is completed, he is more than free to start selling pandoras at a profit too.

• The only real question I have is: What is Craig doing to work on his queue? Has he absolved all responsibility?

What can we do? As a community member? We need to use this upcoming cleared queue for ED as a reason to whore out the Pandora heavily.... 

Make youtube videos, post on social networks, post on forums and get press. Make this a good news story!

HEY GUYS! Order your pandora now and we'll send it your way within 4 weeks..... he needs to sell more units.