Button Layout Poll - The Final Chapter

[WhiteBat]

doesn't matter to me but i voted snes
but if it gets shipped gp2x style and people switch the layout, just have an app or setup wizard that will change all the defaults/remap.

 

[Monk]

I don't care so strongly that, at present, I haven't even voted. That's how little I care.

However, I DO own a GP2X (F-200) but have never had a SNES in my life. As far as I can recall, console-wise I had a Binatone tennis/pong/football thing as a child, dabbled with Atari (tho I don't THINK I owned one), then went through computers until I got an X-Box. I've never even SEEN a SNES in real life, AFAICR.

 

[Yigguth]

I don't see why people get so worked up about this. The buttons on my usb controller I use are all labeled with numbers (see below), and I have absolutely no problem playing SNES games with it.
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if it gets shipped gp2x style and people switch the layout, just have an app or setup wizard that will change all the defaults/remap.

What do the labels on the buttons have to do with anything? Game programmers don't care about that, they only care about what position they are in, which is the same no matter what the layout is. It's not like if you play a SNES game your A button will be in an entirely different place. And nobody says menu navigation has to be the same on the pandora as other consoles either

 

[Vorporeal]

I don't see why people get so worked up about this. The buttons on my usb controller I use are all labeled with numbers (see below), and I have absolutely no problem playing SNES games with it.
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if it gets shipped gp2x style and people switch the layout, just have an app or setup wizard that will change all the defaults/remap.

What do the labels on the buttons have to do with anything? Game programmers don't care about that, they only care about what position they are in, which is the same no matter what the layout is. It's not like if you play a SNES game your A button will be in an entirely different place. And nobody says menu navigation has to be the same on the pandora as other consoles either

If the game ever prompts you to press a key, the labels matter. They're not going to say "press the bottom button of the four game buttons on the right half of the open face of the Pandora", they'll say "press A". It's not a massive issue, but it is worth discussing/considering.

Honestly, if we can't use the SNES layout due to trademark issues, I'd almost say just go with the Xbox layout. It's very sensible, and most likely won't come with any legal issues (as someone said, it's used often on various different controllers).

 

[benjymous]

Should've included a 3rd "I really don't mind what the buttons are called" option.

What does bother me, as a dev, is that there's no colouring on the buttons. I've always found that if you tell someone to press "X" or "A", a lot of people will have to stop, look down at their controller, work out which button is which, then press it. Somehow, showing a red icon meaning press the red button seems to be easier for the human brain to process.

It also means you can do neat stuff like highlighting objects in different colours to indicate which button press corresponds to them (such as like in PSO it colours the enemy targeting icons to indicate which attack is better suited.)

I suppose the only other option (which I find good too, UI wise) is to display a + icon with the button to press indicated (3 greyed out icons, and the button to press highlighted) - I've found that personally I perform much better in QTE type games that display their icons like this, as opposed to ones that just tell you the button name.

I know there's nothing stopping me applying a bit of airfix paint to my own machine, but it's not that useful if it's not standard across all the machines!

 

[Monk]

I don't see why people get so worked up about this.

Ease of use, with as many different reasons as there are posters, I expect.

Take my own case. We've got a couple of XBox 360 controllers here and one cheapo airflo controller. When I set up games to use these rather than keyboards, my wife and child smile on me benevolently... but during the setup I have to bear in mind that the users may not always use the same controller, that the controllers don't have the same layout, or even the exact same controls/capabilities, and that mid game my son will cry out "which button is 'strafe'???" in a panic. The x-box vuttons are lettered and coloured (identically, obviously) while the airflo ones are numbered and all black.

Having to remember which button does what for every game for each controller such that I can respond to wife or son in time to save their lives... well, I guess I'd most like the xbox layout myself, actually!

A 1-1 match with the games each user will play would be "best" (impossible). For example, if someone were to play only (or at the very least MOSTLY) games for the SNES, then having the controls labelled exactly at the SNES would make playing such games a no-brainer. The user can concentrate on the game, and not have to translate the controls - however trivial you may consider that task to be.

Existing emulator fans may have no issues - but typical "unjailbroken" console users are likely to expect in-game instructions to match the hardware they are running on.

 

[Vorporeal]

Screw it. Just put a little OLED inside each button and make it user configurable.

On a slightly more realistic note - semi-transparent buttons being lit up by multi-colored LEDs?

(These, of course, are purely hypothetical suggestions. They'd still be pretty awesome though...)

 

[benjymous]

I suppose the only other option (which I find good too, UI wise) is to display a + icon with the button to press indicated (3 greyed out icons, and the button to press highlighted) - I've found that personally I perform much better in QTE type games that display their icons like this, as opposed to ones that just tell you the button name.

Replying to myself... I just quickly mocked this design up, in case people are trying to picture it in my head.

OH NOES! ANGRY CAT ATTACK QTE!

For me, I'd not have to stop and think which button to press, as it's clearly labelled to the user what they need to do. This design could easily be streamlined into fairly small and simple icons that'd still clearly tell the user what they need to be pressing

 

[Eight Bit]

I want Triangle, circle, square, cross!! Pls re-do the moulds

 

[ZoxFox]

xbox layout pls!

the letter "A" ist the first in the alphabet...so logically it should be at the bottom, because that´s the button which can be achieved easiest.

 

[Tokiopop]

No. No Xbox layout. SNES is fine, and since we're not emulating Xbox it would seem stupid to use the button layout.

 

[ZoxFox]

No. No Xbox layout. SNES is fine, and since we're not emulating Xbox it would seem stupid to use the button layout

by the way...

where´s the A-button?

 

[Sitwon]

Most Preorderers are probably just as, if not more familiar with the GP2X button layout.

Someone must have hacked the poll again 'cuz it looks like GP2X is losing.

 

[mvickers03]

Most Preorderers are probably just as, if not more familiar with the GP2X button layout.

Someone must have hacked the poll again 'cuz it looks like GP2X is losing.

Or MAYBE SNES is winning as most people in this thread have said they would prefer SNES layout.

I voted SNES as thats what I'll be emulating most

 

[Sonict]

I prefer the SNES layout since the NDS and stuff use it, but if I have to live with the GP2X layout, I have no issues. I can get used to it.

 

[x68000]

Most Preorderers are probably just as, if not more familiar with the GP2X button layout.

Someone must have hacked the poll again 'cuz it looks like GP2X is losing.

Just because it is losing has nothing to do with how familiar they are with that layout. Opinion has always been split since GP2X was first launched.

The bottom line seems to be the same for the Pandora as it was for the GP2X, the more popular layout is most likely the heavily patented one, hence why it was never used in the first place.

 

[Vorporeal]

Most Preorderers are probably just as, if not more familiar with the GP2X button layout.

Someone must have hacked the poll again 'cuz it looks like GP2X is losing.

Just because it is losing has nothing to do with how familiar they are with that layout. Opinion has always been split since GP2X was first launched.

The bottom line seems to be the same for the Pandora as it was for the GP2X, the more popular layout is most likely the heavily patented one, hence why it was never used in the first place.

Hence why the Xbox layout might be a good compromise. I never really understood the "advantage"/draw of the GP2X layout. Having "matching" buttons be across from each other is awkward.

 

[rmm2131]

The SNES bar is longer than the GP2X one. Reckon that means win. :blink:

 

[Monk]

Replying to myself... I just quickly mocked this design up, in case people are trying to picture it in my head.

I pictured it in my head - it's much quicker and less intrusive.

It's definately a good way to go for new programs, but presumably not very practical for old games under emulation (from SNES to MAME to MESS and so on). And I get the impression that "legacy gaming" is the priority in sorting out which button goes where - after all, as you've shown, programs written in the knowledge that multiple incompatible button layouts exist can take a more enlightened approach.

 

[God Ginrai]

No. No Xbox layout. SNES is fine, and since we're not emulating Xbox it would seem stupid to use the button layout

by the way...

You're RIGHT! We should make the ABXY into C-Up, C-Down, C-Left, and C-Right! And then we should change "O" and "P" on the Keyboard into "B" and "A". Don't forget to Relabel the Left Shoulder as "Z"!

Most Preorderers are probably just as, if not more familiar with the GP2X button layout.

Someone must have hacked the poll again 'cuz it looks like GP2X is losing.

Just because it is losing has nothing to do with how familiar they are with that layout. Opinion has always been split since GP2X was first launched.

The bottom line seems to be the same for the Pandora as it was for the GP2X, the more popular layout is most likely the heavily patented one, hence why it was never used in the first place.

Hence why the Xbox layout might be a good compromise. I never really understood the "advantage"/draw of the GP2X layout. Having "matching" buttons be across from each other is awkward.

How is that awkward?

EDIT:

Replying to myself... I just quickly mocked this design up, in case people are trying to picture it in my head.

I pictured it in my head - it's much quicker and less intrusive.

It's definately a good way to go for new programs, but presumably not very practical for old games under emulation (from SNES to MAME to MESS and so on). And I get the impression that "legacy gaming" is the priority in sorting out which button goes where - after all, as you've shown, programs written in the knowledge that multiple incompatible button layouts exist can take a more enlightened approach.

Well, the good news is, you normally have time to press those buttons, seeing as how QTEs never became popular until Shenmue. (In fact, didn't they create the QTE?)

-God Ginrai