Abusing Pyra as communication device (needs camera)

[Askarus]

Honestly, I feel like you want a different device. The Pyra's niche is that it is both a gaming device and a portable computer. Saying "take out the gaming controls" is basically the same as saying you don't actually want the Pyra.

What are you talking about??
Pyra is whatever one makes out of it.

On my Pandora gaming was a nice addition at first but the last 3 Years it was a pure music player and working-device.

 

[emcee]

I believe there is not enough space behind the screen to do that.

Yeah, I figured as much. If need be I can mill out some of the plastic. Or, worst case, just drill a hole through. Not exactly elegant, but I did say "speaking of abusing the Pyra".

 

[stevenc99]

Just needs an appropriate mounting point for selfie stick.

 

[Djoga'Ro]

@God Ginrai Caine did a better job at expressing what I tried to:

The OP has asked a valid question. The 2nd post established the fact that we won't have a builtin solution. Hence we discuss external options and mods.

God Ginrai, for someone who doesn't care either way you spent a lot of words convincing people to carry a phone or camera instead of modding the Pyra or adding an extension. The Pyra does not and will not have a builtin camera. Do not worry. You won that discussion already.

As for a mobile phone, yes it can do all that. It can do everything the Pyra can. Why don't you just go buy a mobile phone instead, it can emulate gaming controls and keyboards on the touchscreen.

Personally, I don't want a mobile phone.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2381752,00.asp

I wonder when these will be available and how much they will be. Is 1x1x1 millimeter acceptable?

According to that article "the new microcamera would be so inexpensive that it would be disposable".
I wonder if there'll be a small, slightly convex array of them with a special purpose chip producing a coherent, high quality image one day.

 

[Silent-Hunter]

Replace the logo plate with a 20x20 grid of these cameras and interlace the output from all of them, it'll be 20 megapixels.
[doublepost=1463406312,1463406150][/doublepost]

Is 1/20 of a MP resolution acceptable?

Yes, just use many of them and interleave the output from them together.

 

[SneHebNor]

OK, I will probably buy a Pyra (standard 4GB version) as soon as it is available and than try which external camera is the least inconvenient. Maybe I will try with a box around the the Pyra containing both camera and headset.

Maybe the Pyra is in fact the wrong device for my purpose (text/audio/video chat via XMPP/SIP). But I could not yet find any device that is closer to my requirements than the Pyra:

• it is running a current Debian (natively, not in a chroot!), which allows me to use trusted, current free communication software
• it seems to have a just-about-sufficient keyboard for chats
• it can be powered and recharged by USB

and many other details I like about the Pyra. No mobile phone nor other handheld PC I'm aware of matches so close, if it not were for the missing front-facing camera. As long as I don't find another device, it makes most sense to workaround this defect with an external camera and just ignore all "gaming" features of the Pyra.

 

[Grench]

Hey, if someone wants to chop up a case or hack on a new thingy to a whatever on their Pyra - cool.

@EvilDragon - you may want to consider stocking case plastics kits as soon as practical.

Point of curiosity... How does the 'official' camera interaction on the OMAP 5 work? Is there an exposed header somewhere on one board or the other that exposes that connection to modification hackers?

 

[rygD]

Can't wait for ED to start selling Pogs from his shop!

That would be awesome.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2381752,00.asp

I wonder when these will be available and how much they will be. Is 1x1x1 millimeter acceptable?

Soon it will be even harder for me to hide from cameras. Don't you love technology?

 

[TrashyMG]

Well if you want the gritty details of the EVM board/OMAP5 BGA pad information there are two Camera interface connectors on the Devboard. However only Nikolaus knows if these are being pulled out.

Spoiler

J2 Pin # OMAP Ball # Signal Name Signal Description

1,2 --- GND Signal Ground

3 U6 H_CSIPORTA_LANE0X CSI Signal Lane 0 Data X

4 N5 H_CSIPORTA_LANE3X CSI SIgnal Lane 3 Data X

5 U5 H_CSIPORTA_LANE3Y CSI SIgnal Lane 0 Data Y

6 N6 GND CSI Signal Lane 3 Data Y

7,8 --- H_CSIPORTA_LANE1X Signal Ground

9 P6 H_CSIPORTA_LANE4X CSI Signal Lane 1 Data X

10 N7 H_CSIPORTA_LANE1Y CSI Signal Lane 4 Data X

11 P5 H_CSIPORTA_LANE4Y CSI Signal Lane 1 Data Y

12 N8 GND CSI SIgnal Lane 4 Data Y

13,14 --- H_CSIPORTA_LANE2X Signal Ground

15 P7 GPIO_WK13 CSI Signal Lane 2 Data X

16 N31 GPIO_WK13 OMAP_GPIO1_WK13

17 P8 H_GPIO8_227 CSI Signal Lane 2 Data Y

18 AE7 GND OMAP GPIO8_227

19 --- H_CAM_ RESET/GPIO8_226 Signal Ground

20 AF6 H_I2C3_SCL Camera Global Reset or GPIO8_226

21 AJ5 H_CAM_SHUTTER/GPIO8_224 I2C3 Serial Clock

22 AE6 H_I2C3_SDA Camera Shutter or GPIO8_224

23 AH4 H_CAM_STROBE/GPIO8_225 I2C3 Serial Data

24 AE5 H_GPIO5_154 Camera Strobe or GPIO8_225

25 AJ24 H_GPIO8_228 OMAP GPIO5_154

26 AD5 H_FREFCLK_0 OMAP GPIO8_228

27 M31 H_GPIO8_229 OMAP Camera Clock In

28 AD6 VSYS_BRD OMAP GPIO8_229

29 --- VSYS_BRD Battery Voltage In

30 --- VCC 2V8 CAM Onboard LDO (U42) 2.8V input voltage

Spoiler

J18 Pin # OMAP Ball # Singal Name Signal Description

1 --- VSYS_BRD Battery Voltage In

2 --- VCC_2V8_CAM Onboard LDO (U42) 2.8V input voltage

3 --- VSYS BRD Battery Voltage IN

4 --- VCC_2V8_CAM Onboard LDO (U42) 2.8V input voltage

5 M31 H_FREFCLK 0 OMAP Camera Clock In

6 --- VSYS_BRD Battery Voltage In

7 --- GND Signal Ground

8 --- VSYS_BRD Battery Voltage In

9 AJ24 H_GPIO5_154 OMAP GPIO5_154

10 --- GND Signal Ground

11 AF5 H_GPIO8_234 OMAP GPIO8_234 (or CPI_VSYNC)

12 AD6 H_GPIO8_229 OMAP GPIO8_229

13 AH4 H_I2C3_SDA I2C3 Serial Data

14 AD5 H_GPIO8_228 OMAP GPIO8_228

15 AJ5 H_I2C3_SCL I2C3 Serial Clock

16 AE5 H_CAM_STROBE/GPIO8_225 Camera Strobe or GPIO8_225

17 AG5 H_GPIO8_233 OMAP GPIO8_233 (of CPI_HSYNC)

18 AE6 H_CAM_SHUTTER/GPIO8_224 Camera Shutter or GPIO8_224

19 --- GND Signal Ground

20 AF6 H_CAM_ RESET/GPIO8_226 Camera Global Reset or GPIO8_226

21 P8 H_CSIPORTA_LANE2Y CSI Signal Lane 2 Data Y (or CPI_DATA2)

22 AE7 H_GPIO8_227 OMAP GPIO8_227

23 P7 H_CSIPORTA_LANE2X CSI Signal Lane 2 Data X (or CPI_DATA3)

24,25 --- GND Signal Ground

26 --- PIO_GPIO_20 Camera Module ID 1

27 N31 GPIO_WK13 OMAP GPIO1_WK13

28,29 --- GND Signal Ground

30 N8 H_CSIPORTA_LANE4Y CSI SIgnal Lane 4 Data Y (or CPI_DATA7)

31 P5 H_CSIPORTA_LANE1Y CSI Signal Lane 1 Data Y (or CPI_DATA0)

32 N7 H_CSIPORTA_LANE4X CSI Signal Lane 4 Data X (or CPI_DATA6)

33 P6 H_CSIPORTA_LANE1X CSI Signal Lane 1 Data X (or CPI_DATA1)

34,35 --- GND Signal Ground

36 AM32 I2C2_SDA I2C2 Serial Data

37 AL33 H_I2C2_SCL I2C2 Serial Clock

38,39 --- GND Signal Ground

40 N6 H_CSIPORTA_LANE3Y CSI Signal Lane 3 Data Y (or CPI_DATA5)

41 U5 H_CSIPORTA_LANE0Y CSI Signal Lane 0 Data Y (or CPI_WEN)

42 N5 H_CSIPORTA_LANE3X CSI Signal Lane 3 Data X (or CPI_DATA4)

43 U6 H_CSIPORTA_LANE0X CSI Signal Lane 0 Data X (or CPI_PCLK)

44,45 --- GND Signal Ground

46 Y5 H_CPI_DATA13 Parallel Camera Bit 13 (or CSIPORTB_LANE0Y)

47 J6 H_CPI_DATA8 Parallel Camera Bit 8 (or CSIPORTC_LANE0Y)

48 Y6 H_CPI_DATA12 Parallel Camera Bit 12 (or CSIPORTB_LANE0X)

49 J7 H_CPI_DATA9 Parallel Camera Bit 9 (or CSIPORTC_LANE0X)

50,51 --- GND Signal Ground

52 Y7 H_CPI_DATA14 Parallel Camera Bit 14 (or CSIPORTB_LANE1Y)

53 K6 H_CPI_DATA10 Parallel Camera Bit 10 (or CSIPORTC_LANE1Y)

54 Y8 H_CPI_DATA15 Parallel Camera Bit 15 (or CSIPORTB_LANE1X)

55 K5 H_CPI_DATA11 Parallel Camera Bit 11 (or CSIPORTC_LANE1X)

56,57 --- GND Signal Ground

58 AA5 H_GPIO8_IN250 Parallel Camera_HSYNC IN (or CSIPORTB_LANE2Y)

59 --- PIO_GPIO_17 Camera Module ID 0

60 AA6 H_GPIO8_IN251 Parallel Camera VSYNC IN (or CSIPORTB_LANE2X)

 

[Caine]

So far I haven't heard anything about exposing the connections for hacking. I would have expected it to be advertised if such connections were available.

 

[God Ginrai]

Lol, just as I comment on people getting fussy over exposed ports, that post is immediately followed up by people getting fussy over a camera. Keep moving in this direction and we'll land on keyboard layout discussions again.

Do not speak of it, lest you invoke it! <.<

The OP has asked a valid question. The 2nd post established the fact that we won't have a builtin solution. Hence we discuss external options and mods.

God Ginrai, for someone who doesn't care either way you spent a lot of words convincing people to carry a phone or camera instead of modding the Pyra or adding an extension. The Pyra does not and will not have a builtin camera. Do not worry. You won that discussion already.

Maybe I read your post wrong? The way I interpreted your original response to me was that that was a list of reasons why the Pyra should have a camera in it. I was merely explaining that those reasons could be solved by other devices and it was not necessary to request changing the device to add that in. If you meant that those were reasons to mod one in, then I apologize for misunderstanding.

As for a mobile phone, yes it can do all that. It can do everything the Pyra can. Why don't you just go buy a mobile phone instead, it can emulate gaming controls and keyboards on the touchscreen.

Personally, I don't want a mobile phone.

A mobile phone does not make an adequate gaming device due to lack of controls. A touchscreen (especially a capacitive one) is not sufficient to control any games which make even slightly complex use of controls. I am sure you are quite aware of this.

What are you talking about??
Pyra is whatever one makes out of it.

On my Pandora gaming was a nice addition at first but the last 3 Years it was a pure music player and working-device.

Yes, and if he wants to make it into a non-gaming device, he is free to. However, he was not suggesting that. He was suggesting EvilDragon change it into a non-gaming device, which would not be "whatever one makes of it" but instead be forcing the gaming portion out of the system.

OK, I will probably buy a Pyra (standard 4GB version) as soon as it is available and than try which external camera is the least inconvenient. Maybe I will try with a box around the the Pyra containing both camera and headset.

Maybe the Pyra is in fact the wrong device for my purpose (text/audio/video chat via XMPP/SIP). But I could not yet find any device that is closer to my requirements than the Pyra:

• it is running a current Debian (natively, not in a chroot!), which allows me to use trusted, current free communication software
• it seems to have a just-about-sufficient keyboard for chats
• it can be powered and recharged by USB

and many other details I like about the Pyra. No mobile phone nor other handheld PC I'm aware of matches so close, if it not were for the missing front-facing camera. As long as I don't find another device, it makes most sense to workaround this defect with an external camera and just ignore all "gaming" features of the Pyra.

Aside from the "must run debian" thing, you basically just described features that the Neo900 provides. It even has a front-facing camera. I'm not trying to turn you away from the Pyra, since obviously more pre-orders means happier EvilDragon, which will likely mean happier users. I'm just making sure you are aware.

-God Ginrai

 

[Klumpen]

 

[Butterkeks]

Yes, and if he wants to make it into a non-gaming device, he is free to. However, he was not suggesting that. He was suggesting EvilDragon change it into a non-gaming device, which would not be "whatever one makes of it" but instead be forcing the gaming portion out of the system.

That sounds a bit harsh. He asked politely wether there could be a Pyra with a camera and basically meant, he could live well without the gaming stuff.
I'm sure he didn't want to 'force' anything. Plus, you know just as well as I do that a Pyra without gaming controls is never going to happen.

I guess that several misunderstanding caused this slightly divisive discussion.

Soon it will be even harder for me to hide from cameras. Don't you love technology?

Don't worry - with all these lovely surveillance options available right now, this will barely even matter

 

[God Ginrai]

That sounds a bit harsh. He asked politely wether there could be a Pyra with a camera and basically meant, he could live well without the gaming stuff.
I'm sure he didn't want to 'force' anything. Plus, you know just as well as I do that a Pyra without gaming controls is never going to happen.

I guess that several misunderstanding caused this slightly divisive discussion.

His request looked like a lot of the requests we saw after the Pandora pre-orders were over. Most of the requests then were exactly that.

-God Ginrai

 

[Djoga'Ro]

That would be awesome.



Soon it will be even harder for me to hide from cameras. Don't you love technology?

Vantablack!
[doublepost=1463427369,1463427020][/doublepost]@God Ginrai He wrote:

Hi,

I'm thinking of purchasing a handheld computer for communication using e.g. XMPP and SIP over Wifi, but not GSM/LTE. The Pyra seems to be perfect for my needs, only it lacks a front-facing camera for video chat. VGA quality would be sufficient. An external camera would not be very convenient. OTOH, I do not need any gaming related inputs nor sensors, but I don't mind if they are there.

Is there any chance for an updated Pyra with front-facing camera? Maybe at the sacrifice of the gaming stuff?

Cheers

See https://framasphere.org/posts/1820000

If mean this, the OP, he's just saying he has no need for them, but also dosn't mind 'em. That's no suggestion for change, much less a demand, much lesser forcing anything.

 

[God Ginrai]

Vantablack!
[doublepost=1463427369,1463427020][/doublepost]@God Ginrai He wrote:

If mean this, the OP, he's just saying he has no need for them, but also dosn't mind 'em. That's no suggestion for change, much less a demand, much lesser forcing anything.

Where else would he fit the camera but where the gaming inputs are? Given that there is no space for a camera in the lid, due to the large screen. I pointed that out earlier.

-God Ginrai

 

[Djoga'Ro]

@God Ginrai Only now I see his two questions after what I highlighted. No demand either. That's just asking if it's thinkable. We all know the answer to that. Hardly, the pyras first purpose is still game emulation. full stopp

 

[Yoyobuae]

Assuming a community mod: Probably some kind of mod to the LCB PCB to integrate camera(s) together with a smaller LCD to allow space for such camera(s).

Issue is that might also imply loosing the rotator chip since it might not be available in low quantities, or might make the PCB harder to produce. Would need rely on X server or 3D hardware to rotate the screen.

How difficult would be to make custom display PCB, custom lid parts and source an alternative LCD is the question I guess.

 

[Grench]

A thought...

Open Pyra 90 degrees, stand it on it's left side, switch the display to portrait mode.
Put USB stick camera in one or more 90 degree adapters so it points back at you from around the base (on the right side).

 

[FBnil]

Is 1/20 of a MP resolution acceptable

Nope. 0.3 megapixels is a minimum.... less will not capture things. 1/20 is 0.05 megapixels...
640×480 = 307,200 pixels or 0.3 megapixels.
250×250 = 62,500 pixels or 0.05 megapixels.

This image is 255x255 pixels
http://www.bestgifever.com/data/images/2015/04/1429507294-432060597.gif

• Camera (connected to USB3 port)

+1 However, for those, fast, I need a picture... the Pyra will not boot on time to take a snapshot.

• ESATA (builtin version of the eSATA adapter)

+1 If we intent to replace our desktop with a Pyra... yes, this is a + (or just use network drives, but we all know the speed of those...)

• HDMI (full-size) (forwards to microHDMI)

+1 I was actually a bit dissapointed when I learned that I, yet again, need a new cable to see things on a big screen... makes sense though, but aargh... another cable...
[doublepost=1463432642,1463431822][/doublepost]

Given that there is no space for a camera in the lid

There is, if you consider the lower left corner (and forego the screw and screw holder). You see, there is still a bezel, and there are no keys opposite of that, so you can put the camera totally outside, and only the PCB inside. Also, maybe it fits inside the hinges, in the transparent prototype those are air now. The hole cut must be small, as to not compromise the stresses that the hinge receives from the lid. I plan to put my led lights there, and replace the pyra logo with something of my own...