Should ED stop delivering units to Craig?

[timwylie]

So you're saying that I should effectively just 'donate' my couple of hundred Euros in order to support the Pandora 2?

No, you already lost your money by giving it to Craig. Craig has created the problem, not ED. He is using investors money for something that could be a lost cause..    

But this problem is partially the fault of all the pandora leaders.  I was going to purchase through ED's shop (on Oct 1, 2008), but we were told that if we were in the US, we had to order through Craig.  How is it my fault that I ordered the way I was told?  I agree Craig needs to be cut from the project, but it's hardly fair to throw his preorderers under the bus when all the founders made the rules about regional ordering.

 

[EvilDragon]

I agree Craig needs to be cut from the project, but it's hardly fair to throw his preorderers under the bus when all the founders made the rules about regional ordering.

We didn't. Craig was the one who put his money into it and made all the decisions. I never had any personal money invested (I didn't have any), so I just followed what he wanted.

 

[timwylie]

I agree Craig needs to be cut from the project, but it's hardly fair to throw his preorderers under the bus when all the founders made the rules about regional ordering.

We didn't. Craig was the one who put his money into it and made all the decisions. I never had any personal money invested (I didn't have any), so I just followed what he wanted.

Sorry, I didn't realize that it wasn't a regional plan to begin with.  I just wish I'd ordered from you in the first place.  It's unfortunate that you've been stuck with all the problems.

 

[vcoleiro1]

ED, Any chance you can pickup the phone and call Craig to work out a resolution(including getting lists)  for his remaining orders, refunds , RMAs ? in

 

[EvilDragon]

I'm not sure what a phone call could do better than MSN / ICQ or email.


Besides that I don't have a phone number


Also, what should we work out?


I can provide units up to a certain amount, based on profits.


I also offered to help with communicating with his customers.


He can try to help selling units. He can try to be more open, let us (or at least me) know accurate numbers.


There's nothing in the situation a phone call would change...

 

[vcoleiro1]

I'm not sure what a phone call could do better than MSN / ICQ or email.


Besides that I don't have a phone number


Also, what should we work out?


I can provide units up to a certain amount, based on profits.


I also offered to help with communicating with his customers.


He can try to help selling units. He can try to be more open, let us (or at least me) know accurate numbers.


There's nothing in the situation a phone call would change...

You don't have Craigs phone number?

Given the breakdown in comms that Craig and yourself have said is happening via email etc, I think at this stage a phone call would be the best option . For the sake of the remaining people left in Craigs queues it would help if they had a firm answer to whether they will get there Pandora or refund, that still needs to be worked out and communicated clearly - as we know Craig seems to have more than the amount agreed. Question now is, are you willing to help these people out also? If so you will need to talk to Craig about it and then communicate what will happen.

 

[Kumaki]

Personally, from a business standpoint, I would say that ED is generating far more from the goodwill by fulfilling these orders...than the short-term financial gain and bad PR that would go with not filling them.  Even though it is not ED's fault, Pandora, and by extension ED, would get the effect of the bad PR.

By doing what he is doing, he is generating a lot of goodwill - and that will serve him well in any possible future venture with a Pandora 2 - or any other business venture he chooses to do once this mess is taken care of.

People who leave messes behind them tend to have it catch up to them later on.

 

[Galaxis]

Given the breakdown in comms that Craig and yourself have said is happening via email etc, I think at this stage a phone call would be the best option .

Not necessarily. Don't forget there's also a language barrier at work here, which probably puts ED at a disadvantage in any phone conversation. Yes, a phone call can clear up some atmospheric problems, being somewhat off the record (in contrast to any electronic communication) - but it's also easier to have misunderstandings.

There is no good solution unless Craig turns up the money to pay his depts towards ED (the first 1GHz units Craig got sent are still unpaid, right?) and his customers.

 

[vcoleiro1]

^ I think it's fair to say based on the many videos I have seen with ED, that he speaks English just fine.

 

[Kumaki]

Well, as a small business owner myself, I can say that Craig may speak English fine, but he sure as hell does not speak business.

 

[andmaz777]

I think that ED should continue as normal until the agreement of the investor plan is fulfilled.


At that point then Craig needs to pass all outstanding pre order info to ED so that the fulfilment of that can be managed.


I can completely understand why Craig is not happy as he did invest a lot of his own money hoping to make a fortune - now in order to complete the project he has had to relinquish power and presumably write off the money he has invested.


It would significantly change my view of Craig if we knew just what Craig has/stands to lose - that may put into perspective the small amounts of money the pre orders stand to lose albeit thanks to ED and a little patience that will not happen.


Personally, if I had put the effort in that Craig has and then lost say £100k on the project then that would probably send me into depression.


I have always both supported and been critical of Craig but recently have thought just how bad all this has been on him albeit some self inflicted due to communication issues but still even perfect communication would still probably leave us where we are now!

 

[Kumaki]

With communication at least we would KNOW.

Business is business, and business does not stop for personal hangups.

On a personal level, maybe I can feel bad for Craig, but on a business level, I have nothing but contempt for him - and I'm not even one of the people who have been jobbed.

 

[Fzero]

I feel Craig has dug his grave, I think I've been one of the easier going customers, and whilst really appreciate what ED is doing in order to help Craigs customers, I don't see why he should have to. ED deserves to have some profit for his work, not have to spend all his time and money sorting problems Craig has abandoned. End of the day our pre order money did involve some risk and that much was clear.

I also backed the iCP2, mainly because I still held a little faith in Craig, he was still posting here and I figured eventually we'd get our Pandora. I wanted to help back the iCP project too.

The chances of my pre ordering ever again for one of Craigs projects are far slimmer now, I'm quite sure I would not have trust in him now.

This is pretty much solely down to his lack of comms, been radio silence for what, couple months now at least eh

I'd imagine a lot of others are in the same boat, we'd happily back future projects from ED, not for Craig though

Is a shame

 

[Trezker]

I think how much ED ships to Craig was pretty much decided back when he made the plan for clearing up the mess and thus convincing investors to step in and save the project.

If Craig still has a mess left after ED runs out of room within his plan, Craig has to be on his own because ED will have to start working on paying back the investors money.

The question that popped in my mind is rather: Should Craig pay ED back for all the Pandoras ED so generously has donated to his company?

That would certainly make the investors very happy. But it sure looks unlikely to happen.

 

[Kumaki]

No, ED should not HAVE to.  But again, the goodwill he buys now will serve him well in the long run.

Too many businesses today do not have the long view.  This is why we get crappy service, argument from customer service over every little thing, refusal to take responsibility, sweeping problems under the rug....well, eventually, it all comes home to roost - and the ones who do business RIGHT....even at a short-term loss....are the ones who gain in the long term.

Because I know I only do business with companies I consider to be ethical in their business dealings.  If I didn't have Link, I would have NO problem doing business with ED.  there are a lot of companies that have lost my business forever, because they diod not treat their customers properly.

 

[ShleeDragon]

ED looks like he's given up on Craig telling him the truth. So he's just doing what he can.

ED also knows that Craig isn't really a bad guy. He's just a guy who has lost hundreds of thousands in a project he will never get a return on his investment.... so he's walked away.

Business as usual...

 

[b_o_b]

EDs company needs to survive. That should be a priority for ED and the investors. Ridiculous to talk about long term right now. First this needs to be fixed. The easiest method is get rid of Craig, compensate his pre-order queue with a discount and lower all Pandoras prices. You will immediately have a healthy situation and can build from there. 

Still think it is unbelievable Craig gets of the hook so easily and there are people feeling sorry for him... how naive.    

 

[Null]

He's so good that he reminds me of this guy born just over 2000 years ago.

Bruce Forsyth?

 

[Kumaki]

EDs company needs to survive. That should be a priority for ED and the investors. Ridiculous to talk about long term right now. First this needs to be fixed. The easiest method is get rid of Craig, compensate his pre-order queue with a discount and lower all Pandoras prices. You will immediately have a healthy situation and can build from there. 

Still think it is unbelievable Craig gets of the hook so easily and there are people feeling sorry for him... how naive.    

Well, if this DOESN'T get fixed, there is no long-term.  Which was exactly my point...and why I said ED still should continue to fill Craig's queue.

 

[klapse]

Well the basic idea to jump ahead of the queue based on amount of donation isn't all bad. A "highest donors first" scheme might anger some people but if would probably clear the queue faster.