I think ED did exactly that: for each unit he sent to one of his preorderers, he also sent one unit your way. It's just that your queue was longer to start with.
As you can see, maybe Ed is right, my presence here is destructive.
Which isnt quite the same thing as ED asking you to stay away, but a salute to you for editing. The same goes for making claims about deals. ED is sticking to his plan, which he has got in writing. If you have any issue with this whatsoever then post said plan. It is not confidential, ED quotes it all the time, and he has run it past his legal advisory.
To much the same extent ED has a plan and is sticking to it, the same goes for CC. If that is a bad deal for you then its not CC or EDs fault, its on you. Sue them.
Ok, so getting back on topic, The above tells you why no one is getting refunds. Hope that helps the original poster and anyone else interested in the refund situation.
Looks like no one will get a refund until Craig starts requesting at least some payments over getting Pandoras from EDs sales.
And to me at least, that would be rediculous; already ED is sending 'free units' (that cost ED money). ED could have used those units to clear his queue, or to *gasp* make a few bucks somewhere, to pay his other debts. Instead, he's sending units to Craigs customers.
But sending cash... to Craig?
Thats crazy talk.
At the same time.. yeah, theres currently no way to get refunds for Craigs customers that want refunds; can't squeeze blood from a rock. I have no idea how to solve that, but getting EDs cash (_more_ of EDs cash) and sending to Craig seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Remember, this is the same as ED having shipped over a hundred units for promise of payment,a nd then got nothing. ED has _already_ sent what, $20k or something to Craig, when you remember that. (A big number, I don't recall how much.)
jeff
Its not crazy, ED is ok with it as he mentioned. All it involves is cash being sent to Craig that would be otherwise used to build a Pandora that would normally be sent to him.
Basically the point of this thread was to find out whats happening with refunds. Now we know, no refunds are happening for Craigs customers because at the moment he is getting Pandora's from ED to fulfill pre-orders as opposed to getting cash to fulfill refunds.
One would assume the best mix for Craig would to get a balanced mix of Pandoras and cash. This is a change that needs to happen otherwise no-one is getting a refund
This is up to craig, he doesnt sell units, nor does he promote units to help EDs sales. ED does cross-upgrades and works at craigs queue by bailing it out. He also does the repairs for craig, and he bought all the remaining parts from him after CC. He can mix his profits and sales as he pleases. If he doesnt do anything and keeps selling his assets then it doesnt take a genious to figure out what happens. He says he cant do anything, but time and time again ED has said he will also do drop shipping. Which basically means craig doesnt need to be in production, he could just be in sales, for his own profit and use the profits as his leverage to get things moving himself.
As for the deal with ED it is for units. Sales he handles on his own, and what he has done there is explained above (not by me), but ill try to clarify as best i can without drawing.
ED sent craig 1GHz units that he was supposed to be paid back for, which in turn would fund pre-orders. Craig spent this to refund his refund queue instead.
ED then takes this money from the promised units. What has happened is craig refunded dead debt.
Someone has to wait for craigs stuff to be sorted, unfortunately, . (Just like craig has to wait for ED let profits fund craigs free units.)
Basically its money in the door, and money out the door. Probably craigx makes a little profit from sitting on interest, but nothing against the debt racked up with said money.
So there is no money to refund people with and any money at all should for the case of everyone not go there, ideally it should make the profit it was intended to.
It grinds everything to a halt, and it takes his granted units out of the hands of preorderers and puts it into debt that he has racked up meanwhile. It doesn't shift any units
It craigs risk as a businessman he is now facing, it is his contract with CC, his contract with ED, dont complain or blame. It is pointless and doesnt change a thing in the real world. As for reputation, no, no good there either.
So now its all up to ED and craig doesn't want to give numbers nor promote. Basically he could have kept running his shop, but people were flocking to ED because there a sale meant your money was actually going towards your unit, whereas the profits where used as best fit. Cant compete with that attitude with anything else but the same service.
IMO section: the reason for this is that those who want refunds make that against his company and he has his hands tied for insolvency. Could be the same for the preorder list legally, but as long as you are on it you aren't a problem and your only option is to cross-upgrade or ask for a non-existant refund. But at least it buys him time that ED can use to bail him out, ICP2 production or cross upgrades. And i don't think craigx is the only one who has his personal money in there, but i do faintly remember craig mortaging his house, so that means his company Openpandora Ltd. (limited) in bankrupt. When it files for insolvensy he isnt held personally responsible other than he might not be able to start any more companies and nobody (kickstarter) wants to back him in any further endavours.
What ties his hand is that the bank doesn't go away quite as easily. If he doesn't have a company (icp2 or pandora) they will take their mortage and sell it on the open market, because they don't want their assets (house) tied up to dead debt. As far as his company goes its the people who want their pandoras and especially the ones who want their money that are his creditors. Indirectly the bank is a guaranteer of sorts because the total sum of his endavours are the risk involved in him paying back his mortage. My guess he does not want those people to come knocking after a chapter 5 insolvency. Also he has bought a leaf through his company, and that is something that will be split into as many pieces of the pie as there are creditors, because that belongs to the company. (guessing that last bit based on his infamous electric car post)
As for the i'm not in charge and havent been so for a year, he tried the same excuse for my support and supper support badges that i ordered from him 3
oct 2011... Got that log from the IRC yesterday, and as _wb_ said, he hasnt been on IRC for ages, and probably will not return anytime soon.
Skeezix, your question was pretty much answered. I would agree that Ed should have that information. Craigix said he'll give it as long as certain guidlines were met first. What I'm not sure that I agree with (from a business standpoint) is if those numbers should be published to the public. I see both the consumer and the business side of things. I'm leaning that the best thing for the consumer right now is looking at things from a sales/ cancellation of sales type angle.
Those
guidelines were ED promising to bail out his whole queue, entirely from a blind point of view. Then ED explain why that doesn't happen. He has done so many times in the past, and he understands german law better than I do. TLDR its inherrently not interesting for him to do so from a business point of view.
It was 800, and then craig shifted his funds for the 1GHz sales into cutting that number by stitching ED up for payment. Why would ED agree to pay for that by means of an obligation now?
The list doesnt get any shorter than ED makes it, and its not like he can save them all in one go.
All of the above are things ive observed, you can find the original ED posts explaining everything on the forums, irc, or wiki.
If craigx had played with open cards like ED does he couldn't juggle anything. And it certainly seems like thats whats he is doing. 20 units from ED paid for, majority isnt paid for but goes into different hands (sans pandora) Some 1GHz units sent, some upgrades, some refunds. When its evident to all that he cant blame anyone and its a ponzi scheme started at the wrong end of the hype. Why the silence?
People might flock to get refunds, your company is in debt going nowhere already.
People might get angry, nothing new there.
From my experience this community is the greatest around, and it sticks by the project thick and thin. I waited years for my preorder from you myself, but i finally got enough of your smoke and mirrors when you topped incompetence with arrogance at my efforts to throw money your way with support.
