The case of the case.

[God Ginrai]

(and I don't care much for your GP2X argument, since those buttons are much larger in size, larger than Pandora's even)

If you own both devices, I'd advise you go back and take a look at them again. The GP2X buttons are about the same size as the Pandora buttons, give or take ~1mm in diameter. That's close enough to be considered "the same", certainly not "much larger".

-God Ginrai

 

[ssokolow]

As I said, as long as we ALT is on the shoulder button it's fine.

*blinks* *goes back to reread your original post on the subject*


Ahh... I misread that at the time, and even on the reread it took me a moment before I could parse that sentence in the way you intended. I thought you were saying you didn't want Alt on the shoulder buttons, and I couldn't really understand why you were so apparently opposed to it.


- Neelix

My problem with Alt and AltGr on the shoulder buttons is that not every game does recognize them as buttons by default.

For example I can't use the "Start" button in Jedi Knight (Don't know if I remember right).

At least "Super Smash Flash2" (Flash Game) for sure does not allow the "Start" button to be used. I have to use some number Key.

For typing it's fore sure far superior to have every Modifier on the shoulder buttons.

And as long as the Modifier buttons can be changed to any other button press so that a Game does recognize them it will work well.

That was the only thing I was concerned about at first.

This sort of problem can be solved by making a better port of the game -- either by changing its keybindings, or by using some script that temporarily remaps the shoulder buttons. As long as all keys are implemented in software (not like Pandora's Fn key), there is not really problem.

...and, as long as the game uses X11 for keyboard input rather than talking straight to evdev (quite likely given that evdev device nodes for keyboards have very restricted permissions by default to avoid password snooping), it would take some insanely stupid OS-level coding (stuff like needlessly writing an inferior re-invention of the X11 keycode-to-keysym translation layer) to make it difficult to remap shoulder buttons that act as modifier keys by default.

 

[DrHAX]

And I'm sure I'm not the only one

I suspect that I'm the only person who actually likes the Pandora's shape.

I do too Granted I love the DMG GB.. so I'm partial to bricks. I want a brick house with a brick road... o_o

Sent from my Z665C using Tapatalk

 

[ssokolow]

And I'm sure I'm not the only one

I suspect that I'm the only person who actually likes the Pandora's shape.

I do too Granted I love the DMG GB.. so I'm partial to bricks. I want a brick house with a brick road... o_o

Sent from my Z665C using Tapatalk

I'm not a big fan of the DMG gameboy but I definitely like the Pandora's shape as-is.

(I had a Sega Gamegear (which I seem to have lost) and then switched the Gameboy Color, GBA, NDS, and then Pandora (both of which I still have) so the GBC is sort of my nostalgia gold standard for the portrait form factor.)

Well... now that I think about it, the Pandora's too rounded in certain spots. I grew up on IBM Thinkpads and the convex keyboard buttons and shallow curve on the back of the lid make it feel like something that wanted to ape the Thinkpad aesthetic but fell short because it was designed by lowest-bidder Chinese companies.

(I'm hoping the intended flat-key Pyra keymat will fix the former and that final lid design will end up fixing the latter by taking inspiration from the DS Lite.)

 

[God Ginrai]

I've been busy, so I haven't had time to come up with a poll about the 6-button layout yet. However, I figured I'd go ahead and put up these 2 mid-sized button versions I put together:

1) Larger than my small example





This would be just over 1mm smaller in diameter than the Pandora buttons.

2) Slightly larger than (1)





This would be just under 1mm smaller in diameter than the Pandora buttons.

As is illustrated by each second image, both options do not conflict with the nub's under-disc.

I will try to make a poll for the different 6-button options by the end of this week. I'm on-call tho', so I'll see when I have time to make it.

-God Ginrai

 

[Askarus]

There's hope for you.

I do make some hack like I did with my shoulder buttons for the 6 Button layout.

Then EvilDragon can test it and we can see if it's well usable.

As buttons I'll use Nintendo DS Light buttons and Keymat. Thea are slightly smaller than Pandora Buttons but still usable.

Smaller would be no good I think.

I have to wait until the Parts arrive and finish everything on Friday.

I'm not sure if it will work but don't see a reason why not.

If you have to make a poll please wait until we did test.

If both solutions do work then you may have your poll.

 

[Saber]

There's hope for you.

I do make some hack like I did with my shoulder buttons for the 6 Button layout.

Then EvilDragon can test it and we can see if it's well usable.

As buttons I'll use Nintendo DS Light buttons and Keymat. Thea are slightly smaller than Pandora Buttons but still usable.

Smaller would be no good I think.

I have to wait until the Parts arrive and finish everything on Friday.

I'm not sure if it will work but don't see a reason why not.

If you have to make a poll please wait until we did test.

If both solutions do work then you may have your poll.

Askarus, could you also mod the Select and Start buttons so they are side by side too?

P.S. God Ginrai, your first example looks the most promising.

 

[Askarus]

There's hope for you.

I do make some hack like I did with my shoulder buttons for the 6 Button layout.

Then EvilDragon can test it and we can see if it's well usable.

As buttons I'll use Nintendo DS Light buttons and Keymat. Thea are slightly smaller than Pandora Buttons but still usable.

Smaller would be no good I think.

I have to wait until the Parts arrive and finish everything on Friday.

I'm not sure if it will work but don't see a reason why not.

If you have to make a poll please wait until we did test.

If both solutions do work then you may have your poll.

Askarus, could you also mod the Select and Start buttons so they are side by side too?

In theory it's a lot more simple to do than the Action buttons.

Practically I don't want this to happen.

I do dislike that idea a lot.

How do you want the buttons?

Rotate them 90° so they fit well next t each other?

 

[Saber]

There's hope for you.

I do make some hack like I did with my shoulder buttons for the 6 Button layout.

Then EvilDragon can test it and we can see if it's well usable.

As buttons I'll use Nintendo DS Light buttons and Keymat. Thea are slightly smaller than Pandora Buttons but still usable.

Smaller would be no good I think.

I have to wait until the Parts arrive and finish everything on Friday.

I'm not sure if it will work but don't see a reason why not.

If you have to make a poll please wait until we did test.

If both solutions do work then you may have your poll.

Askarus, could you also mod the Select and Start buttons so they are side by side too?

In theory it's a lot more simple to do than the Action buttons.

Practically I don't want this to happen.

I do dislike that idea a lot.

How do you want the buttons?

Rotate them 90° so they fit well next t each other?

I'd like Select and Start, as thin as they are, to be positioned more like the T and Y keys on the Pandora.

To solve both our problems with these keys I'm curious if ED could make the three center keys each about 1/3 longer. It would make them easier to reach and to push. We do have the physical room to do this modification afterall.

 

[Grench]

Sorry, but I still like ED & team's solution of adding the 2 extra buttons on the left.

The 2 rows of 3 change would require case & motherboard & keymat changes. I would much rather that the project stay on course with what they've got - which is damn good and highly innovative.

 

[Natsu]

Oh, stop being a Grinch.

 

[Yoyobuae]

Is there any explanation of the electrical specifications of Pyra or Pandora's buttons. From what I understand there's a conductive part on the keymat which presses on the pads on the PCB and closes a circuit (which is then detected as button press). In other words, the standard way buttons work on on controllers.

I was thinking that custom button layouts could be achieved by removing the button caps and then placing a custom made part with the new button layout on top. This new part could snap into the button holes (to hold it in place).

Problems would be achieving a low enough profile to avoid the LCD when the clamshell is closed and connecting back to the PCB so that button presses get detected.

 

[cuetzpalin]

There's hope for you.


I do make some hack like I did with my shoulder buttons for the 6 Button layout.


Then EvilDragon can test it and we can see if it's well usable.

You, sir, are amazing.

 

[God Ginrai]

There's hope for you.

I do make some hack like I did with my shoulder buttons for the 6 Button layout.

Then EvilDragon can test it and we can see if it's well usable.

As buttons I'll use Nintendo DS Light buttons and Keymat. Thea are slightly smaller than Pandora Buttons but still usable.

Smaller would be no good I think.

I have to wait until the Parts arrive and finish everything on Friday.

I'm not sure if it will work but don't see a reason why not.

If you have to make a poll please wait until we did test.

If both solutions do work then you may have your poll.

 Honestly, I really thank you. This means a lot to me.

I'll wait on the poll until you are finished. If you have any questions at all about the layout while doing your mod, (or problems) feel free to contact me via PM. I'll do whatever I can to help.

If this helps to convince EvilDragon, remind me to buy you a beer somehow.

Askarus, could you also mod the Select and Start buttons so they are side by side too?

 In theory it's a lot more simple to do than the Action buttons.

Practically I don't want this to happen.

I do dislike that idea a lot.

How do you want the buttons?

Rotate them 90° so they fit well next t each other?

 Now that you mention rotating the buttons, I think that Saber's idea would be more feasible if they were rotated at a 45deg angle similar to the start and select on the SNES. I'm not so sure how fond of the side-by-side start and select buttons idea I am, however, that would probably be the best way to save space and still implement Saber's idea.

The 2 rows of 3 change would require case & motherboard & keymat changes.

The keymat hasn't been finished yet, so changes to that don't matter. EvilDragon has stated case changes are not a problem and has indicated that there are parts of the case design still in flux. Motherboard changes are also not as bad of a problem as they would be for another device, considering that the peripheral board is the one that would have to change, which is a lot simpler of a board to change thanks to the SoC having a daughter board.

-God Ginrai

 

[Natsu]

Make sure it's a fav to least poll rather than a simple which one do you prefer poll.

 

[God Ginrai]

Make sure it's a fav to least poll rather than a simple which one do you prefer poll.

It's going to have multiple questions, most likely.

-God Ginrai

 

[Askarus]

There's hope for you.


I do make some hack like I did with my shoulder buttons for the 6 Button layout.


Then EvilDragon can test it and we can see if it's well usable.


As buttons I'll use Nintendo DS Light buttons and Keymat. Thea are slightly smaller than Pandora Buttons but still usable.


Smaller would be no good I think.


I have to wait until the Parts arrive and finish everything on Friday.


I'm not sure if it will work but don't see a reason why not.


If you have to make a poll please wait until we did test.


If both solutions do work then you may have your poll.

 
Honestly, I really thank you. This means a lot to me.


I'll wait on the poll until you are finished. If you have any questions at all about the layout while doing your mod, (or problems) feel free to contact me via PM. I'll do whatever I can to help.


If this helps to convince EvilDragon, remind me to buy you a beer somehow.

I don't want to convince ED .

Personally I don't mind the original Layout.

All I want is some fun with cutting Pandora housings and if your suggestion is superior I don't want to miss the chance to test it.

Combining Sega and Nintendo Layout both nice usable would be good.

Also your Layout might be pretty good for N64.

Same for the Start and Select button.

I do prefer the old solution but don't want to miss the chance to test your suggestions.

 

[levi]

For my own benefit, could someone explain how the Sega layout is good for N64? On the N64, like on all Nintendo consoles the A and B buttons are laid out like the B and X buttons, and additionally it has the C button diamond. If you take away two buttons in that layout from a Sega layout, you're left with a 'tetris L' shape, not a diamond.


Is the idea that the tetris L would be mapped on to the N64 diamond, or the idea that we use say Y and B as the N64 A and B buttons leaving a perfect diamond for the C buttons? Neither solution sounds ideal to me, and if the keyboard is any good I think I'd prefer using for the buttons that don't fit, or the extra shoulder buttons.

 

[Saber]

There's hope for you.


I do make some hack like I did with my shoulder buttons for the 6 Button layout.


Then EvilDragon can test it and we can see if it's well usable.


As buttons I'll use Nintendo DS Light buttons and Keymat. Thea are slightly smaller than Pandora Buttons but still usable.


Smaller would be no good I think.


I have to wait until the Parts arrive and finish everything on Friday.


I'm not sure if it will work but don't see a reason why not.


If you have to make a poll please wait until we did test.


If both solutions do work then you may have your poll.

 
Honestly, I really thank you. This means a lot to me.


I'll wait on the poll until you are finished. If you have any questions at all about the layout while doing your mod, (or problems) feel free to contact me via PM. I'll do whatever I can to help.


If this helps to convince EvilDragon, remind me to buy you a beer somehow.

I don't want to convince ED .

Personally I don't mind the original Layout.

All I want is some fun with cutting Pandora housings and if your suggestion is superior I don't want to miss the chance to test it.

Combining Sega and Nintendo Layout both nice usable would be good.

Also your Layout might be pretty good for N64.

Same for the Start and Select button.

I do prefer the old solution but don't want to miss the chance to test your suggestions.

Start and Select horizontally at either 45° or 90° if you want sounds good.

 

[Askarus]

For my own benefit, could someone explain how the Sega layout is good for N64? On the N64, like on all Nintendo consoles the A and B buttons are laid out like the B and X buttons, and additionally it has the C button diamond. If you take away two buttons in that layout from a Sega layout, you're left with a 'tetris L' shape, not a diamond.


Is the idea that the tetris L would be mapped on to the N64 diamond, or the idea that we use say Y and B as the N64 A and B buttons leaving a perfect diamond for the C buttons? Neither solution sounds ideal to me, and if the keyboard is any good I think I'd prefer using for the buttons that don't fit, or the extra shoulder buttons.

Take a close look at the N64 controller.

The C-Buttons are like the Pandora action buttons.

The A and B button are nearly at the same angle as the C left and C down.

Now move the A and B buttons a little closer to the C-Buttons you'll get a 6 button layout.

A 6 button layout is pretty close to the N64 C-button cross + 2 Buttons