The case of the case.

[levi]

I tend to agree with Shenmue on this one.  The Psion S5 is wider than the Pandora, but the front corner of the keyboard is much slimmer (especially when slid out by the lid).  That enables you to use more of your thumb to reach in to the center and even across the keyboard.  I suspect a design like Fusion_Power's with the angled edges might achieve a similar result, making it easier to launch more of your thumb over the keyboard without feeling lose losing hold.  But of course, there's no way to find out without prototyping.  Who's got sellotape, cardboard, blu-tack and a youtube account?

 

[cuetzpalin]

15,000€ for design changes and 3D printing?

Somebody is scamming you.

 

[_wb_]

I've never carried my pandora in my pocket anyway, it would be very uncomfortable.

You consider the Pandora too large for your pocket already, and yet you are pushing to make it even larger?

Some of us do carry our Pandora in our pockets. It's reasonably comfortable, but obviously smaller would be more comfortable. Larger is not an option, unless you don't care about pocketability (like you), but then why don't you just get a netbook?

 

[TrashyMG]

I tend to agree with Shenmue on this one. The Psion S5 is wider than the Pandora, but the front corner of the keyboard is much slimmer (especially when slid out by the lid). That enables you to use more of your thumb to reach in to the center and even across the keyboard. I suspect a design like Fusion_Power's with the angled edges might achieve a similar result, making it easier to launch more of your thumb over the keyboard without feeling lose losing hold. But of course, there's no way to find out without prototyping. Who's got sellotape, cardboard, blu-tack and a youtube account?

The Psion S5 also seems like a device meant to be used on a table versus thumb typing. Also the Psion S5 doesn't have game controls that often you would need to move your thumbs quickly from the game controls to the keyboard. The Pandora does a good job at minimizing the need to change your grip when you need to hit a keyboard key.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

 Who's got sellotape, cardboard, blu-tack and a youtube account?

You do

 

[edgex004]

But can you do so without relaxing your grip?

This happens to any device not just the Pandora. I have to change the way I hold the iPhone when typing letters closed to the bottom corners too...(yes I 2-thumb-type on my iphone )

That is interesting. With my phone, Pandora, and most other controllers I can use a single grip to type or play games depending on my current use. The only time I really have to shift my grip on the Pandora is when I want to reach a key combo beyond the middle of the keyboard or if I'm switching between playing games and typing. I'll have to keep a closer eye on when and why this does ever occur for me.

 

[Grench]

If your Pandora (Pyra) is digging into your palms OR you can't reach the keys with your thumbs OR you're getting hand cramps while using the device, then you're holding it wrong.

1. Get a wrist strap off of a $5 flashlight, or a game controller, or make one out of braided nylon line. Loop it over your off-hand or wrist.

2. Release the 'death grip' a bit. You no longer have to worry nearly as much about it slipping.

3. Hold the Pandora (Pyra) cradled on the 2nd joints of your middle, ring and little fingers with your index fingers on the buttons and your thumbs on the nubs.

Relax and enjoy the device.

 

[EvilDragon]

15,000€ for design changes and 3D printing?


Somebody is scamming you.

Nope. But include the monthly costs for the additional time that takes, etc. And you easily have that amount with a few different design tests.


We're no hobbyists tinkering with some design in the spare time.

 

[cuetzpalin]

You consider the Pandora too large for your pocket already, and yet you are pushing to make it even larger?


Some of us do carry our Pandora in our pockets. It's reasonably comfortable, but obviously smaller would be more comfortable. Larger is not an option, unless you don't care about pocketability (like you), but then why don't you just get a netbook?

You're not getting the point at all.


And rethoric questions does not make good arguments.


I could ask you in return: if you're so worried about pocketability, why don't you get a smartphone? But that would be silly.


I don't want to make it larger, I want to make it better. Cramming more things in small spaces is opposite to that.


How comfortable it fits in a pocket is totally subjective, depends on the kind of clothes you wear, for starters.


Are you telling me 5mm - 10mm are going to rip your pockets? I feel that size increase would solve problems with the buttons, while still being very reasonable.


A good thing to know here is how much space is needed to have a proper 6 button layout. If it's over 10mm then I would agree is not the way to go.

 

[Exophase]

Larger is not an option, unless you don't care about pocketability (like you), but then why don't you just get a netbook?

You can't hold on a netbook in your hands and play games on it using gaming controls. Using a separate gamepad with something on your lap isn't really comparable. To some people this has a bigger impact than simply having to carry it in something that isn't a pants pocket, which might always be a deal breaker on its own.

Honestly I find it really annoying when people say "why not just get an X" because they don't care about one particular thing. This device has a lot of different possible appeals and benefits.

Personally I've never found PSP or Pandora to be very pocketable. I could probably manage it but it'd mean at the very least having nothing else in that pocket.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

I've never carried my pandora in my pocket anyway, it would be very uncomfortable.

You consider the Pandora too large for your pocket already, and yet you are pushing to make it even larger?

Some of us do carry our Pandora in our pockets. It's reasonably comfortable, but obviously smaller would be more comfortable. Larger is not an option, unless you don't care about pocketability (like you), but then why don't you just get a netbook?

My pants don't have pockets or I have pocketless pants.

Joking aside, really, I can fit the 3DS XL inside of my jacket pocket with no issue.

 

[Natsu]

I don't think the size increase people are talking about doesn't have to be size of the XL. Not that I would mind that size.
Would solve a lot of room problems for other features as well. i.e leds in front.

 

[_wb_]

Larger is not an option, unless you don't care about pocketability (like you), but then why don't you just get a netbook?

You can't hold on a netbook in your hands and play games on it using gaming controls. Using a separate gamepad with something on your lap isn't really comparable. To some people this has a bigger impact than simply having to carry it in something that isn't a pants pocket, which might always be a deal breaker on its own.


Honestly I find it really annoying when people say "why not just get an X" because they don't care about one particular thing. This device has a lot of different possible appeals and benefits.


Personally I've never found PSP or Pandora to be very pocketable. I could probably manage it but it'd mean at the very least having nothing else in that pocket.

OK, I shouldn't have said "why don't you just get a netbook" because indeed there are other advantages of the Pandora/Pyra -- it is unique in many ways simultaneously, so even if you take away one of its killer features, it's still unique. But pocketability is still an important feature to me, roughly as important as battery life and having a keyboard.

Adding a full 10mm of width just to marginally improve the positioning of the 9th and 10th gaming button (while making the reachability of the middle keys obviously worse) is a very bad trade-off to me. And I think it's a bad defense of that poor trade-off to say "it's not pocketable anyway, so I don't care about that". Evidently lots of people do consider the Pandora to be pocketable, but it's also clearly on the border since there are also several people who don't consider it to be pocketable. Every millimeter you add, will tip that balance towards the non-pocketable side.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

Bottomline is Ed has made the decision that the size of the Pyra is not gonna get bigger than what he showed us in the first post.  So arguing about size now is worthless, I think.

 

[fusion_power]

We're no hobbyists tinkering with some design in the spare time.

No, but we are. Community Power 'n stuff. And if you have good professional designers, then they usualy have good results in short time, it's their job. Time is money, they know that. I just have the feeling you want to stay with that exact bricky Pandora design without changng much, which would be the wrong way imho. It's ok for a first start but no way I want a Pyra that will look exaclty like that current prototype case. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

[WizardStan]

And I'm sure I'm not the only one

I suspect that I'm the only person who actually likes the Pandora's shape.

 

[TrashyMG]

I suspect that I'm the only person who actually likes the Pandora's shape.

Nope, I like it too.

 

[Binky]

stay with that exact bricky Pandora design without changng much, which would be the wrong way imho. It's ok for a first start but no way I want a Pyra that will look exaclty like that current prototype case. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Absolutely agree here - But I recall ED saying that the designers were going to play around with the case shape once the PCB  chap(s) had a case to work with.

There are certainly elements that could be improved - although the overall concept is great.

 

[cuetzpalin]

I wonder if, seriously, people thinks those 5th and 6th buttons crammed there are a good solution they can feel proud of.

I feel that just because those two buttons are not gonna be used very often for many, most people here are neglecting a decent design.

If we are going to have 6 buttons, let's do it right; otherwise I'd prefer to stick to the 4 buttons.

 

[Natsu]

I rather have the Pyra be rounded.

I wonder if, seriously, people thinks those 5th and 6th buttons crammed there are a good solution they can feel proud of.

I feel that just because those two buttons are not gonna be used very often for many, most people here are neglecting a decent design.

If we are going to have 6 buttons, let's do it right; otherwise I'd prefer to stick to the 4 buttons.

I prefer 6 buttons no matter what.