Bugs and Calculations

[Grench]

It's a stupid idea, and it would be easy to bypass if it's a software only solution. Also it seems a bit slimy for an open device to introduce crippleware.

It sure is. But then, so is creating a stripped down feature-removed system. However, since ED floated it, I offered ways that it could be accomplished. There are dangers associated with offering a 'cheaper' version. One of those is that if it is not 'inferior enough' then it's sales will cannibalize the main target device.

The only real way to make that 'cheap' version and the 'main' version concept work is to ensure that the 'cheap' version is, comparatively, to use your term,'crippleware'.

 

[elvissteinjr]

Don't forget to lock the bootloader and only allow flashing signed versions of the OS. We can't have them access root either.
They only want to play, right? It's gonna be fiiiine.

 

[Neelix]

*Shakes head* What ED was talking about was offering the user a way to save some money by leaving off a few effectively optional components. The user could get it cheaper because ED could produce it at a lower cost. That's a lot different to artificially crippling something to create a perceived difference in value.

-Neelix

 

[Klumpen]

Oh dear...
I remember people complaining about the three different Pandora versions and now you want to have this from the start? Boggles my mind.

One Pyra to rule them all.

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

Anyway, a de-featured Pyra to appeal to a low price point should be VERY stripped down such that it does not cannibalize the sales of the higher priced model. If a stripper model is made, it needs to ADD purchasers/audience rather than giving people who would otherwise purchase the main version an option to 'save money' that they would otherwise have spent.

The above is a very valid point- that could be a real concern if handled incorrectly- The problem with producing 2 versions for me is that I want the best and most powerful Pyra as frankly I'd imagine that I was missing out on something.

 

[rygD]

Oh dear...
I remember people complaining about the three different Pandora versions and now you want to have this from the start? Boggles my mind.

One Pyra to rule them all.

Yep, sounds good! US 4G.

 

[Klumpen]

Yep, sounds good! US 4G.

Don't forget that the US (with its weird special mobile frequencies) has the smaller audience in this case. The cool Europeans want Pyras, 'Muricans prefer Apple.

 

[rygD]

Don't forget that the US (with it's weird special mobile frequencies) has the smaller audience in this case. The cool Europeans want Pyras, 'Muricans prefer Apple.

Then maybe we should get more than one model (or go back to the original plan of 3G global, although many prefer 4G).

I thought it was China or somewhere that was all about Apple. They sell here, but are not nearly as popular as Android devices (or Windows...but if I had to choose between Windows and OS X I would go for the Hackintosh option).
[doublepost=1461268358,1461268194][/doublepost]Oh, and if any continent or country really wants Pyras, and ED is backlogged a long time on production as soon as preorders start, I am all for getting a 3G unit, or waiting for a US 4G one. Huge sales numbers means more goodies for everyone later.

 

[EvilDragon]

Oh dear...
I remember people complaining about the three different Pandora versions and now you want to have this from the start? Boggles my mind.

One Pyra to rule them all.

It's a difference having different major hardware in it (RAM and CPU) or just leaving out some LEDs and the controller for keyboard backlight and similar.
Sure, games that absolutely need the keyboard backlight to play them can't be played on that unit

We're not crippling the function, we're just leaving out stuff that not everyone needs

 

[Grench]

I saw in a tweet from ED today that Doc Nik is creating some Pyra specific eSATA adapters. Does this mean that the driver for the power circuit is solved or is that still in flight at the same time?

Also - with regards to the eSATA adapters - I'm sure ED and Doc Nik have considered it - but what happens if the eSATA adapter is plugged into the standard USB 2.0 port - or a USB port on a whole other device?

Hope it has been considered from a precautionary perspective so that it can't damage things. I'm overly familiar with having plugged the wrong device into the wrong plug. Pandoras really don't like 3A@14VDC.

 

[rygD]

Hmmm, maybe the adapter should be keyed. That means another case change, so I doubt it will happen.

 

[Grench]

We're not crippling the function, we're just leaving out stuff that not everyone needs

Cutting out the LEDs and related bits saves what - 15EUR or so? I suspect you'll be very hard pressed to cut enough 'optional' hardware to leave out 50EUR of hardware, which is what it would need to make a substantive difference in retail pricing as costs to cover returns, repairs, set up, etc are pretty much the same either way. Every split in model means additional costs for inventory management and differentiated parts to stock.

That is also going to be one very difficult balancing act if you are to keep sales of those units from impacting the sales of the 'main' unit. Adding a model to add additional sales is good. Adding a cheaper model with lower profits that cannibalizes the sales of a higher profit unit is bad.

Adding an entry level model that will wind up in reviewers hands does not do the project any favors either. I can already picture a reviewer getting loaned an entry model then complaining about how bad the Pyra is because it doesn't have features X, Y and Z that were removed to make it cheaper.

 

[levi]

If it's plugged into a USB2.0 port, nothing will happen as its lines don't interfere with the USB 2.0 lines. If it's plugged into a USB3.0 port you'll just get the superspeed lines pretending to be eSata lines and not working as either. Exactly what does happen is up to whoever implemented the eSata inteface on the hard disc etc. you're plugging it into, so that might do anything if it gets fed super-speed USB3.0 lines instead, but that's not anything either ED or Niklaus can do anything about.

 

[TrashyMG]

Cutting out the LEDs and related bits saves what - 15EUR or so?

It would be generous to say it may cut out 5EUR and that is including the cost of populating them on PCB.

 

[Luke-Jr]

Gyro/Acceleration Sensor, eMMC, WiFi/Bluetooth(+Antenna), halv of the Ram Chips, MicroSD/SIM Slot and maybe the Touchscreen.

Whoa, as long as we're talking about removing the eMMC and some RAM, does that mean we can later populate the board with a better eMMC/RAM?
Maybe it'd be possible to just offer it upfront as an option in the first place?

@EvilDragon Would it be difficult to put a poll on the preorders, such that if we get >=500 (or whatever the MOQ for those is) people who want a high-end version (64 GB eMMC + 8 GB RAM), it gets made, but if less than 500 people preorder it, we're committed to the current/base/low-end version?

Sure, games that absolutely need the keyboard backlight to play them can't be played on that unit

Heh, too bad the backlights aren't per-key, or someone could have done a memory game based on it XD

 

[Swordfish II]

Whoa, as long as we're talking about removing the eMMC and some RAM, does that mean we can later populate the board with a better eMMC/RAM?
Maybe it'd be possible to just offer it upfront as an option in the first place?

@EvilDragon Would it be difficult to put a poll on the preorders, such that if we get >=500 (or whatever the MOQ for those is) people who want a high-end version (64 GB eMMC + 8 GB RAM), it gets made, but if less than 500 people preorder it, we're committed to the current/base/low-end version?

Heh, too bad the backlights aren't per-key, or someone could have done a memory game based on it XD

Christ people. Are you guys ever going to stop with the "I want a one off custom Pyra," stuff. That ship sailed. Long. Long ago.

 

[vcoleiro1]

I'm really not seeing what you could cut out of the Pyra to get it cheap enough to make a pricing difference some people would consider in enough numbers to warrant the option. To me, it would require about 100 Euro to be taken of the price minimum to make it worth considering. If that requires so many things to be removed , then it starts becoming counter productive.

 

[thatgui]

It would be generous to say it may cut out 5EUR and that is including the cost of populating them on PCB.

this

Whoa, as long as we're talking about removing the eMMC and some RAM, does that mean we can later populate the board with a better eMMC/RAM?

I think I do not need more then one hand to count the future Pyra owners that would actually have access to the tools needed to accomplish that

 

[urjaman]

I think I do not need more then one hand to count the future Pyra owners that would actually have access to the tools needed to accomplish that

And I'd think like >50% of those would be able to upgrade an unit even if it had the eMMC / RAM already installed ...

 

[notaz]

It's a difference having different major hardware in it (RAM and CPU) or just leaving out some LEDs and the controller for keyboard backlight and similar.

Still it's enough to make the kernel maintainer's life miserable as it's creating another hardware variation of Pyra.

I just hope it won't be me this time...