I will reply to these, just once more.
So, in other words the Moxie way. Here is how not to do it:
* He is making for customers, not himself. I don't think his against the camera itself anyway.
Well, he has said that he isn't going to put a camera in. I won't go on a post hunt for you, but this whole poll/tread/debacle did start as an attempt to sway him, after all...
* Most while dropping nearly 1/2 set of people who does want it.
No. This is a poll started in an attempt to influence EDs position on putting a camera into the Pyra. As such, you would assume that people on the board that do care about getting a camera would join in and try to raise the "yes" bit. You would assume that those who really don't care would mostly roll their eyes and, well, not care. That means that in the general case, the numbers ought to be stacked in favour of "Yes". And still, even amongst those that actually give a cows' ear about the camera, the "No" side wins. That is not "Dropping half the people who wants it", that is noting that a crapload of people don't care either way, and amongst those who do, the negative are in majority.
* Pandora/Pyra wouldn't even exist with that attitude. These modules aren't even that big.
Link Link
Wrong again. The Pyra does not exist (yet), so that position is pointless. The Pandora does exist precisely because of the reverse attitude - To carefully weigh costs (monetary, technical, space and power) against benefits, and decide on whatever makes the most sense for the device in question. We had this exact debate, about the inclusion of a camera or not, already with the Pandora (unless I'm completely senile). There where some supporters and some gainsayers, and in the end the team decided not to have one. Just as other aspects of the Pandora was weighed with pros and cons - Notably stuff like the keyboard, SD card sizes and slots, and so on. The Pandora exists because the team decided to not give in to featuritis, but to decide on a configuration of features that they could handle for design, power and cost constraints. Given the hardships along the way, I'm fairly confident in my prediction that had the team decided to adopt a camera and a GSM connection too, the Pandora really would not have existed today.
No, those modules are not that big in the context of the size of something the size of a laptop, say. In the context of something like the Pandora, they're huge. Particularly considering the stated aim that the lid part on the Pyra will be thinner, and that the screen should fill out more of it. Go on, make a little cardboard cutout, hold it along the Pandora lid and try to figure out where to put it? Now do the same while pretending the screen goes to within 5 mm of the edge of the lid?
And that is of course you ignoring the technical and economical aspects, too. A camera module costing $25 in volume, plus added development and manufacturing costs, plus taxes and margins?
* You don't know that. If there really isn't room then fine.
Let's not do the Moxie way and be vocal like everyone doing with everything else until the end or regret
otherwise.
It has been stated, several times, by ED and others, that there is no space for it. Once again I am certain that you are able to find the posts for yourself if you'd really want to.
The problem, I think, is that a few people (You and Kiga being amongst the most vocal) is envisioning some sort of rather different device. You're really expecting something like a modern smartphone welded to a keyboard and gaming controls. That'd be an interesting device, but the Pyra won't be that (once again there is an ED quote somewhere, that the Pyra will still be first and foremost a gaming device and a pocket computer). Getting the smartphone-with-keyboards-and-gaming-controls together is a much more ambitious undertaking, with a lot higher demands on the engineering and design departments. That would be a reasonable undertaking for a company with an actual engineering department, and a design department. For an outfit where the departments are more or less a bunch of hats worn by the same people at different times, that would indeed be a project that would most likely ensure that the Pyra not only does not, but will never exist.
And finally: No, I am not saying yous should be quiet. By all means, go on beating this sorry carcass some more rounds, if it rocks your boat. Comradekingu was making a joke about it being a simple matter of a few bouts of soldering, and you wanted something simpler. I told you what would be simpler, nothing more. If you want something simpler, that is the way. If you want something complicated - By all means continue this "until the end". My position, like ThrashyMGs, is that the end was reached long ago, but don't mind me.
