Umm... you did notice that the current discussion was to add a few mm to the width of the case to easily add more buttons...?
If you change the width of the case, you need to change the PCB as well.
I totally understand not wanting to increase the width of the device. However, that is not a good reason to deny changing the layout at all. As has been mentioned by many people, and then proven through my mockups, it is possible to do a viable 6-button layout either by moving the nubs inward (thus not increasing the width of the device) or by decreasing the size of the buttons. In fact, there should be a happy medium that is between the "extra" button size and the main button size that would work for all 6 buttons.
A mockup is no proof.
A proof is something you can hold physically in your hands and test it.
Not just printed on a piece of paper, but test it for real, as it can feel very different when actuall used for gaming.
The gaming controls of the Pandora are perfect, and that's what we'll almost keep 1:1.
Except they are not. That's why you were adding extra shoulder buttons. Because
you, as a PSX gamer, wanted a more PSX-friendly layout.
Nope. I don't care about four shoulder buttons, I don't even like shoulder buttons at all (they're a bit uncomfortable for me).
I mostly play SNES, Amiga, C64 and Genesis games on the Pandora.
And PSX RPGs.
There's not a single game that comes to my mind where I would need four shoulder buttons.
Sorry to bust your bubble, but I didn't do it for personal preference.
The reason I changed to four shoulder buttons was because it was a community request that existed before we even started Pyra development, so it didn't add any design time or costs.
Askarus showed with his Pandora mod with a real working unit (not a mockup) that it's possible to have four shoulder buttons without any negative effects.
It does not change the playability of any current emulator or game, it just ADDS something.
So it was a no-brainer to add them.
And we are merely asking that you do the same for us with the 6-button layout. I have even made sure to include the cross-design in the layouts I have suggested, so as not to cause problems for those who are used to it who grew up w/ a SNES or PSX.
This is totally different to the shoulder buttons.
You can't tell for sure the additional buttons don't get in the way or confuse gamers unless you actually TRY them.
And that's the difference with the L/R buttons. I could test them and know they won't get in your way.
4-button controllers are standard.
Almost every standard video game console uses 4 buttons, sometimes with some additional small buttons (like black and white on the XBox).
Only some arcade games and the Sega Saturn have six-button controllers (or are there more I don't know of?)
The Genesis / MegaDrive got a six button controller later, but very few games except for fighting games actually made use of it.
Most games use the standard 3-button setup.
Have you ever seen a thread here where many users complain that Picodrive is no fun because the Pandora only has four buttons?
So lets compare:
4 Shoulder buttons:
* Request was made multiple times before the design stage
* Modification exists that proofs it can be done and has no negative impacts
* Useful also as modifier keys, not only for gaming
6-Buttons:
* Request was made when the case / PCB design was almost finished (changing causes delays and adds costs)
* No way to easily test any possible impacts in usability exists
* Not really useful outside of gaming, and only a couple of games really need 6 buttons (so it doesn't add much).
See the difference here and why I easily chose 4 shoulder buttons but am very careful with 6 face buttons?
You are welcome to modify a Pandora and hack a working 6-button control together and send it to me to show it works without any downsides though.
That's also why I'm pretty careful about changing the action button layout and did add two small buttons at a place where they don't get in the way, without changing the main buttons.
That's exactly what's causing this problem. You are not trying to accomodate a 6-button layout at all. Adding those 2 buttons where you did leaves us in just as bad of a situation as we were when we were having to use the O and P buttons for N64 emulation. It sucked.
That's your personal opinion, but I didn't see much backup for that claim from a lot of users from the community, except for a few ones.
If you really think almost every user wants this, we can do poll.
For N64 emulating: I never had many issues with non-N64 controllers on emulation, what games are there that need all the buttons to be playable?
You have two more shoulder buttons now, so you could map certain functions there as well.
You used O and P for them too? I think we're even worse off now, because O and P aren't as accessible as they were on the Pandora, now using them is quite a twist.
Ummm...while they're not O and P (but part of the number row), they're in the exact same distance from the buttons as they were before...?
I don't know of a large enough specific use for the two new buttons as and where they are now. They'll be a lot harder to use for N64 games than O and P were, but I think that requests for six buttons for that purpose are the only reason they were added.
Well, I think I'd use them for start and select when emulating games.
Some games like Super Mario World actively use the Select button for game-playing (not only menu navigation), and the middle position is a bit hard to use.
Also, I'd use them for N64 games and map functions you don't need that often in a game (like camera switching or showing a map, e.g.)
So I think they are useful, but I know 100% they don't change the usability of the four main facebuttons.
I respect the difficulty posed by changing things again, having people make new models and possibly even having to wait another month before receiving the device we'll probably keep all our lives, but more than feeling lowly to back away from any more proposals, I kind of want to question ED choosing this new nothing else layout in the first place, and setting everything in place before telling us. I'm trying not to sound like I believe I'm entitled to anything, but to point out that of course we were going to complain about the button change which was made in order to please us not being of any help. The only things in its favor I've heard of are it already being implemented and it not getting in the way. Having a sad, a confused circular one.
I always followed Pandora discussions and improvement ideas.
I never saw a single thread about six buttons, but multiple requests for four shoulder buttons.
And still I don't see many community members supporting it, except a couple.
The Pyra was revealed February 1st. When did the 6-button layout discussion start?
