Has *anybody* received a refund from OpenPandora Ltd (Craig's) in 2013?

[Klumpen]

Craig has created (not alone, but he has) the greatest gaming handheld/portable pc in existence,

I will not forget that and I am sure, that no one here will.

It's all about miscommunication and the lack of openness for a while now.

(There are open questions left that were repeated and repeatedly ignored in this thread.)

If this does not change, all this talk is completely in vain.

 

[craigix]

I think ED did exactly that: for each unit he sent to one of his preorderers, he also sent one unit your way. It's just that your queue was longer to start with.

I believe EDs queue was 400+ units.

So I should have also received 400+ free units?

I have emailed Ed (just now), maybe some kind of resolution can be reached.

I'm back at work tomorrow so I won't be able to update this thread.

As you can see, maybe Ed is right, my presence here is destructive.

I think I've pretty much said what I wanted to say.

 

[moxie]

I think ED did exactly that: for each unit he sent to one of his preorderers, he also sent one unit your way. It's just that your queue was longer to start with.

I believe EDs queue was 400+ units.

So I should have also received 400+ free units?

I do seem to remember that there was some sort of unresolved question of money here, too? As in, the units needed to be paid for?

 

[taylor-madeak]

I think ED did exactly that: for each unit he sent to one of his preorderers, he also sent one unit your way. It's just that your queue was longer to start with.

I believe EDs queue was 400+ units.

So I should have also received 400+ free units?

I do seem to remember that there was some sort of unresolved question of money here, too? As in, the units needed to be paid for?

My understanding was that the units that had not yet been paid for, and therefore not shipped to Craig, were the 1GHz preorders. 

 

[F_Slim]

I believe EDs queue was 400+ units.

So I should have also received 400+ free units?

With you having 800 outstanding orders at the time (as you said back then, and thus ED based his plan on this number), and now there are 150 in your queue outstanding (I guess this is counting in the massive amount of refunds you got some time late  last year, as these refunds mean less units in your queue) ... yes, sounds like that's roundabout the number that went to your customers.

 

[rohezal]

You realy should talk to each other. Via Skype or telephone. You know this ?

 

[x86Daddy]

Craig: I appreciate seeing updates here... I sincerely hope you and ED can sort out all misunderstandings and move forward.  I was impressed with the goals of this project from the start, and it's amazing that it resulted in real devices (even if just a trickle of them).  Unfortunately, my machine needs and financial needs changed so much over the last couple years, that my best course of action was to cancel my pre-order in October 2012.  Jacqueline discussed with me regarding paypal vs. cheque, but then I never heard anything back since then.  Reading your posts today, I still have a question: do you have any plan for handling refunds?  It seems you're awaiting units to ship from ED for the last pre-orders, but I'm concerned about how cancellation refunds will be addressed.  My personal situation has made the ammount of money involved a lot more meaningful to me as of last year than it was three years ago when I ordered, so I'd really appreciate a response.  I'm sure you're experiencing similar situations.

 

[notaz]

The units should have been distributed evenly, no queue should have been prioritised, I certainly didn't do that when I was building the units.


I believe EDs queue was 400+ units.

But they were distributed evenly, it looks like you failed to learn basic arithmetics at school and now playing your usual blame game. You got multiple batches of Rebirth units, and over 100 1GHz units ( http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php/topic/11962-got-the-email-queue-position-137/ ). Also, ED and you had many preorder people upgrade, and those people get out of the queues and no longer count as preorders, and those units are shipped by ED directly.

There were no posts by ED stating returns taking him by surprise, what are you talking about here?


As far as I know ED never had problems with returns, sometimes people would have to wait several weeks for repairs because ED was too busy handle them, but now with Askarus the repairs are fast and there is no backlog AFAIK.

 
As I read Craigix reply, he informed ED at some point that X orders were outstanding. If Craigix then had Y faulty pandoras returned to him after that point in time, the queue would have grown to size X + Y. Craigix is now saying that ED shouldn't be surprised that the queue grew by Y since he was informed that a lot of customer's were returning faulty Pandoras.

But these fall into repair category that ED has been handling since he took over production and should not go back into preorder queue.

Notaz, are you one of Eds investors? I think cards should be on the table if you are.

What does that have to do with you posting bogus information?

 

[notaz]

You realy should talk to each other. Via Skype or telephone. You know this ?

Don't you feel ignored? Maybe give it up already?

 

[rohezal]

Don't you feel ignored? Maybe give it up already?

Never! But at least ED and Craig are talking now . But I would prefer if they are talking first to each other and then public. An other try: Skype with each other

 

[Tenka]

Don't you feel ignored? Maybe give it up already?

Never! But at least ED and Craig are talking now . But I would prefer if they are talking first to each other and then public. An other try: Skype with each other


[giant spacekilling image removed]

Perhaps what you would prefer is not what they would prefer.  You have definitely made your opinion known here.  If it was helpful the first time, it will not continue to be helpful the next time you remind us.  Please.

 

[EvilDragon]

I think ED did exactly that: for each unit he sent to one of his preorderers, he also sent one unit your way. It's just that your queue was longer to start with.

I believe EDs queue was 400+ units.


So I should have also received 400+ free units?

My queue was 500 units, not 400.
I just checked all my bookings, here is my result:


As said, the plan was:


Use all parts Craig has, get money from investors, ship 800 remaining Pandoras to Craig and 500 remaining Pandoras to my customers.


In case Craig needs money for refunds, buy the parts off him and lower the number of Pandoras he gets (which makes sense if these are being used for refunds).


Parts bought from Craig: 189 Pandoras


Shipped to Craig: 242 Pandoras


Shipped to Upgrades (Craigs customers): 157


Total units shipped: 588


Total units (excl. Upgrades): 431


Queue remaining from those 800: 212


Shipped to Upgrades (my customers): 55


Total units shipped: 370


Total units shipped (excl. Upgrades): 363


Queue remaining from those 500: 25


So, not counting the upgrades (as they are paid by the customer), I had less Pandoras for my customers than Craig for his customers.


Doesn't look to me like I give my customers priority. It's like it was planned - Craig gets a bit more Pandoras in the end, so it had been shared accordingly.

 

[taylor-madeak]

This is the kind of transparency that makes ED look like "the saviour," Craig.  If the community asks him what his queue status is, he gives us a straight answer.  Every time.  On the other hand, the community has been begging you for a status update of your queue for years now, and you not only completely refuse to answer the question, you don't even acknowledge that it's been asked! 

The best we get are calculated guesses from ED.

 

[Grench]

I'm not complaining - this thread suddenly became the most open accounting for 'what has happened' that has ever existed on this project.

Craig - using what Ed has disclosed above, can you please post up actual numbers so everyone knows where things are at?

Why is it any of my business?

I was a day 1 pre-order - and waited 2.5 years to get it.

I contributed to the dev fund on my original order.

I donated for a status icon on the board here.

I purchased the metal pandora keychain thingy.

I was an early pre-order for the 1Ghz Pandora - and got lucky enough to get mine out of the first 70 - that was supposed to be a buy one fund one deal.

I have since donated to Ed to help with the backorder queue.

I and others like me have supported this project - and directly given you and ED $$$$ to help.  With the current fatalistic posts, it would be very nice to have an accounting of how far it's gotten - and how far is left to go.

So, exactly how many of each type of pre-order are still in your queue?

X original preorders

Y rebirth preorders

Z 1ghz preorders

Exactly how much money is still owed to pre-orders requesting refunds?

Exactly how many people are pending refunds?

Exactly how much money is still owed to returns?

Exactly how many people are pending returns?

Did any of the new units that ED sent you end up going out to individuals who sent theirs in for repairs?  If so, how many?

You received money from new purchasers for the 1Ghz Pandoras on the promise of immediate delivery.  Did you send any of that money to Ed to cover production costs?  If not - where did it all go?

Facts help - the rest is just posturing.  I'm not trying to condemn you for any of the above.  I'm simply trying to get the facts in the open so we all know what we're really dealing with for #s and $s.

Thank you.

 

[EvilDragon]

You received money from new purchasers for the 1Ghz Pandoras on the promise of immediate delivery.  Did you send any of that money to Ed to cover production costs?  If not - where did it all go?

Just a quick reply from me:

I got 20 units paid at one time which I have NOT included in those numbers above.

The remaining unpaid ones just had been changed into the free ones, thus diminishing the queue.

 

[skeezix]

Yeah, craig swallowed (sent to refunds in one lump) the 1ghz money that was to go to ED, for the units ED made. That was .. fun. ED running a bank it seems

..

Anyway, as per usual, Craig has _not said how big his queue is *now*_, nor provided a list to ED. Seriously, how many hundreds of times can this be dodged? Its such a simple thing to look up...

..

Please, Craig.. people are trying to help you, and ED _is_ bailing you out as fast as he can. He sells units, and his revenue turns into units to cover your losses. Thats really generous of him. But theres onyl so much he can do on _speculation_ .. you cough up some numbers, and your and his lives are so much easier And really, you shoudl be extra nice to ED.. since you're expecting him to assist with iCP@ production, and not paying him a penny for it

--

Lastly.. for gods sake man, be better on your communications; if not here, at least for the iCP2. Your new baby, that you're totally bungling up the comms. You can repair that one pretty easily. But if you keep buggering that up, then you'll have a couple messes to your name, and that reflects poorly on you. The iCP2 communications is easy to fix! (hopefulyl the production goes smoothly, too.)

jeff

 

[vcoleiro1]

Sadly the biggest issue right now isn't the pre-orders Craig has left, but IMO the much larger refund list he has.  I'm still not clear on how those people who have requested a refund will get their money when Craig has none left in his company.

 Is there is a plan for this?, ie if requested by Craig, can he receive cash for units sold instead of a Pandora?

Also how many refunds does Craig have to fulfill? - and Ed for that matter.

 

[leathco]

Sad situation, especially exploding publicly as it has. I hope this all geta resolved as we all beleive in the Pandora as an open handheld. I hope the Project stays alive and we see a Pandora 2.

I also hope the icp2 is a success, as i have my worries about it with the slow updates and delays.

Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using Tapatalk 2

 

[EvilDragon]

Sadly the biggest issue right now isn't the pre-orders Craig has left, but IMO the much larger refund list he has.  I'm still not clear on how those people who have requested a refund will get their money when Craig has none left in his company.

Is there is a plan for this?, ie if requested by Craig, can he receive cash for units sold instead of a Pandora?

That wouldn't be a problem for me.

Ah, right:

In case you wondered why the numbers for my customers are not matching:

Forgot to mention: The remaining units are basically finished (and therefore, the people are not in the preorder queue anymore), but I couldn't contact them via email to ask for the current address, so they're not shipped yet. I'll send them letters via snailmail as well.

 

[Timstertoo]

Sadly the biggest issue right now isn't the pre-orders Craig has left, but IMO the much larger refund list he has.  I'm still not clear on how those people who have requested a refund will get their money when Craig has none left in his company.

 Is there is a plan for this?, ie if requested by Craig, can he receive cash for units sold instead of a Pandora?

Also how many refunds does Craig have to fulfill? - and Ed for that matter.

I don't believe ED has any refunds to fulfill, if any they asked this week or so.

This is pure speculation on my side but I'd say ED services Craig's orders because the people stuck in there and gave their trust to the whole OPT, the refunds are very much Craig's problem. If only because he had a spell where he took every opportunity to tell people they could always go for a refund if they didn't like things where going as it was cheaper then sending them a Pandora. I guess "Be carefull what you wish for." has taken a whole new dimension for him.

Like the Indian cast system all the casts higher then the pariah are content because at least there is still a cast below them. Until I find out that I'll never recieve my late first batch GBAX Pandora (I'm expecting that message later this year) I'll be happy I didn't go for a refund because as it appears at this point in time they are well and truly screwed and left with no one who cares.

Lastly, if I were in dire straits and didn't do fuck all to save whatever is left to save (like promotion, simple changes to the website etc etc) and someone would step up and service my customers, I'd like to think that I'd show a lot more gratitude and humility then Craig does. I'm truly shocked by his egocentric behaviour and pathetic attempt of trying to manouvre himself into the victim role. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't have any mirrors in his house.