The case of the case.

Discussion in 'Pyra News' started by EvilDragon, Apr 14, 2014.

  1. comradekingu

    comradekingu Glowing ember

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    What happens when you go with small buttons and small spacing is you have to tip-type, and heel-toe doesnt work.

    Which is doing some buttons tip, and some buttons  with the extended bottom of the thumb joint.

    6 buttons is used by very few games where 6 buttons make more sense than 4+2, and its also not ergonomical unless you use tips of hand fingers, which the buttons end up being too small for.
     
  2. Kiga

    Kiga Active Member

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    IMO a secondary keyboard on the top right isn't a good idea. 6 aligned button like that isn't intuitive at all, I want the 4 main button to be aligned with the D-pad.

    Also the video made by ED has already shown that it's uncomfortable.

    A poll should be maked, I'm not even sure that most people prefer 6 buttons. Since the two additional button on ED's layout are apparently impracticable and that buttons and keyboard keys are the same, we should simply stay with 4 buttons and map additional buttons on the keyboard. Also the Pyra would be symmetric, I don't want the symmetry to be broken for 2 useless buttons.
     
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  3. crosspoint

    crosspoint Member

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    This!

    And we already have four shoulder buttons.
     
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  4. cuetzpalin

    cuetzpalin Member

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    That's what I think too: if you want to have 6 buttons, do it properly or don't do it at all.


    Maybe I got lost in the thread, but, shouldn't we wait for the case improvements that the case designing company were making? Or maybe ask them if they think this is possible?


    Since the molds of the pandora case are not being used, and they are producing a brand new case, I've always thought the pyra team was open to improve the case as much as possible. Meaning, being open to give or take a few mm from its dimensions, mantaining or not the same volume.


    ED already said it's not happening, and even if I "don't buy" (so to speak) some of the arguments he threw, I understand he is the one taking the risks here and thus, the final decisions. And I'm fine with that.


    I'll buy a Pyra no matter what. Even if they make it in that ugly blue ED seems to like very much :p


    Joking aside, I feel there is no point in making more hacks without the professional opinion of the case design company.
     
  5. slaeshjag

    slaeshjag ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    I like the two additional buttons in ED's design. Probably not that useful for gaming, but very useful for desktop tasks.
     
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  6. WizardStan

    WizardStan Mega GP Mania

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    I agree, except I believe that ED's layout is proper.
    edit: ninja'd by slaeshjag :ph34r:
     
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  7. cuetzpalin

    cuetzpalin Member

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    I don't know if its proper for gaming. But I agree that at least it doesn't seem to get in the way of the main 4 buttons.
     
  8. crosspoint

    crosspoint Member

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    You would be able to use 4 action buttons and 4 shoulder buttons for deskop tasks - besides a whole keyboard. I'd say if those 2 extra buttons can't serve their main purpose, i.e. gaming, in an adequate manner drop them!
     
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  9. slaeshjag

    slaeshjag ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    The entire keyboard is severely lacking keys. Especially easily accessable keys.
     
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  10. fusion_power

    fusion_power Advanced Member

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    I'm also for less but bigger, comfortable buttons. You basicly only need 6 Buttons for N64 Emulation and this can be solved with the surrounding keyboard buttons or the right Nub as C-button replacement. Works well enough on the Pandora imho, have tested this with Lylat Wars that makes excessive usage of the C-Buttons, including button combos with other buttons. 4 Shoulder Buttons are much more valuable and useful there.

    Or the other way round: you basicly don't need 6 Buttons in most of the other Emulations and Games so you always had to handly a cramped, dense and tiny button layout all tzhe time even when you don't need these buttons. ED's layout already is an compromise but at least the smaller extra buttons don't seem to interupt with the 4 main gaming buttons. So either ED's 6x layout or only 4 standard buttons like Pandora has.
     
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  11. WizardStan

    WizardStan Mega GP Mania

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    Thank you for telling me what the main purpose is. Here I was going to use it to replace my Pandora which I had been using to replace my laptop for such mundane tasks as text editing and web browsing, things for which more readily accessible insert and delete buttons would be useful. :p
     
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  12. God Ginrai

    God Ginrai Godmaster

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     I'm not sure what you mean here... There is an empty space below every button in my layout.

     Honestly, this is subjective. My hand cramps when I use the Pandora, and it doesn't take too long to reach that state.

     All that is going to do is create unfair biases. We have told you that Askarus's layout is severely flawed and doesn't prove anything about an accurate layout.

    That is exactly why we can't stand ED's layout. We specifically pushed for 6 buttons for gaming purposes. I don't have anything against it being useful for desktop tasks, but the reason we wanted those buttons in the first place was for gaming, so it should work for gaming.

    -God Ginrai
     
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  13. comradekingu

    comradekingu Glowing ember

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    If your hands cramp up when using the pandora i think you might have lack of magnesium. I think everyone can see why the current 6button cluster isnt optimal, but still make valid judgements with that in mind. Which is a lot more real than a desire to replicate something without trying it.

    The most important part is moving the 4 button cluster, not that its not symmetrical anymore. If people take kindly to that there is hope of it working out with better alignment, if not then its unfeasible. 4 buttons is the core, and thats what the bulk of buyers will be judging it based upon.
     
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  14. God Ginrai

    God Ginrai Godmaster

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    Hrmmm... What kind of foods should I be eating to get replenish that?

     This is why I am asking for Askarus to make a version that uses the correct distances.

    While I do not completely agree with this, I do recognize there are many who feel this way. This is why I have specifically always suggested layouts that had the 4-button cross in them rather than a layout that mimicked the Sega Saturn layout perfectly. (minus the different sized buttons)

    -God Ginrai
     
  15. Natsu

    Natsu Advanced Member

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    I agree. While I'm not saying it shouldn't be, I think most people would only think and/or see a Sega-like layout rather than this main four buttons.

    [​IMG]

    Basically, I tried to make the other side more cross like while distancing the other buttons.
     
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  16. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    Nope, it won't be biased if we let people check it here - because we tell them that the button layout is not perfect.

    But not a single one today could even imagine that fitting six buttons within the given space is even possible in a comfortable way.
     
  17. God Ginrai

    God Ginrai Godmaster

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    You tell them it's not perfect and then in the same breath you say that it's close enough to tell it won't work. That's exactly what you did in this topic, and I have a hard time believing you aren't doing the same thing at that conference you guys are at.

    -God Ginrai
     
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  18. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    Nope, I don't. I tell them that we're evaluating a six-button design and mention it's a manually made hack and therefore not perfect and ask them their opionion.

    Seriously, unless you can proof me that the layout works, I consider the case closed.

    Whatever we try to evaluate whether it does work or not is just being turned down by you.

    If you're seriously interested, create that mod yourself (I can send you all the Pandora cases you want), mod it, send it to me and prove it will work.

    We tried and all came to the conclusion it doesn't work, so if you seriously want it, don't waste your energy here but instead find a way to prove us with some physical dummy.
     
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  19. _jr_

    _jr_ Advanced Member

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    Thanks to ED and Askarus for making these tests. I'm happy that it seems like only ED's layout is feasible, because I'm pretty sure it would fit my usage pattern (shell, editor, etc.) much better than the other proposals. I think it would be perfect for me to map (keypad) Enter and Tab to the new buttons.
     
  20. Natsu

    Natsu Advanced Member

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    Sorry, but we all didn't come to the same conclusion. In fact, we see GG recent layout as feasible.

    Space is almost, if not, the same distance as the 3DS. Except you have two diamonds instead of one. 

    Also, their opinions may have be shifted by the presented layout into thinking that it can't be done rather actually thinking

    it can't be done. If that makes sense. :lol:
     
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