Has *anybody* received a refund from OpenPandora Ltd (Craig's) in 2013?

[b_o_b]

It's pretty clear that Openpandora Ltd has no assets. Forcing the company into bankruptcy and liquidation is pointless. No one would get anything.

I am not so sure about that. Pretty sure if it was beneficial for Craig he would file for bankruptcy tomorrow.

Requesting bankruptcy doesn't cost that much (but still more than 1 Pandora, so should be a joined effort). After that I assume the company is forced to open the books and we will know exactly how much pre-orders he had. 

Then Ed can take over the business completely. ED can take care of the pre-orders after bankruptcy just as he does now and refunds should be changed to delivery of Pandora's. 

Craig should be removed from the equation completely.  

 

[EvilDragon]

Thank you for the answer.

 By my personal accounting, my purchasing agent (CraigIX) failed to forward the portion of the monies I had given him that should have gone to the manufacturer (ED) for the device I received.  This failure to make this payment effectively, in my mind, makes the 1Ghz Pandora in my possession stolen property.

As such, I feel a moral obligation to provide compensation to ED for the funds CraigIX should have paid him for the wholesale purchase of one 1Ghz Pandora.

I wouldn't want that. As mentioned, I substracted that amount already from his other queue as compensation.

And it's certainly not your fault he didn't pay for it.

You are always welcome to make any donation, but I wouldn't want to charge anything for that.

 

[b_o_b]

You haven't heard of class action lawsuits?


And anyway, some people are pretty petty and will want a company to go into bankruptcy even if they get nothing out of it. There are probably things that can be done to force them into bankruptcy without even filing a lawsuit or hiring a lawyer..


Extend what I said about lawsuits to any kind of retaliative action, including reporting them to the BBB.

This is probably what you are referring to. 

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/pdfs/guidanceleafletspdf/howtomakesomeone.pdf

7 How much will it cost to make someone bankrupt?

Petition deposit of £600 towards the costs of administration of the bankruptcy -

this is a one-off payment towards the costs of the bankruptcy, and if the 

bankruptcy has enough assets, the petition deposit will be refunded to you

Court fee of £190. 

Any costs for instructing a solicitor.

Still a considerably amount with no guarantee you will get something refunded. Still very glad I ordered from ED on day 1  

 

[Timstertoo]

You haven't heard of class action lawsuits?
And anyway, some people are pretty petty and will want a company to go into bankruptcy even if they get nothing out of it. There are probably things that can be done to force them into bankruptcy without even filing a lawsuit or hiring a lawyer..
Extend what I said about lawsuits to any kind of retaliative action, including reporting them to the BBB.
 
This is probably what you are referring to. 
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/pdfs/guidanceleafletspdf/howtomakesomeone.pdf
 
7 How much will it cost to make someone bankrupt?
 
 
Petition deposit of £600 towards the costs of administration of the bankruptcy -
this is a one-off payment towards the costs of the bankruptcy, and if the 
bankruptcy has enough assets, the petition deposit will be refunded to you
Court fee of £190. 
Any costs for instructing a solicitor.
 
Still a considerably amount with no guarantee you will get something refunded. Still very glad I ordered from ED on day 1  

If that forces Craig to open his books and ED can see what's going on I'd be happy to chip in. If we get 50-100 of us to put something in the pot it would be relatively painless.

Do we have an English forum member who is knowledgeable in this field and can oversee matters?

Verstuurd van mijn GT-I9100 met Tapatalk

 

[b_o_b]

If that forces Craig to open his books and ED can see what's going on I'd be happy to chip in. If we get 50-100 of us to put something in the pot it would be relatively painless.


Do we have an English forum member who is knowledgeable in this field and can oversee matters?

10 Where can I get more information?

For general enquiries you can contact The Insolvency Service Insolvency Enquiry Line on

0845 602 9848 or email Insolvency.Enquiryline@insolvency.gsi.gov.uk

 

I would call this number and ask for guidance. Maybe after explaining the situation they have better solutions to protect customers. 

 

[rohezal]

Are you sure that ED gets all the books from Craig when he is bancrupt, not only the informations about the 150 ghz preorders Craig did not pay for? Not sure if a preorder customer gets the full bussisness reports when a online shop goes bancrupt. But I don't know.

Anyway I had an idea about getting the Pandoras delivered faster. Maybe you want to have a look at it (the linked post is most interessting I think):

http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php/topic/12344-use-donation-half-the-cross-upgrade-money-to-speed-queue-cleaning-up/#entry231527

 

[b_o_b]

Are you sure that ED gets all the books from Craig when he is bancrupt, not only the informations about the 150 ghz preorders Craig did not pay for? Not sure if a preorder customer gets the full bussisness reports when a online shop goes bancrupt. But I don't know.

Anyway I had an idea about getting the Pandoras delivered faster. Maybe you want to have a look at it (the linked post is most interessting I think):

/index.php/topic/12344-use-donation-half-the-cross-upgrade-money-to-speed-queue-cleaning-up/#entry231527">http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php/topic/12344-use-donation-half-the-cross-upgrade-money-to-speed-queue-cleaning-up/#entry231527

 

[Grench]

Thank you for the answer.


 By my personal accounting, my purchasing agent (CraigIX) failed to forward the portion of the monies I had given him that should have gone to the manufacturer (ED) for the device I received.  This failure to make this payment effectively, in my mind, makes the 1Ghz Pandora in my possession stolen property.


As such, I feel a moral obligation to provide compensation to ED for the funds CraigIX should have paid him for the wholesale purchase of one 1Ghz Pandora.

I wouldn't want that. As mentioned, I substracted that amount already from his other queue as compensation.


And it's certainly not your fault he didn't pay for it.


You are always welcome to make any donation, but I wouldn't want to charge anything for that.

 

[crow_riot]

hm just jumping in. i'm not 100% sure about this ... where i live, when you file bankruptcy on a company you are not allowed to run another company right away. so if you are going to send craigs open pandora ltd into oblivion, it might have direct impact on the icp2. i totally understand that lots of you are angry, but going that way? not sure if it's the right thing todo.

 

[EvilDragon]

I doubt I will get insight into his customer books when he is forced into insolvency.

Why should I?

Whether it has an impact on iControlPad Ltd. is something I cannot answer myself.

In Germany, you only are not allowed to be the CEO of another company for a while when it turns out that you were responsible that the other company has been closed down.

In case that happens and you own another company, you need to hire a new CEO in that case.

No idea how it's in the UK.

 

[davidgro]

Just to refresh my memory, how much again is it to upgrade (and is there more than one option or is it just to 1GHz)?

(In USD$ if possible)

.

...

An upgrade costs 375€. Lets say people who waited most (people after the 800) and can not afford an upgrade,  can get 176€ from donation cash and must pay 199€ for an upgrade to a giga pandora. It is for most people more easy to get 199€ than almost 400€. And it would be a psychological effect, since they are "saving" some money (280€ + 200€ = 480€ instead of 540€). I think a lot of people would do it.

And since the rebirth sales are vey low: Maybe do the same with the rebirth units, when there are people beyong the 800 preorders. Community subsidized upgrades, when every else does not work. This way ED could deliver the double amount of Pandoras, with the current donations, since a lot of people would take this offer I think.

Edit: Addition:

Maybe let them choose. We don't have enough money to refund you or to deliver your old pandora order. But we can give a partial refund (176€) or a newer stronger Pandora for production costs and a 176€ discount on the production costs (you just have to pay 199€ instead of 540€ for a giga hertz Pandora). I would take this offer.

I'm confused. It looks like you're saying that the upgrade price is currently only 77.94€ less than the price of a new one.

... That's not even 20% off. I thought it was at least significant, if unreasonable.

Yes, making the upgrade 199€ (about US$260 at the moment says Google) would be a huge difference, I would do it, even considering what I already paid Craig.

This is however just wishful thinking on your part, right? or have there been discussions of making the "upgrades" actually upgrades?

 

[rohezal]

This is however just wishful thinking on your part, right? or have there been discussions of making the "upgrades" actually upgrades?

I made a seperate thread about it, and talked about how to realise it. I am not sure if ED thinks it is a good idea. And I am no bussisnes man. But I believe it could work and make the queue going down a lot faster.

My Idea: http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php/topic/12344-use-donation-half-the-cross-upgrade-money-to-speed-queue-cleaning-up/#entry231527

 

[Grench]

Using the donation pool to 25% to 50% subsidize cross upgrades from CraigIX's customers to ED's queue makes good sense.  I would lean more toward the 25% subsidy per cross-upgraded order.  Especially after we get 100% of ED's queue is cleared out in the current 50/50 unit per unit split - per ED's agreement with CraigIX.

Further - IMHO no refunds or cancellations for cash should be addressed until the queues of those waiting or an actual console are complete.  After all, a refund or cancellation costs nearly twice as much to clear from the queue as a delivered unit.

In the end, though, this is all up to ED to figure out.

 

[b_o_b]

I doubt I will get insight into his customer books when he is forced into insolvency.


Why should I?


Whether it has an impact on iControlPad Ltd. is something I cannot answer myself.


In Germany, you only are not allowed to be the CEO of another company for a while when it turns out that you were responsible that the other company has been closed down.


In case that happens and you own another company, you need to hire a new CEO in that case.


No idea how it's in the UK.

Pretty sure if the situation is explained to the authorities in the UK this information will be shared. There are a lot of customers depending on this info. 

Basically I am surprised nobody already tried this, I have seen a lot of venting going on but it was probably better to spend that time doing some research IRL. I just googled a bit and found the phone numbers after a few minutes. With a call you don't force anyone into insolvency but you gather information and can decide what to do later. 

Could also be some member already did, received a refund and left the community entirely. 

Craig might be involved in some foul play, that he is not willing to share the pre-orderlist is really strange and seems to me he might be benefiting from this whole situation. 

Would be a shame if people donating would now be sponsoring Craig indirectly.... 

 

[moxie]

I doubt I will get insight into his customer books when he is forced into insolvency.


Why should I?

Pretty sure if the situation is explained to the authorities in the UK this information will be shared. There are a lot of customers depending on this info. 

Um...What? Why would the authorities in the UK send the business information of a bankrupt company overseas to some random german dude? Of course they won't. What happens when you bring a company into liquidation is that a person is appointed liquidator. s/he gets access to all the information the company has, decides what money can be salvaged and prioritizes the outstanding debts. Then, those debtors who the liquidator deems most important gets to share the money. After that, the company is bust and the remaining information is stored in a file in an office somewhere, in case it should be needed in future court cases or something. 

If it comes to that, ED might have a claim as a debtor, but he sure as hell won't get access to the paperwork (It is not as if he is a formal partner in the business, or something). Possibly he'd get it if he bought the remains of the company, including the debts, but I doubt he'd want to do that.

By all means, call around and collect information, but make no mistake - If someone actually brings OP Ltd into liquidation, that means game over for those in the queues.

 

[EvilDragon]

Exactly.


The authorities don't care whether there's some external guy trying to help or not.

 

[klapse]

I'm sorry darkbom, you had some good points in that wall of text, but threatening Craig with physical violence is way over the line. Moderators please handle this.

 

[moxie]

Darkborn has received a warning.

 

[elwing]

Darkborn has received a warning.

doh, I'm jaleouse, I still haven't worked out how to get even a single point...

 

[konqithedragon]

It's been said before but I'll say it again

I can understant the anger and frustration... but going for legal action will get nobody anywhere... except those in the business of liquidation/administrators... etc.