The case of the case.

[rygD]

I prefer the little button version by GG if the buttons aren't tiny.

I am having trouble with quotes:

"I don't know what that controller looks like, so I can't comment too much on it. Although I will say that I can't stand buttons w/ a large convex curve to them. Even The Pandora buttons felt a bit too curved on the top for my tastes. However, in the case of the Pandora, this might instead be because of the plastic or the keymat. The Pandora buttons feel very hard when I press on them.

On a somewhat related tangent. The NES controller always felt very bad to me because the A and B buttons were right next to each other, instead of angled."

I also find the Pandora buttons to be a bit too domed, but not as bad as others I have used. I prefer a concave button. Some that are slightly convex are ok.

I do like the NES controller, since I grew up with it, but I agree it is flawed with horizontal button placement. They did a lot better with most of the later controllers. Even the Game Boy moved to diagonal button placement, and I am pretty sure it wasn't just to keep it narrow.

Edit: BabyPanda really seems to have let me down...I tried to clean this up.

 

[rygD]

I had another quick thought about small buttons.  There are some handhelds that I remember thinking had buttons that were too small.  I think the GBA SP is one.  Maybe some version of the DS as well.

If I had a choice, I would prefer wider buttons and the GG layout.  If something comfortable and usable like that isn't possible then it might be best to have the 2 new buttons smaller.  ED's layout will work, but is not ideal for some games, as has been stated many times before, and it will be difficult to remap buttons to work better with that layout, but at least all the buttons are there.

 

[LoopStar]

Maybe the best thing to  do now is to make physical dummies of the Pyra: one with the original layout and one with the sega-style layout, maybe even a third one with a sega style layout and smaller buttons. ED could take those to the next exhibitions/fairs he's at along with a survey and ask visitors of his booth to check them out and vote how ergonomical they feel. This way he'd also get some input by people who not biased by the whole discussion on the boards.

I know this would cause a major delay, but since we all want the Pyra to be as good as possible it would be worth it imho.

 

[EvilDragon]

Maybe the best thing to  do now is to make physical dummies of the Pyra: one with the original layout and one with the sega-style layout, maybe even a third one with a sega style layout and smaller buttons. ED could take those to the next exhibitions/fairs he's at along with a survey and ask visitors of his booth to check them out and vote how ergonomical they feel. This way he'd also get some input by people who not biased by the whole discussion on the boards.

I know this would cause a major delay, but since we all want the Pyra to be as good as possible it would be worth it imho.

The issue is not the delay.

Unlike a case, you can't print a keymat - so that would be costs of 5000 EUR just to test a different keymat.

 

[LoopStar]

Maybe the best thing to  do now is to make physical dummies of the Pyra: one with the original layout and one with the sega-style layout, maybe even a third one with a sega style layout and smaller buttons. ED could take those to the next exhibitions/fairs he's at along with a survey and ask visitors of his booth to check them out and vote how ergonomical they feel. This way he'd also get some input by people who not biased by the whole discussion on the boards.

I know this would cause a major delay, but since we all want the Pyra to be as good as possible it would be worth it imho.

The issue is not the delay.

Unlike a case, you can't print a keymat - so that would be costs of 5000 EUR just to test a different keymat.

Since the issue seems to be more about the position of the buttons (and how easy they are to reach in a given layout) and not about the action of the buttons themselves (how hard they are to press), I think 3d-printing only the cases with dummy keys & buttons would be sufficient. My suggestion was not about making actually working prototypes.

 

[EvilDragon]

Since the issue seems to be more about the position of the buttons (and how easy they are to reach in a given layout) and not about the action of the buttons themselves (how hard they are to press), I think 3d-printing only the cases with dummy keys & buttons would be sufficient. My suggestion was not about making actually working prototypes.

Well, still I would need to pay the designer and the new print, so that would be 800 EUR alone.

And without a keymat, it's hard to tell - it would be similar to just print them on paper and test... you can't really do a proper test there.

 

[LoopStar]

Well, still I would need to pay the designer and the new print, so that would be 800 EUR alone.
And without a keymat, it's hard to tell - it would be similar to just print them on paper and test... you can't really do a proper test there.

Sorry, I didn't realize that the financial planning on the Pyra was _this_ tight. So it seems things are settled, then.

 

[Binky]

Anyone with glue, scissors and an old shoebox can make a pyra mockup to test button positions....

 

[EvilDragon]

Well, still I would need to pay the designer and the new print, so that would be 800 EUR alone.
And without a keymat, it's hard to tell - it would be similar to just print them on paper and test... you can't really do a proper test there.

Sorry, I didn't realize that the financial planning on the Pyra was _this_ tight. So it seems things are settled, then.

It isn't that tight, but I'm trying to save as much as possible

Better be safe than sorry!

 

[fusion_power]

The issue is not the delay.

Unlike a case, you can't print a keymat - so that would be costs of 5000 EUR just to test a different keymat.

Of course you can print a (prototype) rubber-Keymat. For much less than 5000€ you can buy an entire printer that can do that. You just need an Stereolithography Printer instead of an FDM Printer. I'm sure you don't even need to buy one, Companies can print this stuff for you and I'm sure it's still cheaper than making complete molds for the keymats.

http://www.stratasys.com/materials/polyjet/rubber-like

It's cool to live in the Future already.

 

[EvilDragon]

Oh, didn't know that - thanks a lot

Will help a lot testing that

 

[fusion_power]

No problem, I also had to leran about 3D printing first, so many new technologies and possibilities. Observing Kickstarter campaigns is very educational sometimes. Today, you even can 3D print with some kind of wood like material if you want. ^^

 

[God Ginrai]

Oh, didn't know that - thanks a lot

Will help a lot testing that

So, this should make it possible for you to test didfferent layouts, then. I can try to come up with a version or my layout that has a button-size between the two layouts I've suggested if people think this would be a good idea.

-God Ginrai

 

[klapse]

I like EDs layout. No need for alternatives IMO.

 

[LoopStar]

Oh, didn't know that - thanks a lot


Will help a lot testing that

So, this should make it possible for you to test didfferent layouts, then. I can try to come up with a version or my layout that has a button-size between the two layouts I've suggested if people think this would be a good idea.

-God Ginrai

*thumb up*

 

[Tenka]

Oh, didn't know that - thanks a lot


Will help a lot testing that

So, this should make it possible for you to test didfferent layouts, then. I can try to come up with a version or my layout that has a button-size between the two layouts I've suggested if people think this would be a good idea.

-God Ginrai

Please do do that God Ginrai, and please do test this (and then implement it should it be possible) EvilDragon.  I'm kinda passionate about getting to have this.  Everyone, drink something nice and roll around.

 

[Natsu]

 

[bzar]

^ So crowded

 

[Tenka]

Natsu yours isn't as pretty and wouldn't feel as comfortable and isn't any easier than God Ginrai's layout.  I don't think you actually want it any more than the other, and are just trying to give more possibilities than the one, but if this comes down to a poll and your version is included then our votes are going to be chopped in half between the two possibilities, killing us.  The leftmost buttons are always the primary and most used buttons, they can not be the smallest buttons.

 

[cuetzpalin]

If we are going to have 6 buttons, we should have a close to perfection 6 button layout. Just to keep up to the Pyra's spirit of a portable device done right.

As they are now, they look forced in that small space.

Even if the device gets a bit larger, if we end up with a perfect button layout I think most people would be happier.