Should ED stop delivering units to Craig?

Should ED stop delivering units to Craig?

  • Yes

    Votes: 23 32.9%
  • No

    Votes: 47 67.1%

  • Total voters
    70

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elwing

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He should stop shipping units to Craig. He can ship them to Craig's preorderers directly if he wants to, but I think Craig has proved to be untrustworthy, and until he gives accurate information (i.e. a detailed list) to ED, I don't see why ED should believe that Craig is even shipping those units to his preorderers - for all we know, Craig could just as well be selling them on eBay or handing them out to his friends, we have no clue at all. (ninja'd by ED himself, looks like this is arranged in a better way than what I assumed)

Also, I would like ED to be able to pay his debts and his investors ASAP, so he can get his hands free to start thinking about a successor to the Pandora. Any free unit sent to Craig's preorderers is essentially slowing down this process, although I do think those original preorderers have the right to get their unit (but it's not necessarily up to ED to deliver it). In my opinion, the following would be a better solution:

1. Craig sends ED his full list of preorderers

2. ED calculates an rough estimated shipping date for everyone on the list (basically the avg time per preorder unit times the queue position)

3. Everybody in the queue gets a choice:

  • Stay in the queue, pay nothing (this option already exists, but without the ETA)
  • Pay a bit to get the unit faster (not immediately, but something closer to now and it becomes a hard deadline, not a rough estimate)
  • Pay the production cost to get the unit now (this option already exists)
  • Get out of the queue, and get a voucher for the DragonBox shop, which can be used e.g. in the future to help buy a potential Pandora 2
  • Get a refund (this option already exists)
 For choices 4 and 5, I think Craig should pay for (at least a significant part of) the refund/voucher. After all, these are still his customers. His main incentive to give the list to ED and let him handle it, is that probably less people will ask for a full refund when ED is handling things than when Craig is (poorly) handling them.
I quite like this, there's however just two things I'dd like to point:

- Get a refund (this option already exists): this seems quite false to me, as even if you can ask for a refund money cannot appear out of thin air and with good reason ED is not sending money to craig.

- that's a nice idea, but it revolve to the assumption that craig care about his customer which, without any doubts proved wrong all theses years, if you stop sending preorder you'll just do that, it won't be a good reason for him to send the list to ED, in the end the customer would be the only one screwed by that...
 
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klapse

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We all mail our order confirmation...


...the danger of Craig slipping in new orders and pocketing the cash is gone.
1) not all preorderers are reading this forum

2) there is already no danger of Craig pocketing cash since Ed isn't sending Craig any cash and Craig isn't taking new orders.


I suppose there is a remote possibility that Craig might slip in a few secret new orders, but there is no way he can sell many units without it being noticed.
 
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vcoleiro1

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We all mail our order confirmation...


...the danger of Craig slipping in new orders and pocketing the cash is gone.
1) not all preorderers are reading this forum

2) there is already no danger of Craig pocketing cash since Ed isn't sending Craig any cash and Craig isn't taking new orders.


I suppose there is a remote possibility that Craig might slip in a few secret new orders, but there is no way he can sell many units without it being noticed.
This is something I'm sure a lot of us have thought about. Klapse is correct, not everyone regularly reads this forum or would see the appropriate thread.  It would get a pretty poor response.

The only thing I could think of that would generate a significant response would be to do a mail out to all forum members.  I'm sure the forum admin could do this if they so desired.  I'm making a guess here, but I'd say most pre-orderers are members of this forum , probably 90% of them at least..  I doubt this will happen though as the admin is ED, frankly it would be easier for him to just call Craig.
 
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Timstertoo

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We all mail our order confirmation...
...the danger of Craig slipping in new orders and pocketing the cash is gone.

1) not all preorderers are reading this forum
2) there is already no danger of Craig pocketing cash since Ed isn't sending Craig any cash and Craig isn't taking new orders.
I suppose there is a remote possibility that Craig might slip in a few secret new orders, but there is no way he can sell many units without it being noticed.

This is something I'm sure a lot of us have thought about. Klapse is correct, not everyone regularly reads this forum or would see the appropriate thread. It would get a pretty poor response.

The only thing I could think of that would generate a significant response would be to do a mail out to all forum members. I'm sure the forum admin could do this if they so desired. I'm making a guess here, but I'd say most pre-orderers are members of this forum , probably 90% of them at least.. I doubt this will happen though as the admin is ED, frankly it would be easier for him to just call Craig.
That's why I put in my post that a mail should be sent out to all forum members.

Personally I think this list should be made if only to put next to the next in line orders supplied by Craig.

At the very least it should give some idea of the amount of orders still out there and provides a backup for when Craig does his runner. Which I predict will be after the ICP2's are shipped.

Let's put it this way, I as a original pre order stuck in Craig's mess would feel much better if I'd knew there is a list in ED's hand and he can keep an eye on the names provided.

What if I sent Craig a mail now and offer him €100,- to be next in line and upgrade me to a 1GhZ?
 
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Fzero

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I've thought about this before....

As it seems Craig has no clue as to the amount of orders he has remaining, either that or just doesn't want to disclose the number for whatever reason.

Perhaps a sticky thread here on these boards could exist, which only Craigs existing pre-orderers would post in ... and only once.

If that rule was adhered, we'd probably get a fairly true count of how many were outstanding I would imagine.

I'd suspect that pretty much all of us still waiting check into these forums at least now and then.

The total post count would reflect the total remaining orders.

I did think of starting such a thread and putting down Post#1

Think worth doing?
 

Fzero

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ok I'll start one off then - If a Mod could stick it perhaps so it stays in view for visitors, including those that might not visit too often.. cheers
 
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Timstertoo

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ok I'll start one off then - If a Mod could stick it perhaps so it stays in view for visitors, including those that might not visit too often.. cheers
Good idea. :)

A usable list for ED would have to include real names, order date and time and adress and I'd strongly recommend not putting that on a public forum.

But if your post turns out like something ED could use the rest of the info could always be provided through PM or so. It's a great start.
 

Matthias_H

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He doesn't get Pandoras. I always ask him for the next addresses to ship the Pandoras to.


And following the boards, it seems they all have been old customers.
Have you considered asking him for ALL the remaining addresses?
 
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levi

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That's why I put in my post that a mail should be sent out to all forum members.
Which forum?  When I originally signed up I read the announcement on the gp32x forum, iirc.

Granted, I signed up to this forum when it came up, but the birth of this forum was not exactly a happy and joyous occasion, and I was tempted to not sign up and just track the project via news announcements.  As it is, this forum has exceeded all of my expectations I'm glad to say, and I don't regret signing up for a second - but still, if my opinion at the time was at all representative, not all of the preorderers will have signed up to comment here.

FWIW, I'm no longer a preorder.  When the opportunity to upgrade via ED came up, even though it cost me a few euro more than cancelling with Craig and buying a Ghz unit outright with ED, that I could pay one amount of money, settle up within a matter of days, upgrade by contract to a contract with ED, and not push Craig further into debt, it seemed a pretty damn good deal to me, and at the time I had the money to make it happen.  Granted, I ultimately paid ED less than I would have for my unit, but I've already ordered other items from ED, and I'm planning to order more things from him once they become available.
 

andyB911

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Follow on question....

Should we support icp2?   I did via kickstarter, not that I particularly want one (the original is 'ok') but I hoped that if he makes some money from that it may filter back to Ed.   Thats probably ridiculously optimistic.  Thoughts?
 

ShleeDragon

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If Craig makes money from selling the iCP2 units AFTER the kickstarter.. then he should funnel that back into the Pandora queue.

until then, the kickstarter is it's own monster
 

taylor-madeak

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He doesn't get Pandoras. I always ask him for the next addresses to ship the Pandoras to.


And following the boards, it seems they all have been old customers.
Have you considered asking him for ALL the remaining addresses?
It's been done several times.  Craig doesn't even acknowledge such requests are made, let alone make any attempt to address them.
 

Ian J

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If Craig makes money from selling the iCP2 units AFTER the kickstarter.. then he should funnel that back into the Pandora queue.

until then, the kickstarter is it's own monster
Should, but I doubt he will.
 

elwing

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as far as I'm aware nothing coerce him in doing that.. and seen how he care about us... I have some serious doubt
 

sterling976

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Why wouldn't Craig use iCP profits to deliver Pandoras?   The liability for those outstanding units and refunds are all on his books, even though his iCP and Pandora businesses are separate entities.  I'd like to think he feels an obligation to honor his contracts, but even if he doesn't, it's in his best interest to erase that liability.
 

elwing

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Why wouldn't Craig use iCP profits to deliver Pandoras?   The liability for those outstanding units and refunds are all on his books, even though his iCP and Pandora businesses are separate entities.  I'd like to think he feels an obligation to honor his contracts, but even if he doesn't, it's in his best interest to erase that liability.
that's what any normal and honest person would do, but I don't think that apply to him
 

Ian J

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Why wouldn't Craig use iCP profits to deliver Pandoras?   The liability for those outstanding units and refunds are all on his books, even though his iCP and Pandora businesses are separate entities.  I'd like to think he feels an obligation to honor his contracts, but even if he doesn't, it's in his best interest to erase that liability.
My guess would be that OP Ltd & iCP Ltd are different companies and as such one is not responsible for the others debts.
 

notaz

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Well it's much easier for Craig to hide his sorry ass and do nothing, waiting for ED to sort it all out. At least that's exactly what he has been doing over the last months. We can just wait "two months" and see how iCP2 turns out and what happens next.
 
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