Cellular Discussion [Split from] Bugs and Calculations

[edgex004]

What's wrong with dmix and dsnoop?

One problem I've run into on the Pandora is that dmix and dsnoop don't seem to support bluetooth audio. In order to use a bluetooth headset on the Pyra and not have one app completely take over audio, Pulse will most likely be required.

 

[ible]

@Djoga'Ro
maybe try void linux: http://www.voidlinux.eu/
it's a rolling release w/o systemd, and it seems like wayland might be in the packages.

 

[Djoga'Ro]

@Djoga'Ro
maybe try void linux: http://www.voidlinux.eu/
it's a rolling release w/o systemd, and it seems like wayland might be in the packages.

Thanks, already installed that. But the musl variant. I don't know yet, if it's feasible to compile Pale Moon against that. Didn't think about that beforehand.
And then instead of getting glibc void, I thought I give Funtoo a try. After the first few changes to the kernel configuration and compiling the thing, I was left without usb. Well, from the looks of boot up, it's more like everything is missing, but usb not being enabled was the punch in the face. Now I'm slowly building up the needed ambition to try to fix that.

 

[Silent-Hunter]

Some things I would like to have eventually not today, like no X. And I forgot a detail.

For now I'd like: rolling release, no poettering (as far as I can do it), awesome, Pale Moon of course.

What's wrong with X?

 

[TrashyMG]

What's wrong with X?

Nothing, but Wayland had no dealings with Lennard Poettering so it can be ripped out without a second thought.

 

[Silent-Hunter]

I don't understand what X has to do with Lennard's stuff though, unless X is going to start requiring systemd or something.

 

[Grench]

As far as I know, having X installed does not preclude logging in as command line. If someone wants to run the whole platform via typed commands there shouldn't be anything stopping them.

It's still silly to do, but OK. If he really wants to. I guess it could be done.

 

[TrashyMG]

I was being snarky...

 

[Silent-Hunter]

I was being snarky...

Sorry, I have a hard time telling when people are joking. It makes being social pretty hard. XD

 

[rygD]

I was being snarky...

Not enough snark, try harder.

 

[pablocrossa]

Unless 4G and 3G chips would result in an equal price, I'd rather go with the 3G chip myself, because I don't even have a 4G plan nor do I plan to get one in the forseeable future.

Also, if the 4G chip lacks 3G alltogether, then it is a no-no for me which is unfortunate since I planned on getting rid of the necessity of a secondary device for phone stuff...

Just wanted to remind people that would prefer 3G than 4G that, even on 3G only networks and countries, the 4G modem will be faster as it supports a more advanced HSDPA+ (42Mbps vs 14.4Mbps, 3 times the speed), so even in those situations the 4G module would be advantageous. Plus future expandability if/when you or your network provider decide you want 4G. Plus the lowered RTT, cannot stress that enough.

 

[Luke-Jr]

Are you not planning on using the default OS?

I'm planning to run Gentoo, myself.
[doublepost=1461003902,1461003770][/doublepost]https://www.mail-archive.com/alsa-user@lists.sourceforge.net/msg31357.html

 

[Djoga'Ro]

What's wrong with X?

I'm no expert. I just have the impression it's overcomplicated and brings in to much. And since there's a lighter and more direct alternative on its way... land. I'm not saying X is wrong or bad or whatever, but why would I want to have it on my computers? Same goes for FHS, postfix and - I'm sure - alot of other things, I still have to become aware of.

 

[Grench]

I'm no expert. I just have the impression it's overcomplicated and brings in to much. And since there's a lighter and more direct alternative on its way... land. I'm not saying X is wrong or bad or whatever, but why would I want to have it on my computers? Same goes for FHS, postfix and - I'm sure - alot of other things, I still have to become aware of.

In that case, I highly recommend not utilizing a fire piston to ignite your wood fire to cook whatever you caught today as they are far too overcomplicated. Instead, try bashing rocks, rubbing sticks or waiting for the next lightning strike as an ignition source.

Just to make sure I'm not being overly snarky on this, my interpretation is that you have never actually used Linux or X or XFCE or any Linux graphical desktop management or user interface/interaction (UI) platform.

You seem to have stumbled onto a paranoid 'purist' site somewhere that advocates 'simplified computing' via removing anything but command line interactions.

For whatever reason that is attractive to you, so you would like the device to follow those restrictions and therefore have the default install package not include all of these 'extras' that would only distract the masses from the sanctity of the command line.

Does that about sum it up?

 

[Djoga'Ro]

@Grench You got where I'm heading, but you overestimate the distance I want to go. Yeah, I also stumbled over suckless et al. But that'd be far too far for me. No, I do not want to be stuck with the console. I do not want to avoid X at any costs. I just think that wayland thingy is much more sensible on my desktop or my palmtop, and I'm looking forward to be able to switch to that.
I stated several times, I cannot live without my Pale Moon (Firefox fork). That's hardly purist. Used dillo and w3m, but that doesn't cut it - not for me.

Yes, I used Linux here and there, but never had a proper system going for a longer time. Also, I already said, I have little experience.

(One can say, one's a dumb-ass again and again. There will still be people discovering, that one is not the expert one never claimed to be.)

And yes, I tend to be overambitious, hit the wall everywhich way, and sooner or later be good and done. But sometimes I still manage to achieve something.

Also, I'm not advertising here anything. I was asked, if I'm planning not to stick with the default OS and I answered, what I would like to do. It might very well have been a plain question for a yes or a no, though.

 

[Grench]

@Grench You got where I'm heading, but you overestimate the distance I want to go. Yeah, I also stumbled over suckless et al. But that'd be far too far for me. No, I do not want to be stuck with the console. I do not want to avoid X at any costs. I just think that wayland thingy is much more sensible on my desktop or my palmtop, and I'm looking forward to be able to switch to that.
I stated several times, I cannot live without my Pale Moon (Firefox fork). That's hardly purist. Used dillo and w3m, but that doesn't cut it - not for me.

Yes, I used Linux here and there, but never had a proper system going for a longer time. Also, I already said, I have little experience.

(One can say, one's a dumb-ass again and again. There will still be people discovering, that one is not the expert one never claimed to be.)

And yes, I tend to be overambitious, hit the wall everywhich way, and sooner or later be good and done. But sometimes I still manage to achieve something.

Also, I'm not advertising here anything. I was asked, if I'm planning not to stick with the default OS and I answered, what I would like to do. It might very well have been a plain question for a yes or a no, though.

Given all that, might I recommend at least trying the 'default install' to see if it's all that bad before wholesale stripping out components and features from it? The 'default install', as far as I know now, is planned to be a minimally altered to meet the hardware Debian Jessie - likely with XFCE or similar 'lightweight' UI.

Much like the Pandora, the Pyra should be cool enough to impress even the hippest of hipster techies. It's a multi-function ARM based pocket computer with massive storage and broad communication capabilities running the version of Linux from which the vast majority of popular distributions are derived. There are no other truly comparable devices.

The Pyra should grant you instant technology geek credentials in any technology based gathering merely by it's existence.

 

[Djoga'Ro]

Given all that, might I recommend at least trying the 'default install' to see if it's all that bad before wholesale stripping out components and features from it? The 'default install', as far as I know now, is planned to be a minimally altered to meet the hardware Debian Jessie - likely with XFCE or similar 'lightweight' UI.

Much like the Pandora, the Pyra should be cool enough to impress even the hippest of hipster techies. It's a multi-function ARM based pocket computer with massive storage and broad communication capabilities running the version of Linux from which the vast majority of popular distributions are derived. There are no other truly comparable devices.

The Pyra should grant you instant technology geek credentials in any technology based gathering merely by it's existence.

Your concern is appriciated, but don't worry, I'm aware of that. And as I said, I'm going to keep the default OS installed and up to date. I don't see me setting up, what I'd like to have, in any funktional way in the foreseeable future.
Edit: Even if I get there, I'll keep the default as a fall back.

Believe it or not, but the show-off-ability the pyra brings, is merely a fun factor to me.

 

[Silent-Hunter]

I'm no expert. I just have the impression it's overcomplicated and brings in to much. And since there's a lighter and more direct alternative on its way... land. I'm not saying X is wrong or bad or whatever, but why would I want to have it on my computers? Same goes for FHS, postfix and - I'm sure - alot of other things, I still have to become aware of.

XD I use postfix every day. But then again I like X, and I like using CDE, and UNIX style mailboxes.

To each their own, basically.

Also this thread has gotten a little off topic.

 

[Luke-Jr]

I'm no expert. I just have the impression it's overcomplicated and brings in to much. And since there's a lighter and more direct alternative on its way... land. I'm not saying X is wrong or bad or whatever, but why would I want to have it on my computers?

Wayland loses some X features, like network transparency (you can run X apps in VMs or even completely separate machines, but have them display locally).
Arguably, this feature is already semi-broken because modern toolkits just render everything at the application and send pixmaps, which increases bandwidth required significantly.

But more disturbingly, Wayland actually moves the entire display server into the compositor.
Compositors are complex, and tend to have memory leaks and/or crashing bugs.
With X in the middle, you could just restart the compositor and keep going without losing anything - but with Wayland, I fear all the apps will die too.
And even if everything is bug-free, this means you cannot upgrade the compositor without restarting all GUI applications.

 

[levi]

Perhaps compsitors are complex and tend to have bugs because they're trying to implement the overcomplex X spec? I dunno, I don't recall having one crash on me (while I experience a display driver crash about once a month - but at least those partially recover themselves automatically).

I dunno though; I have wayland installed as a dependency of gtk3 here, but I've never knowingly started to use it yet. I will miss network transparency, but I always connect to my other servers using SSH and only occasionally start X apps on my local server - I'm mostly happy with tmux for my windowing needs.