Case Sneak Peek

[pmprog]

Because if you spend the time to research it, it presents itself as a very valid concern. It takes a while before everyone realizes

One thing I learnt, keyboards rarely come exactly how you want them. Every netbook and laptop I've had, or intended to buy had some keys squashed or otherwise "misplaced".
At the end of the day, as a consumer, you don't actually get a choice other than picking your manufacturer. In the case of the Pyra, there's only one manufacturer, so there's only one keyboard. You've just got to decide if it's suitable enough (or plug in a USB one).

 

[codifies]

You know the more I think about it... red... you know a dull mat, maybe with the very odd sparkly fleck's in it... There again black is.... black....

 

[moxie]

Because if you spend the time to research it, it presents itself as a very valid concern. It takes a while before everyone realizes.

This I like to call "The Philosophers Argument", because it is recurring again and again throughout the history of philosophy. From Descartes to Kant to Hegel to Rawls, and several others. They all present arguments that, in one way or another, boils down to this: 

"If a rational enough, intelligent enough, person sits down and thinks long and hard enough about this problem, then they will inevitably come to the same conclusion as me. Therefore, it is true. If they don't come to the same conclusion, it means they are not sufficiently rational, intelligent, knowledgeable, or hard-thinking". 

 

[Bosbeetle]

"If a rational enough, intelligent enough, person sits down and thinks long and hard enough about this problem, then they will inevitably come to the same conclusion as me. Therefore, it is true. If they don't come to the same conclusion, it means they are not sufficiently rational, intelligent, knowledgeable, or hard-thinking". 

I've thought about this for a while and I think it is true

 

[bzar]

Because if you spend the time to research it, it presents itself as a very valid concern. It takes a while before everyone realizes.

This I like to call "The Philosophers Argument", because it is recurring again and again throughout the history of philosophy. From Descartes to Kant to Hegel to Rawls, and several others. They all present arguments that, in one way or another, boils down to this: 

"If a rational enough, intelligent enough, person sits down and thinks long and hard enough about this problem, then they will inevitably come to the same conclusion as me. Therefore, it is true. If they don't come to the same conclusion, it means they are not sufficiently rational, intelligent, knowledgeable, or hard-thinking". 

But do avoid falling into fallacy fallacy. Just because the point is badly argued doesn't mean it is, in fact, false.

 

[Jumpman]

WOW, I didn't even know there was a keyboard layout "issue" going on. That just goes to show how well I've insulated myself to any nonsense I suppose. After the mad roller coaster ride that was the "Pandora" for many years, and then the even worse derailment that was the ICP2, I just gave up on reading these forums on a regular basis. There is just way to many negatives and arguments for me to bother with.

I check in a few times a week, and see if ED has made a new topic, and then read his OP and move on. I'm very much looking forward to the Pyra, and ED has shown me he is more than up to the task of producing this system and making this with minimal issues long term. No decisions and choices are going to be without argument, and everyone is entitled to their opinions, but some guys take it to extremes.

Thanks to ED and the team for all the work so far, and I'm very much looking to buying a Pyra sometime later this year, it's looking great.

Chris

 

[codifies]

WOW, I didn't even know there was a keyboard layout "issue" going on. That just goes to show how well I've insulated myself to any nonsense I suppose. After the mad roller coaster ride that was the "Pandora" for many years, and then the even worse derailment that was the ICP2, I just gave up on reading these forums on a regular basis. There is just way to many negatives and arguments for me to bother with.

I check in a few times a week, and see if ED has made a new topic, and then read his OP and move on. I'm very much looking forward to the Pyra, and ED has shown me he is more than up to the task of producing this system and making this with minimal issues long term. No decisions and choices are going to be without argument, and everyone is entitled to their opinions, but some guys take it to extremes.

Thanks to ED and the team for all the work so far, and I'm very much looking to buying a Pyra sometime later this year, it's looking great.

Chris

good grief, far to sensible ...

 

[_wb_]

Looking great!

Also I like that color.

 

[moxie]

Because if you spend the time to research it, it presents itself as a very valid concern. It takes a while before everyone realizes.

This I like to call "The Philosophers Argument", because it is recurring again and again throughout the history of philosophy. From Descartes to Kant to Hegel to Rawls, and several others. They all present arguments that, in one way or another, boils down to this: 

"If a rational enough, intelligent enough, person sits down and thinks long and hard enough about this problem, then they will inevitably come to the same conclusion as me. Therefore, it is true. If they don't come to the same conclusion, it means they are not sufficiently rational, intelligent, knowledgeable, or hard-thinking". 

But do avoid falling into fallacy fallacy. Just because the point is badly argued doesn't mean it is, in fact, false.

That is, indeed, true. Did you think about that long and hard?

 

[bzar]

That is, indeed, true. Did you think about that long and hard?

Nope, fallacy fallacy is my favorite fallacy

 

[fusion_power]

Hinge mechanism Idea:

2 lock bulbs for stability instead of one, and 3 (or more) lock positions (closed, open some 160ish degrees, full open) metal, simple, FCK Nintendo!

The strenght of the spring decides about how stiff the lid acts, in theory this should produce enough friction to have a save and solid lid positioning.

 

[codifies]

yeah well you won't say FCK Nintendo when ED has to recall a bunch of Pyra's and his shop goes under, due to extensive legal costs......

 

[WizardStan]

There are no legal costs, Nintendo doesn't have a patent on multi-lock hinges or anything. The problem is that he can't get them. Period. The hinges are off-the-shelf parts, meaning they are available in bulk and, most important, cheap. The company he is buying them from does make a multi-lock part but they only sell that to Nintendo. ED has said he could ALSO have them build a multi-lock hinge for him but the cost would be insane. There's no fighting Nintendo over this, it's a matter of supply.

Find a company that sells off-the-shelf hinges in bulk for commercial uses, that's the only way we'll get something different.

 

[codifies]

good grief you mean this is one of the rare cases that a multinational couldn't patent something obvious and blackmail the competition.... remind me what were patents *supposed* to be for originally - sad when the natural assumption is that patents are being abused again.....

 

[Grench]

At least make it to lock at 145° as Fusion_Power said.

 
As mentioned above, already done (but not at 145°, as that would not match with a proper holding / viewing angle.

ED, this statement has me confused.

IF:

0° is 'closed' with the lid down over the keyboard.

90° is lid perpendicular to the keyboard.

180° is 'open flat' with the lid flipped over to be in the same plain as the keyboard.

Something midway between 90° and 180° (roughly 145°) is the most used position for my Pandora's screen.

I generally want the screen vertical to perspective.

If I set it on the desk to use as a media player, I look down from an angle at it.  ~145°.

Used lying down - 145° or so.

Used sitting in a plane, hands resting on the tray table, 145° or so.

The only use case I can think of to have it 'fully open' to it's 170° is when standing on a train and running the Pandora at belt level.

Personally I'd like to have 'no tension' from 0-60°, fantastic tension from 70°-180° (or wherever full stop is.)

But, nevertheless, somewhere between 130° and 150° is the most used screen position used on my Pandora.

 

[fusion_power]

yeah well you won't say FCK Nintendo when ED has to recall a bunch of Pyra's and his shop goes under, due to extensive legal costs......

I meant that with our own design we can have our own multi lock hinge without worry about Nintendo. It's perfectly legal. The hinge part in my sketch is only an example and It has nothing to do with any existing hinge parts, be it Nintendo or not.

 

[Linux-SWAT]

Sexy case !

 

[Xcl4m4t10n]

I love that idea and i think that a nice (very nice) hinge is, indeed, necessary.

 

[EvilDragon]

Build our own hinge? With what funds?

 

[Christoph.Krn]

This I like to call "The Philosophers Argument", because it is recurring again and again throughout the history of philosophy. From Descartes to Kant to Hegel to Rawls, and several others. They all present arguments that, in one way or another, boils down to this:

"If a rational enough, intelligent enough, person sits down and thinks long and hard enough about this problem, then they will inevitably come to the same conclusion as me. Therefore, it is true. If they don't come to the same conclusion, it means they are not sufficiently rational, intelligent, knowledgeable, or hard-thinking".

I must say, this looks like it could be from the producers of "This sentence is a lie."
Anyway, I too do not like to take part in the public keyboard discussions. I think that the way they are structured will just inevitably cause a back-and-forth between arguments, with the most important bits of information inevitably getting lost somewhere between page twelveteen of thread seven, and a black hole.

But since I have spent a considerable amount of time figuring out how people interact with software on the Pandora, let me note that I too do consider the Pyra's keyboard to be an underestimated problem, mainly because it looks so simple. I may not be whatever the definitions of "rational enough" and "intelligent enough" are, so let me stick to what I think we can agree on being evident:

• The keyboard will be a significant part of the interaction between users and Pyras
• By the time Pyras will be arriving in users hands, the keyboard will be set in stone
• Unless we are careful, we cannot know whether or not a significant number of users will end up being frustrated about the keyboards in situations where it could have been prevented

In other words, I would like to ask the moderation team to suggest (and if people agree, help implement) sensible changes to the way that the keyboard discussion is taking place. Many of the efforts going to waste, and all the disturbance... that is just not necessary.