Button Layout Poll - The Final Chapter

[ZoxFox]

No. No Xbox layout. SNES is fine, and since we're not emulating Xbox it would seem stupid to use the button layout

by the way...

You're RIGHT! We should make the ABXY into C-Up, C-Down, C-Left, and C-Right! And then we should change "O" and "P" on the Keyboard into "B" and "A". Don't forget to Relabel the Left Shoulder as "Z"!

and why should we do this? if you had read my post til the END then you would have known what i wanted to impress with that pics. i just wanted to show you that it´s quite common to put the A button at the bottom.

 

[-Tj-]

it's a very illogical setup

No it isn't. If anything, it's more logical than SNES layout. (unless you're speaking from a marketing standpoint)

How do you figure that? Having sequentially-named buttons across from one another isn't more logical, it's less logical. If it really is as you say, I'm pretty sure more game companies would be using similar conventions. What I find less logical is your argument that the GP2X layout is "more logical and easier to remember" because you grew up with a Genesis:

I can deal with either, but seeing as how I grew up with a Sega Genesis and not a SNES, I just find the GP2X layout to be more logical and easier to remember. That's why I would prefer the GP2X layout.

I've owned a Master System, Genesis, Sega CD, 32X, Saturn, Dreamcast, and a Game Gear, (I was a Sega fanboy pre-Dreamcast... go figure) and I still can't figure out how you think having the buttons across from each other would be better for you. :blink: Just reverse A/B and X/Y in your head. I never owned a SNES, but whenever I went to play one at my friend's house, remembering the layout was simple because it was in sequence, albeit reversed sequence.

Think of it this way: the buttons on just about every console with sequential lettering/numbering have had layouts based on the natural sweeping movements of the thumb. The most natural is to sweep your fingers across the XY or AB buttons. Or YX/BA in the case of the SNES layout.

Now I've explained why I think the SNES layout is more logical than the GP2X layout... your turn.

I never really understood the "advantage"/draw of the GP2X layout. Having "matching" buttons be across from each other is awkward.

My thoughts exactly.

Edit: didn't notice this till some below quoted it:
[quote name='God Ginrai' date='20 November 2009 - 06:34 AM' timestamp='1258734873' Well, the good news is, you normally have time to press those buttons, seeing as how QTEs never became popular until Shenmue. (In fact, didn't they create the QTE?)

-God Ginrai
[/quote]
QTEs have been around for a lot longer than Shenmue, my friend. Dragon's Lair has used this method (for the whole game, pretty much) since the '80s. Shenmue just happened to be the first to use the term "quick time event."

 

[Monk]

Well, the good news is, you normally have time to press those buttons, seeing as how QTEs never became popular until Shenmue. (In fact, didn't they create the QTE?)

You've never seen an 8-year-old pull the "sad puppy" face because he just died in an fps because he couldn't remember the right controls in time, have you?

 

[Trip]

Well, the good news is, you normally have time to press those buttons, seeing as how QTEs never became popular until Shenmue. (In fact, didn't they create the QTE?)

You've never seen an 8-year-old pull the "sad puppy" face because he just died in an fps because he couldn't remember the right controls in time, have you?

I have, funny as hell. I won the game because of it too

 

[second exodous]

From a standpoint of familiarity the SNES wins. Some people point out that not everyone had a SNES, but the SNES has the same layout as the DS, the best selling system of all time. Also, just look at the votes, 111-SNES to 19-GP2X.

It's not which layout is more logical, it's about familiarity for most people.

You can't say you had a system other than a SNES growing up and back the GP2X layout, out of the 4 buttons systems with buttons marked with letter SNES/DS has far outsold anything else. What about the people that grew up with Atari, one button should be red and the other 3 should blend in with the case and if it's not that way it's illogical.

The SNES/DS layout will make the most people happy. I'm sure whatever layout the Pandora ships with is what people will use but it looks like the vast majority prefer SNES/DS.

 

[Sphinxter]

Most Preorderers are probably just as, if not more familiar with the GP2X button layout.

The SNES may seem more familiar to many, but there appears to be that patent issue still looming over it.

Is it a risk worth taking...............probably not

It's probably not worth it for OP to ship Pandoras with the buttons in that layout, but it might be worth it to create some sort of "standard method" by which programs can find out whether people are using the default layout or the SNES layout and can adjust things like button prompts accordingly. It can't be that hard, you could just check an environment variable, and use that to determine whether to print "A" or "X" (or whatever).

That's not bad. /etc/buttons consisting of one line, 'YBXA', in the order of choice clockwise from the top.

 

[God Ginrai]

You're RIGHT! We should make the ABXY into C-Up, C-Down, C-Left, and C-Right! And then we should change "O" and "P" on the Keyboard into "B" and "A". Don't forget to Relabel the Left Shoulder as "Z"!

and why should we do this? if you had read my post til the END then you would have known what i wanted to impress with that pics. i just wanted to show you that it´s quite common to put the A button at the bottom.

I did read your whole post. I just saw the N64 controller as an easy way to poke fun at how ridiculous your original reasoning was for putting A at the bottom:

the letter "A" ist the first in the alphabet...so logically it should be at the bottom, because that´s the button which can be achieved easiest.

it's a very illogical setup

No it isn't. If anything, it's more logical than SNES layout. (unless you're speaking from a marketing standpoint)

How do you figure that? Having sequentially-named buttons across from one another isn't more logical, it's less logical. If it really is as you say, I'm pretty sure more game companies would be using similar conventions. What I find less logical is your argument that the GP2X layout is "more logical and easier to remember" because you grew up with a Genesis:

I can deal with either, but seeing as how I grew up with a Sega Genesis and not a SNES, I just find the GP2X layout to be more logical and easier to remember. That's why I would prefer the GP2X layout.

I've owned a Master System, Genesis, Sega CD, 32X, Saturn, Dreamcast, and a Game Gear, (I was a Sega fanboy pre-Dreamcast... go figure) and I still can't figure out how you think having the buttons across from each other would be better for you. :blink: Just reverse A/B and X/Y in your head. I never owned a SNES, but whenever I went to play one at my friend's house, remembering the layout was simple because it was in sequence, albeit reversed sequence.

Think of it this way: the buttons on just about every console with sequential lettering/numbering have had layouts based on the natural sweeping movements of the thumb. The most natural is to sweep your fingers across the XY or AB buttons. Or YX/BA in the case of the SNES layout.

Now I've explained why I think the SNES layout is more logical than the GP2X layout... your turn.

I never really understood the "advantage"/draw of the GP2X layout. Having "matching" buttons be across from each other is awkward.

My thoughts exactly.

Edit: didn't notice this till some below quoted it:
[quote name='God Ginrai' date='20 November 2009 - 06:34 AM' timestamp='1258734873' Well, the good news is, you normally have time to press those buttons, seeing as how QTEs never became popular until Shenmue. (In fact, didn't they create the QTE?)

-God Ginrai

QTEs have been around for a lot longer than Shenmue, my friend. Dragon's Lair has used this method (for the whole game, pretty much) since the '80s. Shenmue just happened to be the first to use the term "quick time event."
[/quote]

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. I think you've misinterpreted my posts.

First of all, I was using the fact that I grew up with a Sega Genesis as a reason that I did not find the SNES layout very logical. Therefore, I find the GP2X layout more logical, because the letters flow better in the GP2X layout..

Second, I never said that QTE's didn't exist before Shenmue. I said they didn't become popular until Shenmue, which is a true statement. I did ask whether Shenmue created the QTE, but that was a question, not a statement.

-God Ginrai

 

[Esslan]

It's probably not worth it for OP to ship Pandoras with the buttons in that layout, but it might be worth it to create some sort of "standard method" by which programs can find out whether people are using the default layout or the SNES layout and can adjust things like button prompts accordingly. It can't be that hard, you could just check an environment variable, and use that to determine whether to print "A" or "X" (or whatever).

That's not bad. /etc/buttons consisting of one line, 'YBXA', in the order of choice clockwise from the top.

while I agree it would help in in-game prompts, one problem would be manuals/readme's though. They would have to say things like: "Press the lowest face button to accept or the one on the left to cancel".
And the same thing goes for the forums. You can never use the button names to describe something to another peer.
I feel that this would kind of ruin the whole point of having names on the buttons. it's not like they are there to look at while you are playing.

EDIT: Is it me or is this post in italic?

 

[CCmachined]

The Xbox layout is also the Dreamcast layout...

 

[second exodous]

The Xbox layout is also the Dreamcast layout...

I'm not sure, but I think that combination of Xbox/Dreamcast is dwarfed by the sales of the combination of SNES/DS, but like I said I'm not sure.

The Xbox/Dreamcast layout would work better for anyone that wants to change the layout to SNES/DS though, A and B are next to each other and X and Y are. The GP2X layout just screws with anyone that wants any other kind of layout as A and B are across from each other as are X and Y.

 

[Yoyobuae]

Yep, it seems the forum tags break if upper case is used

EDIT: Its a problem with a mis-closed quote tag.
[quote

[/quote]
d
[/quote]

 

[-Tj-]

QTEs have been around for a lot longer than Shenmue, my friend. Dragon's Lair has used this method (for the whole game, pretty much) since the '80s. Shenmue just happened to be the first to use the term "quick time event."

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. I think you've misinterpreted my posts.

First of all, I was using the fact that I grew up with a Sega Genesis as a reason that I did not find the SNES layout very logical. Therefore, I find the GP2X layout more logical, because the letters flow better in the GP2X layout..

Second, I never said that QTE's didn't exist before Shenmue. I said they didn't become popular until Shenmue, which is a true statement. I did ask whether Shenmue created the QTE, but that was a question, not a statement.

-God Ginrai
[/quote]
Did the forums mess up or something? Everything's italicized, and I just noticed my previous post is horribly misquoting God Ginrai. :blink:

Anyway, calm down, we're all friends here. The Shenmue thing: I know what you were saying, and I merely stated that QTEs were around, and quite popular, well before Shenmue coined the term. Shenmue didn't popularize it, it popularized the terminology. It's only true if you're saying Shenmue popularized QTE as a term.

On the buttons, I'm sorry but I still don't understand the logic behind your reasoning. I can understand that coming from a Genesis background the SNES layout can be a bit odd, but that still doesn't explain how you think the GP2X layout is more logical than putting them in relative order. Not the fact that they're using it, mind you, just the order itself.

Edit: I just noticed your registration date. Could it be that you own a GP2X? I've never owned one, and didn't even notice the button layout till it was brought up in a Pandora topic some months ago. With that in mind, yes, it's logical to use the GP2X layout if you've owned one before, but for everyone else who's in it just for Pandora, the GP2X layout will make very little sense.

 

[Vorporeal]

It's probably not worth it for OP to ship Pandoras with the buttons in that layout, but it might be worth it to create some sort of "standard method" by which programs can find out whether people are using the default layout or the SNES layout and can adjust things like button prompts accordingly. It can't be that hard, you could just check an environment variable, and use that to determine whether to print "A" or "X" (or whatever).

That's not bad. /etc/buttons consisting of one line, 'YBXA', in the order of choice clockwise from the top.

while I agree it would help in in-game prompts, one problem would be manuals/readme's though. They would have to say things like: "Press the lowest face button to accept or the one on the left to cancel".
And the same thing goes for the forums. You can never use the button names to describe something to another peer.
I feel that this would kind of ruin the whole point of having names on the buttons. it's not like they are there to look at while you are playing.

EDIT: Is it me or is this post in italic?

You'd write manuals that refer to the default layout. Most people won't be rearranging their buttons, and those that do will know that they need to mentally change the buttons described in the manual.

Also, now the entire page is in italics. Good job guys. *sigh*

 

[bananajamslam]

I have never really understood why they don't just use A B C D on it. Why is it A B X Y? Those letters don't even make sense.

 

[MarkoeZ]

i voted for snes, A on the right looks good. but if it changes, well no problem either, remap!!!

 

[Kimundi]

I have never really understood why they don't just use A B C D on it. Why is it A B X Y? Those letters don't even make sense.

History of ABXY:

For the origins of the ABXY button scheme we must look back to the very beginning of additional buttons. When the Famicom (known as the Nintendo Entertainment System outside Japan) launched, it featured two primary buttons. While other companies labelled their (usually two) buttons with numbering such as 1 and 2 or I and II, Nintendo had instead used A and B. When the SNES was released in Japan in 1990 they added X and Y to the mix, and rotated it slightly. The format was now a diamond, with X, A, B, and Y all around, clockwise. This format became known as ABXY because of the obvious alphabetical order.

But why X and Y? Why not C and D, the next most logical letters? The likely reason for this is future-proofing. Adding C and Z to the right of ABXY would not change the way games designed only for ABXY controlled, whereas if the controller had ABCD adding E and F and moving C up beside B would affect previous games, and having the buttons in ABECDF order would not make sense.

When Sony launched their now-standalone PlayStation in 1995 for US$299, it had its own take on the diamond: instead of letters it had symbols–a Circle, Cross, Square, and Triangle, respectively. They also added two additional triggers, introducing the typical ten-button scheme of many controllers.

 

[Spectralist]

Surely you mean RED, BLUE, YELLOW and GREEN for SNES? Whenever anyone asks me what button does what I always use the colours, rather than the letters. The PlayStation brand is probably the only control layout that I actually remember.

The only SNES controllers I've seen that actually had 4 different colour buttons were the 3rd party ones. The official Nintendo controllers that I had all had two lavender buttons and two purple ones.

 

[Esslan]

Pretty sure all of the SNES controllers I've used had 4 different colours on the face buttons. Maybe it's a PAL/NTSC region thing.

 

[Asiyura]

Pretty sure all of the SNES controllers I've used had 4 different colours on the face buttons. Maybe it's a PAL/NTSC region thing.

If I remembre well, in USA you got lavender (XY) concave & purple (AB) convex buttons.
But in Japan, Europe & Australia, we got convex red A, yellow B, green Y and blue X buttons.
The SNES was redesigned for the USA, they made it full of angles and with new color scheme for the power and reset buttons.
So they made the color scheme of the pad matching the one of the console (hopefully, they did not used the same "angled" design for the pad )

 

[Monk]

Well, the good news is, you normally have time to press those buttons, seeing as how QTEs never became popular until Shenmue. (In fact, didn't they create the QTE?)

You've never seen an 8-year-old pull the "sad puppy" face because he just died in an fps because he couldn't remember the right controls in time, have you?

I have, funny as hell. I won the game because of it too

:lol: