Wii 2 - Confirmed

[Prometheus]

These rumours are laughably ridiculous.

I think not, being reasonably media savvy I can usually spot the difference between wild speculation and journalists who have had an off the record confirmation.

So, you're saying you believe these rags, then?


I state that the rumours are ridiculous on the understanding of what Nintendo has repeatedly stated as their business plan. If they were to do this, it would be very stupid and very risky, and would undo all of the work they've been doing since 2004.

Also the timing makes perfect sense.

How? It would be business suicide to make a console catering to an irrelevant niche market, following in the footsteps of lesser-selling consoles, especially in this sort of economy. If this were in any way true, I would be very highly surprised.


Following on from what I mention of what Nintendo has repeatedly stated as their business plan, *absolutely nothing* about this adds up. All of the alleged specifications are just a laundry-list of ridiculous claims made by various fanboy-rags, shills, Villagers, and "analysts" (for example, Michael Pachter, of Wedbush Morgan) over the last couple of years, and the fact that that's all they are make it seem very implausible. It's so generic, not the sort of thing that anyone making a genuine leak would choose to leak - why would anyone want to leak such generic information, rather than something that could be plausibly concrete? And why is the statement "Nintendo is doing this one right, It's not a gimmick like the Wii." so prominent, as though it is a fact, when sales speak otherwise? And why are the only people these sources have gone to all of a sudden within the last day or two, well-known sites for anti-Wii, industryite rhetoric? And why would a third-party, if that happens to be the source, risk pulling a stunt like this? Why would *multiple* such people risk doing that all around the same time, to enable these couple of sites to make such claims? Why are the specifications so ludicrous as to sound like an April Fools' joke? It sounds like fanboy-rag "journalism", and wishful thinking on the part of a niche market who wouldn't buy the products anyway, to me.

 

[Jumpman]

All I can say is that Nintendo for sure needs to release a new console, so these rumors aren't totally out of the question to me personally.


The Wii was an outdated hunk of junk from day one, but by some miracle of modern man, it succeeded despite the odds. There is no way Nintendo could release another under powered machine and do the same numbers as the Wii.


So for them to release a new machine in about a year and a half that would be more powerful than 6+ year old tech is a given in my opinion. The Wii is dying a slow death, and Nintendo and Iwata where always suprised by it's market penitration from day one. Now the sales have dried up, and with the 3ds currently on the market, they really need something new and tech savy to compete with Sony and Microsoft.


The PS3 and 360 really don't need to be updated currently, as they still have some life left, and there isn't really much left to do in new hardware anyways exept for prettier graphics, and we are just about maxed out in that regard. Both consoles can do fairly remarkable things currently. The Wii is the only system that has crap online, no HD, so so controls depending on the game, ect. So if they come to market first with a next gen console, it makes perfect sense to me.


Now keep in mind I own a Wii(it has some great games), and have probably used it as much as my 360, and PS3, but that has been mainly due to it's family friendly envorement. I have a 5 yr old little boy, and most games I would like to play are not appropriate for him to watch or play. The Wii also only really has a handful of good 3rd party games, and Nintendo doesn't seem to have much on the horizen besides the new Zelda.


A new console with proper controls, along with motion aspects would be great to bring more 3rd parties back into the fold. So everything I have read looks and sounds very logical on paper. Do I believe they are true? I have no idea, but I hope they are. It would be super cool to have an HD Nintendo console with some great online functionality, and some killer 3rd party games.


Chris

 

[Prometheus]

The Wii was an outdated hunk of junk from day one, but by some miracle of modern man, it succeeded despite the odds.

It's called "Disruption" and "Blue Ocean Strategy" (look up Blue Ocean Strategy and The Innovator's Dilemma, by Clayton Christensen), and something called "value innovation". It's no miracle - it's proper understanding of the market, of overshooting, of undershooting, and so on.


Long story short: People don't care about technology. They care about value to them.

 

[Jumpman]

The Wii was an outdated hunk of junk from day one, but by some miracle of modern man, it succeeded despite the odds.

It's called "Disruption" and "Blue Ocean Strategy" (look up Blue Ocean Strategy and The Innovator's Dilemma, by Clayton Christensen), and something called "value innovation". It's no miracle - it's proper understanding of the market, of overshooting, of undershooting, and so on.


Long story short: People don't care about technology. They care about value to them.

Don't get me wrong. I think the Wii was a ground breaking console, in regards to simplifying games, and bringing a wider audience to gaming. I played my Wii thanksgiving weekend when it was released with my whole family. I had never done that before, and probably never will again. The Wii was the right system at the right time. Nothing more, and nothing less. Nintendo has always tried to inovate, sometimes it works.(Nes, Snes,DS lite,Wii), and sometimes it doesn't(N64, Virtual boy, DS phat, sattleview, ect.) The systems that have succeeded, may not have if they where released at differant times, and the opposite can be said for the failures.


Sadly, every person I know who owned a Wii or borrowed one has gotten rid of it, or has not touched it in a long time(myself included). Now those are my facts based on about 10-20 people I know personaly. That includes hardcore, and aunts and uncles who hadn't played games in years. The Wii was a fad, and I doubt many will come back to that console 20 years from now, and talk about many of the games(which IMO defines a console, not what it can or can't do). I'm sure it will be talked about in regards to brining working motion controls into gaming(they are good, but from from great), and how it helped a wider base enjoy video games, but I believe that will be it.


The reality is that now everyone see's the Wii for what it was, a low powered machine, that doesn't offer basic things that are standards in the video games industry currently. Hell, they just introduced demo's in the last year. Demo's, come on, that is just plain basic good business to let customers sample games. I love Nintendo, and have owned every system they have ever released in the states, as well as many imports. They are a good company, but they have a one track mind when it comes to certain things, and sadly it has been there down fall in the past, and will be again.


Chris

 

[Prometheus]

^ You have it all wrong. Their problems in the past have been due to pandering to industryites. The N64 and GameCube were made to do exactly that, for example, and were their worst-selling home-consoles by far. (By the by, I'm not sure how you can say that one model of the exact same machine did not work, whilst the other did. They're identical. )


Nobody in the real world cares about its "power", content is everything. The only people who "see it for what it is" (and I use that term loosely, because the way technologistic-leaning types see it is not remotely close to the way the rest of us do ), or even care about that at all, are a very small minority.


The Wii has been a verbatim repeat of the NES - the things you said above were all said about the NES in its time, too. That it was "underpowered", that it didn't offer things that are "standard" in the "industry", that it was a "fad", that it would soon be forgotten and never talked about. All of it. Twenty years from now, the Wii will be spoken of in exactly the same way as the NES, too, in spite of the folks who are trying to re-write history and fact in order to claim otherwise right now. It will not be talked about in terms of motion controls and technology, because nobody in the real world cares about that - it will be talked about due to its games, and the fact that it is a massive social phenomenon.

 

[Jourdy288]

Quite frankly, I just want to see what they have first... Officially.

 

[Exophase]

>Engadget<


Honestly, I do not want a second Wii, I would definately prefer a Gamecube 2, or better yet - something new entirely.

Wii was a Gamecube 1.5 in internal hardware. Maybe the next one will be a Gamecube 2.25.

It's called "Disruption" and "Blue Ocean Strategy" (look up Blue Ocean Strategy and The Innovator's Dilemma, by Clayton Christensen), and something called "value innovation". It's no miracle - it's proper understanding of the market, of overshooting, of undershooting, and so on.

Long story short: People don't care about technology. They care about value to them.

The thing with Wii is that they brought new things to the table that drew attention, but now Sony and MS have replicated those additions and improved on them, while also offering much better graphics. Furthermore, Wii's price advantage has gone down substantially. Nintendo will always sell based on their enormous advantage as a first party, but a lot of the market conditions that made Wii successful have now dried up and its weaknesses are becoming more pronounced. Even old grandmas will usually prefer to play the nicer looking version of something if given the option.


Don't get me wrong, the industry winners have almost never been determined by graphics, much less CPU power, but the gaps haven't really been as big as Wii's either.

 

[ZXDunny]

I must say that I find the idea of the Wii 2 being more powerful than the PS3 or 360 to be most fanciful indeed, given Nintendo's previous strategy of using the cheapest most underpowered hardware available and then relying on solid gameplay to boost themselves into the best-seller list. And as Prometheus has already said, this news just doesn't seem to feel right at all.


D.

 

[Jumpman]

Well P., I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this subject. I must have a completely differant vision of history than you do.


NES:When this was released here in the states, the industry was all but dead, and Nintendo was the only game in town for new home console games. Yamauchi was a very smart business man, and locked up most 3rd party publishers at the time, so when the master system was released no one would or could make games for the system even if they wanted to. Many games on NES will go down in history as some of VG best.


SNES:Lost market share to the Genesis/MD due to there advertising and having more adult games(here in the US anyways), and not such a kiddy reputation. Then when the gap begin to close, Nintendo begin to allow more adult themes and what not. I belive they won in the end, but it was probably the closest margin in video game history.


N64:Miyamoto san, and others at Nintendo didn't believe CD was a viable medium at the time, and refused to use it for games. That was the N64 downfall, plain and simple. I'm sure we all know the Sony/Nintendo story, so I won't repeat that info. So once the PS1 arrived, Square and many other 3rd parties wanted to use CD's, Nintendo didn't. I don't see the N64 doing poor for any other reason than this. Sony offered what Nintendo wouldn't, and they suffered because of it. The Saturn was great in Japan, but Sega did a poor job of support in other regions.


Gamecube:Nice system that Nintendo just really couldn't win back support from Sony due to burnt bridges(it took a generation to reapir relationships). Now the Xbox is in the fray, along with the dreamcast, and market share is now divided 4 ways. Nintendo had to have there own form of disc, and that never works well when there are standards already in place(UMD, i'm looking at you).


DS Phat/Lite:The DS didn't begin to take off until the lite hit the market. The phat was very clunky, and the screen was just trash along side the newly release PSP. Both systems had good games, but once the lite came out, the tide begin to turn, and software begin to mature. So Nintendo begin to win back support from Sony, and they never looked back.


Wii:Simplified gaming for the masses. A great idea that I actually applaud, as I find gaming to be way confusing on many levels in this current day and age. It caught on. Now that getiing fit, and waving your arms around has all but died off, and Sony and Microsoft offer similar experinces at competitive prices, they are in trouble.


Nintendo has fought many industry standards, as they have their own ideas, but at the end of the day, if something works, use it. Street pass on the 3DS is a nice idea, that I personally find useless outside of Japan, and I would expect it to die over time here in the states, just like the Wii speak, and the heart rate monitor, that never saw the light of day, because it has limited use. Nintendo has had tons of great ideas over the years, but sadly they are the only ones who often support these concepts.


Most of my thoughts above are how I remember Nintendo, and how I have seen there successes and failures over the years threw my own eyes. The novelty of Wii has worn very thin, and it's price is no longer that inviting to other systems in the market. I believe this is the perfect time for Nintendo to make a move, and bring a new console that does it all, at a good price point.


Chris

 

[Nintendo]

I can't wait till E3 Expo: June 7-9, 2011, because one or two of you...not mentioning any names *cough* Prometheus *cough* are going to be eating your words.

 

[Exophase]

I must say that I find the idea of the Wii 2 being more powerful than the PS3 or 360 to be most fanciful indeed, given Nintendo's previous strategy of using the cheapest most underpowered hardware available and then relying on solid gameplay to boost themselves into the best-seller list. And as Prometheus has already said, this news just doesn't seem to feel right at all.


D.

On the other hand, they'd be competing with 5-6 year old hardware so it wouldn't be that big of a stretch. In 2012 they can release 28nm if they want to, as opposed to the 90nm XBox 360 and PS3, and Wii launched at. Sure, XBox 360 and PS3 both came down to 65nm then 45nm, and have benefited from it massively, but they still had to keep the same design specs. I guess Wii didn't need the shrink as badly and haven't bothered. But beating XBox 360/PS3 at 28nm or even 40 or 45nm is a ton easier than doing it at 90nm. They'd just have to get the GPU from somewhere, because no matter how high you clock Wii's GPU it won't be able to do the same sort of things.

 

[Nintendo]

Wow! 28nm is tiny as!

 

[vadsamoht]

N64:Miyamoto san, and others at Nintendo didn't believe CD was a viable medium at the time, and refused to use it for games. That was the N64 downfall, plain and simple. I'm sure we all know the Sony/Nintendo story, so I won't repeat that info. So once the PS1 arrived, Square and many other 3rd parties wanted to use CD's, Nintendo didn't. I don't see the N64 doing poor for any other reason than this. Sony offered what Nintendo wouldn't, and they suffered because of it. The Saturn was great in Japan, but Sega did a poor job of support in other regions.

I feel it is my duty to point out that this is wrong (though it does not effect the debate). Read here, for example. The Playstation was actually the direct result of Nintendo's intention to use CDs. Nintendo's spruiked the faster load times, etc. heavily, but unnamed sources have told the media on several occasions that it was more of a legal issue with Sony and too expensive to develop (all over again).

 

[Jumpman]

N64:Miyamoto san, and others at Nintendo didn't believe CD was a viable medium at the time, and refused to use it for games. That was the N64 downfall, plain and simple. I'm sure we all know the Sony/Nintendo story, so I won't repeat that info. So once the PS1 arrived, Square and many other 3rd parties wanted to use CD's, Nintendo didn't. I don't see the N64 doing poor for any other reason than this. Sony offered what Nintendo wouldn't, and they suffered because of it. The Saturn was great in Japan, but Sega did a poor job of support in other regions.

I feel it is my duty to point out that this is wrong (though it does not effect the debate). Read here, for example. The Playstation was actually the direct result of Nintendo's intention to use CDs. Nintendo's spruiked the faster load times, etc. heavily, but unnamed sources have told the media on several occasions that it was more of a legal issue with Sony and too expensive to develop (all over again).

Well, I guess history is open to interpretation.


http://www.slashgamer.com/2009/08/03/miyamoto-on-digital-distribution-and-why-hes-wrong/


This article lays out some of my points, as I remember them to be. I've read that it was due to the cost of working with Sony(legal mumbo jumbo), and I have also read it was due to Myamoto and others not thinking CD was fast enough to produce games like they where used to making with cartridges(Nintendos spin on it all).


Like you said, it really doesn't effect the debate. The fact that CD wasn't used, was the main reason for low sales and lack of 3rd party support. Why it wasn't used can be debated elsewhere.


Chris

 

[Prometheus]

Well P., I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this subject. I must have a completely differant vision of history than you do.

Indeed. I very much like and appreciate that we can agree to disagree without things getting childish - that's one of the many reasons I like it here.


My sincere thanks for an interesting discussion.

The novelty of Wii has worn very thin, and it's price is no longer that inviting to other systems in the market. I believe this is the perfect time for Nintendo to make a move, and bring a new console that does it all, at a good price point.

My personal thinking is that it's unlikely. However, if there really is a new machine, I am certain that it won't be the ridiculous and currently ever-changing Frankenstein (which has mysteriously changed again today after people pointed out how daft parts of it were yesterday) that's currently being dreamed up by these rumour-rags.

 

[Christoph.Krn]

If this were in any way true, I would be very highly surprised.

While I agree with your basic considerations, remember that Nintendo _loves_ to surprise their customers. It's an essential part of their business strategy.


I wouldn't be surprised at all if Nintendo announced or at least teased their new stationary gaming system as soon as next month, or maybe even this month. Furthermore, the fact that the 3DS was both released later as well as revealed earlier than Nintendo had initially planned even makes the release of a Wii successor at the end of 2011 seem feasible (as opposed to early 2012), which would mean that the loss they'd have by dropping Wii sales would be reduced, but of course that's just wild speculation.


It also sounds very plausible that Nintendo will make their next stationary gaming system much more "hardcore" (which /might/ also mean that they won't be using the "Wii" brand at all anymore) with very good graphics if you remember that they are trying to convert many of the acquired casual gamers into "real" gamers. This could be what "[...] not a gimmick like the Wii." referred to. Classic controllers with built-in screens could help with this by making the system less casual while still keeping it less scaring to casual gamers than a plain controller with many buttons would be (compared to the rather simple Wiimote), since most mainstream users have now become confident with using touchscreens (mostly due to the success of the truly finger-friendly touchscreen interface as introduced by the iPhone). Endless and non-immersive (i.e. easy to use for casual users) video chats on your controller while playing online with friends; games that allow you to make secret strategic decisions without the other local players seeing what you are doing (why hello, Mario Party); video games that can deliver a truly immersive experience on the TV because maps, menus, items and other status elements can be moved to the controller without inducing confusion; elimination of the need for a keyboard, deep and/or wide menus (all buttons can be displayed on the screen simultaneously and every menu item can be activated with a single touch); local multiplayer without splitscreen with all status elements shown on the TV? The competition wouldn't be able to do that, which is exactly what makes the idea so plausible.


Also, remember that Nintendo had already tried a similar experiment with "The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures" for the Gamecube, which required a Gameboy Advance as well as a "Nintendo GameCube Game Boy Advance Cable" for every player to be able to play the game in multiplayer mode. Reactions to the game's multiplayer mode were quite positive, aside from the fact that the experience required players to own the right hardware. You probably know that Nintendo sometimes makes this kind of uncommon experimental idea a substantial part of future hardware if they believe it fits the scheme.


PS: The "Confirmed" in the title of this thread is ridiculous.

 

[Poem58]

I read an article a couple of months ago that stated every 5 years and a few months, Nintendo announced a new system. They were wondering at that point if the cycle would hold true.Sounds like it will. Recently while reading this system was coming they said the hardware was already in the developers hands (they said this about PSP2 as well), I just wish I could remember where I read it. So I believe this is the real deal. Mainly because we just broke down and picked up a Wii a couple of months ago with income tax return. So it has to be true. It's fine though, my wife and son who wanted it are completely happy with it. Actually he wants an older DSLite and of course a 3DS, but neither are gonna happen now. I want a PSP2, and I know THAT ain't gonna happen especially after waiting so long for the Pandora, by the time it arrives the PSP2 will be too soon after for me to even suggest wanting one. Let alone ever affording it.

 

[Jourdy288]

^I considered the Wii, but knew that something bigger was coming. It was Kinect.

 

[moz]

I hope that this will at least support the GC controllers.

 

[Batou456]

With the rise of namebrand HTPCs ala Boxee Box, Apple TV, etc. and official release of the Kinetic as a open computer accessory by Asus, if Wii is in trouble from more powerful hardware so are the PS3 and XBox 360 against 28nm hardware in 2012 and 22/20nm hardware in 2013.

The Wii was an outdated hunk of junk from day one, but by some miracle of modern man, it succeeded despite the odds.

How does this not apply to all consoles ever manufactured since there was something you could legitimately call a home computer?