Has *anybody* received a refund from OpenPandora Ltd (Craig's) in 2013?

[konqithedragon]

Darkborn has received a warning.

doh, I'm jaleouse, I still haven't worked out how to get even a single point...

I got one warning by Craig two years ago , for no specific reason  :lol:   am i supposed to be glad? 

Achievement Unlocked

 

[moxie]

Darkborn has received a warning.

doh, I'm jaleouse, I still haven't worked out how to get even a single point...

I'm sure that I could throw together a quick guide for you, if you like?

 

[Exophase]

I got one warning by Craig two years ago , for no specific reason  :lol:   am i supposed to be glad? 

Did yours ever get removed? Mine didn't ;p

 

[Grench]

Exactly.


The authorities don't care whether there's some external guy trying to help or not.

Almost.

I think that at least in the US, when a company goes insolvent the local authorities wind up auctioning off the assets.

By filing a claim with them - you could argue that the client list itself has value and should be an item on auction.

Then buy it.  The value might be something in the range of $0.25 per name on the list.  After all, they are potential future 'post Pandora' customers for you.

There is an idea that we hadn't thought of before.  Buy the list off of CraigIX's company for some nominal price before it liquidates.

It doesn't feel 'right' but it might be an option to help 'close out' that relationship.

 

[b_o_b]

Exactly.


The authorities don't care whether there's some external guy trying to help or not.

 

[vcoleiro1]

Would a administrator/liquidator share the remaining Craig pre-order number with ED.  IMO , most likely. 

Why?,  its the administrators job to try and best provide creditors with what they are owed.  As administrator the first thing they will do is investigate all agreements and background .  He will  discover the current agreement between ED and Craig and would in no doubt contact ED to see if the agreement could be continued to fulfill Craigs pre-order customers (The creditors) .This would involve of course the administrator giving ED numbers of remaining Craig pre-orders.  Of course ED would only be responsible for the remaining amount under the initial 800 agreement.

All up, IMO, it  is more than likely the administrator would share the number with ED to try and resolve the situation with the creditors ie the pre-orders  .  That is the administrators job.

Should bankruptcy be filed against Craig though, IMO - No.  Nothing would be gained other than perhaps a current outstanding pre-order number being shared with ED.  At the end of the day it wont matter, because all ED can do regardless of that number is deliver the remaining Pandoras under the initial agreement regardless of what is remaining.   Bankruptcy would achieve near nothing.

 

[EvilDragon]

He would not find any agreements, as nothing has been written down (except for discussions via mail or MSN)

 

[vcoleiro1]

Sorry ED , I did have the word verbal in all that text which seems to have been deleted.  Basically the administrator would look at all agreements including verbal, email, letters, faxes,  etc .  They are pretty thorough and would in no doubt also look at whats written in the Business Plan. 

On a seperate note. ED in relation to a prior post of yours where you excellently explained remaining pre-orders.  Can you help me clear some things that are a little unclear to me.  I have posted your figures below with my questions in bold italics

Parts bought from Craig: 189 Pandoras   -  Are these Pandoras Craig bought in exchange for his parts?


Shipped to Craig: 242 Pandoras - I imagine these are from the profit share?


Shipped to Upgrades (Craigs customers): 157


Total units shipped: 588


Total units (excl. Upgrades): 431


Queue remaining from those 800: 212

The figures below don't seem to add up,  I'm sure I'm missing something, can you explain them for me

Shipped to Upgrades (my customers): 55 


Total units shipped: 370


Total units shipped (excl. Upgrades): 363


Queue remaining from those 500: 25

 

[skeezix]

Dredd .. You have a small piece of the information .. Don't forget that we deva have been personally insulted many times, and never gotten a word of thanks.. Just blame for everything being our fault to the infamous mind controlling of ED.


So ... I long defended craig until he finally crossed the line, slinging insults and total BS to cover his ass. No more covering for him.


So no dev is slurring anything.. We are all holding punches anyway..


Jeffphone

 

[skeezix]

My favorite of course was me and the others being called Lintards for using linux and not android like his world view wanted. Android of course did not exist at the time... The pandora was all failure because of that, he told me..

 

[kasp]

Good luck trying to pursue a verbal agreement across countries. An administrator would look at that and throw it straight into the too hard basket.  ED is too nice of a guy to let Craigs customers get screwed over.  I wouldn't rely on an administrator making it happen though, 

My favorite of course was me and the others being called Lintards for using linux and not android like his world view wanted. Android of course did not exist at the time... The pandora was all failure because of that, he told me..

Craig is just one of those people who can never accept fault for anything.  These people are infuriating at times because they put on this insane blame game and it makes it extremely difficult to work with and pisses everyone off. 

  Interesting theory with the use of android, apart from the fact it didn't exist I really doubt it would have added to the project at all.   I haven't even bothered adding the Android port yet as I don't see the point of it, I have my phone for that.  Not to mention the issues that adding android to the pandora as an OS would cause.

 

[vcoleiro1]

Good luck trying to pursue a verbal agreement across countries. An administrator would look at that and throw it straight into the too hard basket.  ED is too nice of a guy to let Craigs customers get screwed over.  I wouldn't rely on an administrator making it happen though, 

My favorite of course was me and the others being called Lintards for using linux and not android like his world view wanted. Android of course did not exist at the time... The pandora was all failure because of that, he told me..

Craig is just one of those people who can never accept fault for anything.  These people are infuriating at times because they put on this insane blame game and it makes it extremely difficult to work with and pisses everyone off. 

  Interesting theory with the use of android, apart from the fact it didn't exist I really doubt it would have added to the project at all.   I haven't even bothered adding the Android port yet as I don't see the point of it, I have my phone for that.  Not to mention the issues that adding android to the pandora as an OS would cause.

It's more than just verbal agreements though, email in a lot of countries can be binding as can whats written in the business plan. Verbal agreements as proof would be the last thing in the list. Anyway, whether it will be legally binding or not isn't really the point, the point is the agreement will be found by the administror and leed him to ED to try and resolve the pre-order creditors, if ED agreed he would be privy to the Craigs remianing pre-order numbers which is what we were discussing

 

[darkborn]

I'm sorry darkbom, you had some good points in that wall of text, but threatening Craig with physical violence is way over the line. Moderators please handle this.

You're right. I have to find some other way of violence to use. Physical is so XX century. ZZAP!


Seriously: It was just a paraphrasing nonsense that C said. As I explain some post before.

Thank you for the answer.


 By my personal accounting, my purchasing agent (CraigIX) failed to forward the portion of the monies I had given him that should have gone to the manufacturer (ED) for the device I received.  This failure to make this payment effectively, in my mind, makes the 1Ghz Pandora in my possession stolen property.


As such, I feel a moral obligation to provide compensation to ED for the funds CraigIX should have paid him for the wholesale purchase of one 1Ghz Pandora.

I wouldn't want that. As mentioned, I substracted that amount already from his other queue as compensation.


And it's certainly not your fault he didn't pay for it.


You are always welcome to make any donation, but I wouldn't want to charge anything for that.

No worries.  I'm not doing it because I -have- to but because I -want- to.

I paid $700 - half of that roughly for production costs $350 works out to 270.29 EUR.

My 275 EUR donation got nibbled down to 263.92 EUR by Paypal.

Close enough to ease my conscience.  

Now - those of you who were like me and got lucky enough to have actually received your pre-ordered 1Ghz Pandora from CraigIX's shop without having to cross upgrade - give it some thought.  You don't have to donate to this level, but considering how lucky we all were to actually -get- the Pandora we paid for inside a reasonable time frame, chipping a few EUR back into the actual build queue doesn't hurt.  As a person running a charitable organization once stated:  "Give until it feels good."

Let's clear a chunk of that queue.

Thank you for your kindness. You really do not need to - but I suppose you realize that act like this is helpfull. I welcome you to do that, just because mr. C can see that even if he doesn't care, other people do.

AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT: GOOD NEWS!


As it seems, ED will probably clear his pre-order list soon. I think it is the best oportunity to get great marketing attack, and to get confidence (and customers, donors, fans...) back to the project & welcome new members of community.

I think that work on this PR project shoud start asap - right now, because time is running out.

My suggestion is that OP team (?) have to form a PR team, that will have to make 5-20 ready-to-use news-stories in advance, about what is going on, why do we have to celebrate etc.

And then - spam to medias... with some secret hook like "because of this happening, only this month prices will be 5% off"

Just as an example: because Pandora is able to run Android, few of this stories could be used with a special intro related to Android. This could be then proceeded to Android.specific related sites. This aproach should be used for ARM-related, portable, gadgets, consoles, Linux, retro, emu... you got the point.

It is demanding, serious job and it should be taken seriously. Please somebody make new topic about it and start to recruit volunteers and ideas.

 

[Loonie]

My favorite of course was me and the others being called Lintards for using linux and not android like his world view wanted.

 

[ekianjo]

My favorite of course was me and the others being called Lintards for using linux and not android like his world view wanted. Android of course did not exist at the time... The pandora was all failure because of that, he told me..

 

[elwing]

It's just lucky for the rest of us that the device did not turn out to be what he wanted. 

I have to disagree, I'd prefered if it turned out to be an android device... that way I wouldn't have bought it and being in a 300euros loss...

 

[sswam]

By filing a claim with them - you could argue that the client list itself has value and should be an item on auction.

Privacy concerns, anyone?


When I order from a company, I don't give them permission to share my address with random other companies!


What would stop a spammer from buying the list? Privacy law.


In fact I doubt Craig is legally allowed to give his customer list to ED,


unless he would contact each and every customer for permission to share their info.

He'd would not want to do that, especially if he's being sued :/

Dredd .. You have a small piece of the information .. Don't forget that we deva have been personally insulted many times, and never gotten a word of thanks..

Well I've personally thanked various devs many times. Do you mean Craig never thanked you or gave you credit? I don't think that's true.

My favorite of course was me and the others being called Lintards for using linux and not android like his world view wanted. Android of course did not exist at the time... The pandora was all failure because of that, he told me..

Craig wanted to use Android ... before Android existed?? Are you sure you got that right?

You're right. I have to find some other way of violence to use. Physical is so XX century. ZZAP!

LOL. It's nice to know, I feel more confident darkborn is not a mobster.

My 275 EUR donation got nibbled down to 263.92 EUR by Paypal.


Let's clear a chunk of that queue.

You're the man!

And now that I have some Android experience under my belt, I can tell you that I am grateful for the decision to use Linux.

Agreed. Anyhow, we can now run Android also.

Had the Pandora been an Android device nobody would have bought it in the first place

Pandora a unique combination of many rare features.


There still would have many customers, but not all the same customers.


My payday tomorrow, I'll make a donation but it won't be 275 EUR!

Oh by the way, please don't sue Craig:

 1. your refunds will never come

 2. craig's outstanding pre-orders will never be filled

 3. craig won't be happy

 4. my donations will stop

 

[moxie]

AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT: GOOD NEWS!

As it seems, ED will probably clear his pre-order list soon. I think it is the best oportunity to get great marketing attack, and to get confidence (and customers, donors, fans...) back to the project & welcome new members of community.

I think that work on this PR project shoud start asap - right now, because time is running out.

My suggestion is that OP team (?) have to form a PR team, that will have to make 5-20 ready-to-use news-stories in advance, about what is going on, why do we have to celebrate etc.

And then - spam to medias... with some secret hook like "because of this happening, only this month prices will be 5% off"

Just as an example: because Pandora is able to run Android, few of this stories could be used with a special intro related to Android. This could be then proceeded to Android.specific related sites. This aproach should be used for ARM-related, portable, gadgets, consoles, Linux, retro, emu... you got the point.

It is demanding, serious job and it should be taken seriously. Please somebody make new topic about it and start to recruit volunteers and ideas.

Constructive thinking! Oh, my - What is the world coming to?

I approve of this.

 

[moxie]

By filing a claim with them - you could argue that the client list itself has value and should be an item on auction.

 

[notaz]

Dredd .. You have a small piece of the information .. Don't forget that we deva have been personally insulted many times, and never gotten a word of thanks..

Well I've personally thanked various devs many times. Do you mean Craig never thanked you or gave you credit? I don't think that's true.