First newspost coming FROM the Pyra!

[b_o_b]

Great progress, will be very interesting to see how things will evolve the next few weeks.

 

[Kev2442]

This. Is. Awesome.
You can count on me as soon as them preorders begin.

As everyone, I'd say I can't wait, but in fact, I've been following this since summer 2014, and waiting for this for my entire life. It's not Two Months™ more or less that would bother me.

 

[CrazyCapra]

WHEN I BUY MY PYRA, I'll go on the same bus , back and forth , and play for 8 hours! BECAUSE I CAN

BTW, Will the Pyra support all SIM cards? I live in a semi-forsaken place and I'm worried I won't be able to 4G. Need mah internets.

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

Well, RAM won't change, price is about 15 EUR for the 2GB, for the eMMC we're now checking the prices, and especially the MOQ (maybe we can offer different sized versions).

ED. How will you include those of us with vouchers from the old icp2 campaign in the pre-order? I have a large voucher which should cover the majority cost of a 4g Pyra.
I cannot afford to pay a full pre-order sum right now- even if you were to refund the difference later. I can pay the extra required to get the 4g model though. I guess the 4g model won't be more than 600 euros?

 

[Grench]

Well, RAM won't change, price is about 15 EUR for the 2GB, for the eMMC we're now checking the prices, and especially the MOQ (maybe we can offer different sized versions).

Please keep in mind on the eMMC, space past 16GB is irrelevant. Please get the fastest option to take advantage of that 208MB/s interface. Big space & slower speed needs are already covered by the uSD.

 

[rSl]

this is soo cool on so many levels, i just have to shout out loud and happy... *wooohooo*!!!
have fun ski'ing and watch out for any nasty rocks on the track, as we need you in one part to bring this baby into our little sweaty hands soon!

 

[notaz]

without any powersaving included yet

OMAP5 power saving should be active already, it won't improve in the future in a significant way, unless you have done something to stop it from working in your tests.

 

[TrashyMG]

OMAP5 power saving should be active already, it won't improve in the future in a significant way, unless you have done something to stop it from working in your tests.

I know CPU throttling in the mainline kernel blows. They removed the 500Mhz setting, leaving only a choice of 1Ghz and 1.5Ghz... It can always be modified for sure, I'd like a more of a Pandora like system that would allow it to be set to anything within a Range.

 

[EvilDragon]

OMAP5 power saving should be active already, it won't improve in the future in a significant way, unless you have done something to stop it from working in your tests.

Hmm, Nikolaus mentioned that SmartReflex is not yet included in the kernel, Linux only switches between 500MHz and 1GHz but it never really doesn't do anything.
That's something to check with the mailing list, I guess
[doublepost=1459206081,1459206004][/doublepost]

I know CPU throttling in the mainline kernel blows. They remove the 500Mhz setting, leaving only a choice of 1Ghz and 1.5Ghz... It can always be modified for sure, I'd like a more of a Pandora like system that would allow it to be set to anything within a Range.

Well, on Nikolaus Kernel, we changed that to switch between 500MHz and 1GHz, but it still is a lot. Especially when idling, there's nothing really needed.

 

[WizardStan]

The addition of GPS that comes with the 4G alone is for me more than enough reason to spend a little extra. 4G is not just 4G

I want GPS, not 4G... looks like I`m getting the 4G version

Depending on the MOQ, it may be possible for ED to get some 3G versions: same GPS, half the price.

 

[notaz]

Hmm, Nikolaus mentioned that SmartReflex is not yet included in the kernel

And won't be because TI are not working on it, it's not something we can do ourselves. Same as on pandora.

Well, on Nikolaus Kernel, we changed that to switch between 500MHz and 1GHz, but it still is a lot. Especially when idling, there's nothing really needed.

That's not how it works. On pandora, we have it always stuck at 1GHz, remember? The frequency scaling allows you to use less power on full usage, when idle, it's just turned off and doesn't matter if it's 500Mhz, 1GHz or whatever.

 

[EvilDragon]

And won't be because TI are not working on it, it's not something we can do ourselves. Same as on pandora.

EDIT:
Hmm, according to TI, SmartReflex is supported at least with kernel 3.14 on the OMAP5:
http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Linux_Core_Power_Management_User's_Guide_(v3.14)#Smartreflex

We don't have it on the Pandora?
Hm, what were those power saving features that were enabled with switching from Kernel 2.6 to 3.x then?
I know it gave us a boost of battery life.

Well, then maybe the question is: Is the CPU idling at the moment or is it being kept busy by some of the enabled components (as mentioned, USB, MMC, Wifi, Modem, etc. are all switched on right now).

What is this driver for?
http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/drivers/power/avs/smartreflex.c

That's not how it works. On pandora, we have it always stuck at 1GHz, remember? The frequency scaling allows you to use less power on full usage, when idle, it's just turned off and doesn't matter if it's 500Mhz, 1GHz or whatever.

I've never checked frequency scaling, but AFAIR we have a few different OPP settings for various speeds, whereas on the OMAP5 we only have two fixed ones.
Are we even using the lowest OPP that it supports?
[doublepost=1459210097,1459209330][/doublepost]Okay, some more info: I just checked Nikolaus kernel, it only supports two OPPs, one for 500MHz and one for 1GHz.
Maybe we can add some lower ones.

Also, I forgot to mention that I was using Nikolaus testing card, which uses the slow X.Org driver.
X is currently using 8,5% CPU when doing nothing, so I guess the CPU is not idling at all but constantly running with 500MHz.
On the Pandora, X uses 0,1 - 0,7% CPU, that's a huge difference.

So I guess X is our culprit right now, should probably be better when we use fbturbo.

 

[notaz]

EDIT:
Hmm, according to TI, SmartReflex is supported at least with kernel 3.14 on the OMAP5:
http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/Linux_Core_Power_Management_User's_Guide_(v3.14)#Smartreflex

3.14 refers to idle power saving, not SmartReflex (different part of the article). That's what I meant with "power saving should be active already".

EDIT:
We don't have it on the Pandora?

SmartReflex - No.

EDIT:
Hm, what were those power saving features that were enabled with switching from Kernel 2.6 to 3.x then?
I know it gave us a boost of battery life.

Idle power saving.
Like said, should be already active on your Pyra.

Well, then maybe the question is: Is the CPU idling at the moment or is it being kept busy by some of the enabled components (as mentioned, USB, MMC, Wifi, Modem, etc. are all switched on right now).

If they are not causing 100% CPU usage, it DOES idle. You can't say it's now "without any powersaving", the SoC itself should already fully power save.

What is this driver for?
http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/drivers/power/avs/smartreflex.c

IIRC it's some incomplete thing.
Anyway SmartReflex is no a general power save technique, it's just chip "fine tuning" because chips are slightly different from each other. The power saving differences from SmartReflex should be relatively minor.

I've never checked frequency scaling, but AFAIR we have a few different OPP settings for various speeds, whereas on the OMAP5 we only have two fixed ones.
Are we even using the lowest OPP that it supports?

Only if the user selects to limit his max OPP. We always use the max one by default.

[doublepost=1459210097,1459209330][/doublepost]Okay, some more info: I just checked Nikolaus kernel, it only supports two OPPs, one for 500MHz and one for 1GHz.
Maybe we can add some lower ones.

What for? Idle power saving turns it off completely, why do you need the low frequencies when it has no effect?

 

[EvilDragon]

What for? Idle power saving turns it off completely, why do you need the low frequencies when it has no effect?

Well, according to TI, part of the power management is done using a CPU governor that switches between various frequencies.
If this doesn't change anything nor save any power, why should anyone do that and why should TI suggest to use it? :O

As far as I understood the info from TI, you can predefine some OPP voltages and speed in the kernel (or board file?) and the power governor uses them and switches them around, based on the needs and settings.

 

[levi]

To me, 8 hours of desktop usage sounds okay when the 4G chip, wifi, bluetooth etc. etc. are all on full. If those can be toned down then it might beat 10 hours easily hopefully. If I can then turn the screen off when I'm not using it, it might manage my usual work day okay too, and I'd only have to have the one charger at home. But, either way, with micro-USB chargers being so ubuiqutous, having one at work and one at home isn't a problem I guess.

 

[comradekingu]

I'm putting my money where my mouth is and say ill pay a premium for enthusiast choices.
Doing the math one notices buyers of the base model have the most to gain from people doing this.

Ripping the touchscreen off some of the doublesided units, and not having to either bin or re-apply a touchscreen is a win.
Being paid more to do so is two birds to the stone.

There is no return on the 1080p screens right now, they are dead inventory. Me buying one is extra money in EDs pocket. Besides, if I can buy one, it means money saved on one 720p screen that doesnt go into my unit, the purchase price of which is now a complete writeoff as it can go into someone else's pyra. Subsidy at its finest.

Memory chips and the smaller nubs I can do myself, I can also change the colour.
None of doing it this way benefits the community as much as it could. The memory is where the extra added and perceived value makes a lot of sense from a selling perspective.

Great news!

A space key at the width of normal letter keys. So this is also a slightly hidden wish of a different keyboard layout (as this will add one additional key) and would also require another keyboard mold.

So comradekingu placed that wish at the 1000€ section for a good reason: even at this price tag that would be very unlikely to happen.

+200€ for

• Cut the trace linking the two keys together on the PCB.
  
• Two keymats instead of one. Cut a cluster of single-wide keys out of the second one and place atop the dualwide area.
• 3D print for the top keyboard section, could maybe do without this, but less hacky, this is where the money goes.

To get serious about it

• Changing the PCB, is trivial but two versions in the wild is suboptimal, linking the buttons is more cumbersome than going the other way by cutting the trace. There was one good argument for dualwide, but forgot what it was.
  
• Changing the prints for a limited set of keymats, might be cheap, would however still require two mats per unit.
• Changing the functional layout of the keymat, might be cheap, but probably not.
• New injection-mold for the keyboard side, very costly.

Since I'm not the only one who wants these things, setting up shop to do it upstream makes sense, given you can charge a markup that is far greater than for the regular model at the regular price.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Btw, factor in the price for non-conflict tin, cobalt etc. and other such options like recyclable case, simple cardboard packaging without chlorine and fancy ink and whatnot.

1. Killing people to make electronics is not good, it also doesnt combine well with the prospect of doing the rest of it in Europe under excellent conditions.
2. Not killing people can actually be more profitable. Check out the size of the Fairphone project. It is a regular phone, that defends a quite sizeable markup.

Could send them a mail asking for the lowdown, they are in it for the philanthropy it seems.

Edit: To sweeten the deal i'll niceguy this and offer to pay for the soldering tin. Ask to buy some from Fairphone, or find a good source. www.itri.co.uk http://www.conflictfreesourcing.org/
If there are some additional laudable choices to be made outside of my financial means, I'm confident money can be raised via donations from community.

Free meaningful advertising.

 

[jabz]

i don't get it, whats so desirable about a single wide space key, and willing to pay and additional 200€ for? Jeepers thats $330 in my country..

Also is there a picture to see what small nubs vs big look like?

 

[rygD]

The single wide space bar allows for certain languages/layouts that can't be done with the double wide, if I recall correctly. It basically just allows more people to have support of their native language in software, even if the markings are incorrect on the keys. The reason to pay a premium for it is to help ensure it happens, which actually helps others. My assumption is that in the long run the results of doing this means that the price drops after molds are made (if they are) and they can be sold at the normal price. Since plans are to upgrade the CPU board (and maybe the display) and not replace the whole unit, it seems like a good idea to help with longevity and wider sales. It is pretty selfless, with a bit of "my language can be mapped to the keyboard" in the short run. Even that is pretty selfless, since it brings support for others that speak/type that language.

Why not just buy a second keymat and make the mods yourself? Because it helps make it a complete professional product for others that want/need it (would you want a gap in the plastic between two keys on your Pyra keyboard?).

Edit for the nubs: I think the major difference with the nubs was how much they move from center, and how sensitive they are. I think you can put whatever you want on the top where you push with your thumb (look at the video of ED with the prototype). ck may have tried the smaller nubs, and found that he prefers those. (Someone mentioned buying the nubs that were being considered and trying them, so I guess it was ck.) ED tried both, and some others, and decided the ones he bought (in bulk before they stopped manufacturing them) were best for general use, although he planned ahead and has pads to put the smaller nubs on the board in the future, if needed.

 

[Da Dude]

Great news ED. I really like to see your prototype in action.

 

[Swordfish II]

To me, 8 hours of desktop usage sounds okay when the 4G chip, wifi, bluetooth etc. etc. are all on full. If those can be toned down then it might beat 10 hours easily hopefully. If I can then turn the screen off when I'm not using it, it might manage my usual work day okay too, and I'd only have to have the one charger at home. But, either way, with micro-USB chargers being so ubuiqutous, having one at work and one at home isn't a problem I guess.

Yep, my Pandora drops to 10-11 hours with wifi on and even further with everything on. So without everything on the Pyra should be pretty good (probably ~ 10ish hours)