And suddenly it works.


I went looking for the keyboard threads to provide him links for further reading and - I can't find them. Clearly I am search impaired.

You made that FunKey key-function-mapping program, right? Could you provide him a link to that?
Seriously? If you really want I can search them for you. Not that I'd want to delve into that particular part of the forums again. I specifically mean the talk about US keyboards being "standard", its effect on sales because "scary weird foreign symbols" and all that jazz. Search "foreign" on the relevant threads and you should find enough.

FunKeyMonkey won't erase the "german" stuff (half of it is fine for Finnish as well, hence the quotes) from the keyboards, so it won't soothe the hypothetical group of people intimidated into passing a purchase by them.

If we really wanted an "international" keyboard it should have support for quite a few more languages than Pyra's :p
 
There was a -lot- of discussions about whether or not to include native language support for Spanish as well. There were even several keyboard designs that included the full set dead key diacritics and Ñ/ñ labeled. However, by the time a keyboard gets to that level of international functionality, it also becomes very dense in it's labels - necessitating 4 per key on many keys. There was a fair amount of fear that the aesthetic would be off-putting and the labels, particularly for dead keys not used in English, would be confusing.

1st/ You are totally wrong. If yo use a letter for ä, other for ë, other for ï, other for ö, other for ü, etc, etc obviously you need a lot of keys, but if you use blind keys you need very very few: you introduce dead key ¨ and then letter. In my US-International keyboard (is a normal US keyboard with US-International layout in soft) I can type near all west European languages. I don't know why Germans can't use dead keys, as it is much more general (you use less spaces and you can introduce more combinations) and used on other language keyboards.

2nd/ I don't know why you are lost saying I want to change keymat, open debate, etc: my original message simply said to other used that it was decided Pyra would have that German-oriented keyboard (but QWERTY); it is a closed question. But you continue on and on and on saying I open a debate/etc on keyboard.
 
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Seriously? If you really want I can search them for you. Not that I'd want to delve into that particular part of the forums again. I specifically mean the talk about US keyboards being "standard", its effect on sales because "scary weird foreign symbols" and all that jazz. Search "foreign" on the relevant threads and you should find enough.

FunKeyMonkey won't erase the "german" stuff (half of it is fine for Finnish as well, hence the quotes) from the keyboards, so it won't soothe the hypothetical group of people intimidated into passing a purchase by them.

If we really wanted an "international" keyboard it should have support for quite a few more languages than Pyra's :p

Freeking weird. I just did the exact same search again and now the keyboard threads are showing up in it. I suppose I should put it to use now that it is 'found'.

For Oskda's reading pleasure:
https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/th...g-completely-different-keyboard-option.74833/
Note: That one is my personal thread which is one of dozens of far more contentious threads.

If you haven't had enough at that point, I suggest reading:
https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/comparison-matrix-for-keyboard-layout-proposals.75859/

All of that (and much much more) culminated in this:
https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/keymat-layout-the-final-poll.76143/#post-1347936

My favorite, and possibly the most flexible, international layout:
http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/b76ffdc065642c07243bad385b4a06a8
It is an unapologetic international layout built for servicing MANY languages without negative impact to English use.
Yes, the numbers and the F1-F12 keys are on the Fn layer.
Those orange circles on the lower-right keys are indicators that Fn+key and Fn+shift+key are dead key diacritics on those.
It scared the ____ out of people.

So - yes, everything that Oskda considers to be a novel point of criticism has already been discussed, hashed out and worked through in many directions to many extremes.

It's done.
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1st/ You are totally wrong. If yo use a letter for ä, other for ë, other for ï, other for ö, other for ü, etc, etc obviously you need a lot of keys, but if you use blind keys you need very very few: you introduce dead key ¨ and then letter. In my US-International keyboard (is a normal US keyboard with US-International layout in soft) I can type near all west European languages. I don't know why Germans can't use dead keys, as it is much more general (you use less spaces and you can introduce more combinations) and used on other language keyboards.

2nd/ I don't know why you are lost saying I want to change keymat, open debate, etc: my original message simply said to other used that it was decided Pyra would have that German-oriented keyboard (but QWERTY); it is a closed question. But you continue on and on and on saying I open a debate/etc on keyboard.

You replied inside of the time it took me to throw that together. Please see the above references and feel welcome to read until you become violent with the need to create your own layouts, threads and polls. Enjoy!
 
For Oskda's reading pleasure:....... Enjoy!

Oh my Good: my 1st message was only a note for other user: I said him keyboard question was decided, over, finished: they decided to do a German-look-oriented keyboard. POINT.

So I don't look for debate: the selected German-look keyboard. And I think it will hurt (community will continue mostly enclosed in only this countries), but it is done.
 
Congrats on the first plugs out look at the Pyra!!

Not that anyone cares, but man it is so freaking sexy in translucent. ED when you get a chance I'd love to see what keyboard backlighting looks like!

SO STOKED!
 
Oh my Good: my 1st message was only a note for other user: I said him keyboard question was decided, over, finished: they
Well personally, it puzzled me that you insisted it the keyboard would look escpecially german, although being qwerty,although there are as much french charackters as german ones. So I didn't get it why you did not say "german/french" or better "qwerty with some foreign characters(as there are overlaps with other languages)".

Then I read this:
But I think having German characters ßéè...
And it explained so much! So you just thought é and è are german characters too.

Riddle solved, we can move on. :)

Something to tease you guys... no strings attached, running off battery.
YAY! Great videos ahead!
Already looks nice at the photo.
 
I must admit it looks even better than i expected fully assembled now. Damn that's a sexy handheld.
 
You haven't cath what I am meaning.

I know we can compose a lot of symbols, more than composed letter we see PRINTED ON that keyboard, but the PROBLEM IS that a lot of people will see a keyboard for GERMANS, for GERMAN language (even although it isn't QWERTZ but QWERTY) and they will go away.

Do you unerstand me? I know we can compose, even redefine all keyboard (although then we loose printed symbols usability), but normal people watching Pyra for 1st time will see a product localized for German language, a roduct for Germans, and they will move on without givin Pyra a chance. They will lost Pyra posibilities and Pyra would lost a bigger comunity/market/visibility/etc.

«I wasn't even able to find a layout editor or solid picture that represented the final keyboard layout»: is it this? http://pandoralive.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/renderkeyboard.jpeg

No, AltGr, which is really just, RightAlt, is not labeled as such and will be turned off by default. It can be activated, but you probably won't want or need to. Frankly, Compose works better than AltGr. Yes, dead key diacritics were given consideration.

«German and French were made easier by housing commonly needed characters on a section of the Fn layer. Those facts do not interfere with English use OR with international use»: we know it, but a lot of people will see a German keyboard, and will go away without more investigation.

«Compose is still present. It is at Fn+space»: I know it; (look at the above picture). In German you can type German composed letters diectly (type Fn and key with that special symbol on orange), TWO KEYS; on other languages you have to type Fn key, then "Compose" (space key), then two more keys to compose: FOUR KEYS, while in a US international layout we only press 2 keys for most composed letter in near all western languages (with Latin base). Sorry but you are exactly SHOWING US this is a keyboard for GERMANS.

I write a lot of in tech blogs in my mother language, and I will speak about Pyra, but really I can't defend its keyboard (printed) layout.

«In fact, nearly every key has up to 16 distinct functional capabilities using normal, shift, Fn, Alt & Ctrl modifiers that can be set to a specific outcome»: we know, but most "normal" people will see a German keyboard for Germans (with "normal" I mean people not knowing what we know).

«What is your primary language? Maybe we can help you understand how the keyboard can work for you?»: You didn't understand me: I HAVE NO PROBLEM [1] the PROBLEM is for Pyra because "normal" people will see a German keyboard for Germans.

[1]: My mother language is Spanish (and here a normal keyboard use dead keys, except for ñ, we compose á é í ó etc with dead key). But if I buy a computer with Spanish keyboard I change it for US keyboard because it is more ergonomic, has symbols in better place for programming and tech, is the standard in retro computing I love, and I can type in any western language with easy: this layout (US International) is made for that: INTERNATIONAL (obviously with QWERTY base as it is the most used base), no "better" for xxx language and worse for others.

I must insist: I have no problem: in my normal live I use a US keyboard (with international layout in soft) to type in my other languages. I know in Pyra we can compose, redefine, etc, etc, but that is not the problem I am speaking of: the problem is that to most people it won't look an INTERNATIONAL and "neutral" keyboard but a keyboard for Germans, and a lot of people then won't consider Pyra, they will go away: that is the problem.
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Honestly you are thinking too much, before knowing anything about the Pyra, I really thought that was an English keyboard.

Now that I know a bit more, I definitely think it's an international keyboard, and I never thought it was a German keyboard, definitely not. Someone really interested in the Pyra will looks for more informations about it.

Edit: Awesome guys, the thing is alive!
 
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Do you follow Twitter?
Here's a little teaser.
Can you guess which one's the real Pyra? Don't try to focus on the logo or the number of shoulder buttons. Both have the same but only one is the Pyra.
IMG_20160311_162416.jpg IMG_20160311_162436.jpg IMG_20160311_162500.jpg IMG_20160311_162526.jpg
 
@EvilDragon Now with the side to side comparison with the Pandora, the Pyra is Bigger than i thought. Does it pass the fits-in-front-pocket test? Is that SD Card on the Pyra fully inserted? How did you try the Nubs without the Disks?
 
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Now with the side to side comparison with the Pandora, the Pyra is Bigger than i thought. Does it pass the fits-in-front-pocket test? Is that SD Card on the Pyra fully inserted? How did you try the Nubs without the Disks EvilDragon?

SD should be inserted.
It did fit in my front pocket nicely (I'm pretty big and don't wear tight pants)
It's bigger but I didn't notice it while using.

Nubs can be used without Disks. We didn't use them because we only have them printed and they don't fit well. Maybe I misjudged it and ED will try them out as well.

Come on ED, show us some more hardware pr0n!

Be patient until everything's set up nicely (OS and stuff....)
 
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