Idea to break the impasse

[b1llygo4t]

craig said "we" raised 1.5 million dollars to launch the pandora. thats what he said in that interview and thats what we all signed up for, thats what the world sees and thats how it was advertised to us. no word about multiple companies or customers losing money on a risk investment for a product that can be freely purchased today. nothing about this guys shop being closed up or his customers left out to dry while the product we "kickstarted" lives on.

 

[b1llygo4t]

wow so you asked for an update and they cancelled your order?

No she ask if there were hundreds of people in front of her she wanted a refund.. So that's what happened. I guess the only confusion is the definition of hundreds.

no she said:


"Basically I want to know how many people are ahead of me. If I'm close, then I will wait. If hundreds are ahead of me, then I will make a refund demand and move on"


and jacquelyn canceled the order without Mary ever making the demand. I.E. your WRONG

 

[TrashyMG]

Partially I suppose.. But honestly this response is better than most are getting from Craig's shop recently. It is at least some kind of response.

 

[b1llygo4t]

Partially I suppose.. But honestly this response is better than most are getting from Craig's shop recently. It is at least some kind of response.

what is partial about it? it should have its own thread and should be pinned.

 

[klapse]

wow so you asked for an update and they cancelled your order?

No she ask if there were hundreds of people in front of her she wanted a refund.. So that's what happened. I guess the only confusion is the definition of hundreds.

How many 1ghz upgrades did Craig have in total? I seem to recall 170, with about 70 delivered and 100 remaining. Is this right?

 

[b1llygo4t]

wow so you asked for an update and they cancelled your order?

No she ask if there were hundreds of people in front of her she wanted a refund.. So that's what happened. I guess the only confusion is the definition of hundreds.

How many 1ghz upgrades did Craig have in total? I seem to recall 170, with about 70 delivered and 100 remaining. Is this right?

::EDIT:: didn't realize who I was responding to. apologies.


mary was not in the 1ghz que, she was in the original pre order que.

 

[b1llygo4t]

someone needs to update the wiki article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora_%28console%29

"As of September 3, 2012, 4600 units have been shipped and 400 early supporters are still waiting to receive a console,[11] as these pre-orders are only fulfilled when sales to new customers are made."

 

[Neelix]

wow so you asked for an update and they cancelled your order?  is this how business is handled in the UK? no wonder they wont go after CC if this is the type of business practices they are used to and accept.  no update at all to pre orders, his shop is closed, what happened to selling units to clear the que? dont you people have laws to protect consumers and hold people accountable? don't you people have a way to tarnish this mans record and stop him from doing this all again? the ICP falls apart, the ICP 2 is late. they are selling pandoras and even going so far as to start designing a pandora2 while preorders are still waiting. when does it end? all the while this guy is buying 3d printers and electric cars.

If we were to do any of these things we'd seriously be shooting ourselves in the foot.  Don't forget that at this point we need new customers to have any hope of clearing the queue,  and tarnishing Craig's reputation is only going to make that job harder. As galling as it may be for you to see Craig publicly presenting a successful project and a united front,  if we put ourselves out of the way to break that image it will be much much harder for ED to sell new units.

A few things to remember:

• Though Craig is currently publicising things,  all new Pandora sales currently go through ED, Link, or a German reseller and its these sales that are funding the pre-order deliveries.
• Credit where credit is due,  Craig was the visionary who got all this started.  Without Craig there would be no Pandora, no iCP, and no iCP2.
• ICP2 may be late, but in the grand scheme of things its not yet unacceptably  or even unexpectedly late, and as far as we know, is still on track.
• If ICP2 succeeds then the some of the profits might be reinvested into the Pandora project helping to fund further pre-order deliveries.
• If ICP2 fails,  then it's the Community that funded it that loses out.

As much as you or I may dislike the way Craig does business, discrediting him now is only going to cause more problems than it solves.

- Neelix

 

[Marycontrary]

wow so you asked for an update and they cancelled your order?  is this how business is handled in the UK? no wonder they wont go after CC if this is the type of business practices they are used to and accept.  no update at all to pre orders, his shop is closed, what happened to selling units to clear the que? dont you people have laws to protect consumers and hold people accountable? don't you people have a way to tarnish this mans record and stop him from doing this all again? the ICP falls apart, the ICP 2 is late. they are selling pandoras and even going so far as to start designing a pandora2 while preorders are still waiting. when does it end? all the while this guy is buying 3d printers and electric cars.

If we were to do any of these things we'd seriously be shooting ourselves in the foot.  Don't forget that at this point we need new customers to have any hope of clearing the queue,  and tarnishing Craig's reputation is only going to make that job harder. As galling as it may be for you to see Craig publicly presenting a successful project and a united front,  if we put ourselves out of the way to break that image it will be much much harder for ED to sell new units.

A few things to remember:

• Though Craig is currently publicising things,  all new Pandora sales currently go through ED, Link, or a German reseller and its these sales that are funding the pre-order deliveries.
• Credit where credit is due,  Craig was the visionary who got all this started.  Without Craig there would be no Pandora, no iCP, and no iCP2.
• ICP2 may be late, but in the grand scheme of things its not yet unacceptably  or even unexpectedly late, and as far as we know, is still on track.
• If ICP2 succeeds then the some of the profits might be reinvested into the Pandora project helping to fund further pre-order deliveries.
• If ICP2 fails,  then it's the Community that funded it that loses out.

As much as you or I may dislike the way Craig does business, discrediting him now is only going to cause more problems than it solves.

- Neelix

Craig may have been the visionary, but it was us....the original preorders that made the Pandora happen. Don't you ever forget that. You don't want us to discredit Craig? Get real. He discredits ouya, saying it will fail, like he is some sort of success? Bite me! I have seen all sorts of numbers thrown around about how many preorders remain. The closest we got to a real answer was 700 preorders remaining on dec 14, 2012 in the further update to preorder thread. It seems that you want the unhappy customers to put up a fake front so we don't scare away future customers. Okay, shall I start lying and claim I'm a happy camper playing with my imaginary Pandora.

someone needs to update the wiki article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora_%28console%29


"As of September 3, 2012, 4600 units have been shipped and 400 early supporters are still waiting to receive a console,[11] as these pre-orders are only fulfilled when sales to new customers are made."

 

[Neelix]

Craig may have been the visionary, but it was us....the original preorders that made the Pandora happen. Don't you ever forget that. You don't want us to discredit Craig? Get real. He discredits ouya, saying it will fail, like he is some sort of success? Bite me! I have seen all sorts of numbers thrown around about how many preorders remain. The closest we got to a real answer was 700 preorders remaining on dec 14, 2012 in the further update to preorder thread. It seems that you want the unhappy customers to put up a fake front so we don't scare away future customers. Okay, shall I start lying and claim I'm a happy camper playing with my imaginary Pandora.

I'm not saying that at all. I don't expect unhappy customers to put up a fake front at all, I just think it would be better if they don't actively try to make trouble for the rest of the pre-order customers still in the queue who might otherwise one day receive their order.

- Neelix

 

[Marycontrary]

someone needs to update the wiki article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora_%28console%29


"As of September 3, 2012, 4600 units have been shipped and 400 early supporters are still waiting to receive a console,[11] as these pre-orders are only fulfilled when sales to new customers are made."

Who put that in the wiki? Did that info come from Craig? Somebody was either lying or just pulling a number out of their butt. But yeah, fix it! and the citation (11) is a dead link. Credibility anyone?

For the sake of credibility, put some real answers out there. You seem to be worried about Craig's reputation and seem to want us to be martyr's for the cause. Seriously, It's like the happy people who, by the luck of thor, who actually bought a pandora without being on the queue from hell, have any right whatsoever to tell us to settle down.  For all of you wanting to protect Craig, how about you send me $330 and you can have my place in the queue. You sit there for a while, with no real information forcoming, except it's all a mess and it's everyone elses fault. I hope Craig has learned a thing or two in the last 4 years. I hope ICP2 is a success, but Craig's shadiness will forever hold him back. Some people are good worker bees and some are good businessmen. Craig is a gifted individual and a great worker bee, unfortunately he does not have the skills required to be a good leader.

You know I went from being an asset to Pandora by being a preorder, to being a liability and a debt. When I was an asset, I was thanked and given promising updates. As a liability, I'm being pushed into the shadows and hidden away. While Pandora begs for money to help my situation out. Yeah, that feels good. It comes across as I'm to blame for my situation. Preorders didn't pay enough, preorders are holding us back. I offer to up my ante by $150 so that I don't get my pandora at a discount, if I can get it soon. That got shot down. Obviously, I have not suffered enough or sacrificed enough.

I wrote Jacquelyn back:

"If hundreds are ahead of me," does not equal this  "There are more than a hundred orders in front of your order"

I wanted the information so I could make a decision. You took it upon yourself to make the decision for me. I did not say if there are more than one hundred before me to cancel. I consider this to be passive/aggressive behavior.

 

Craig's newsletter does little to inform the people invested here with the severity of his problem. He basically asks for us to double down and get something now, or wait and maybe you will get something, maybe not. Many of those who did agree to what I called ransom are still waiting. Craig has also said there was a tax refund that would fix things up, but no further updates on that either. You leave us all to make assumptions. Some believe he has used pandora funds to start a new company. Some believe he got a cool electric car with it and some believe he paid for his girlfriends schooling. Transparency and an honest answer to questions would go far in terms of settling the masses who feel used and abused by all this. Personally, I think he was just buying time to get his new company off and running before declaring bankruptcy and disappointing all of us.

 

I'm sorry for your illness and glad you are up and going again. Jacquelyn, you are not Craig and I do not like shooting the messenger. I also understand that some circumstances are beyond anyones control. You have to understand my concerns. The new website does not list Craigs shop as a retailer anymore. Craig is absent from the forums now and my emails went unanswered. It appeared he is out of business. I'm glad someone is there to respond as I was fearful he had closed shop. Since Craig is no longer selling product, how will he pay refunds. Will I be put in a refund queue to wait another 3 years?

 

And she responded:

 

Hello Mary,

Please accept my sincere apologies that I misunderstood your previous email, I certainly did not intend my cancelling of your order to be taken as 'passive/agressive' behaviour.  I presumed, wrongly, that you would prefer to cancel your order due to their being more than a hundred orders in front of your's. If you wish your order to be re-instated please let me know.


All the people who upgraded after receiving Craig's newsletter have either received their order or it is in transit.  All monies taken by us to upgrade were sent to Michael who then shipped the orders and customers who upgraded directly with Michael via his DragonBox website using discount vouchers had their orders shipped directly from the store.


I can assure you categorically that Craig has not used any money from OpenPandora Ltd to fund ICP Ltd - the company, idea and design for the ICP started late 2008 -  to buy an electric car or fund his girlfriend's education. That would be illegal but I understand how rumours can start.  I am sure, if these rumours/allegations have been mentioned on the forums, Craig has refuted them directly.


We are doing everything we can to reverse the current situation and ship all outstanding original pre-orders. Michael is now shipping all orders, as this is much faster than shipping to ourselves to despatch, and each new order helps towards shipping an original pre-order - his and our's.  When Craig recovers from his illness he will be promoting the Pandora to generate new sales and also will be back on the forum. 


It is my error that your emails were unanswered, due to illness over the last few months I have been absent from the office quite a lot and therefore many emails were either not answered or marked as answered incorrectly. I am doing by best to rectify this though it will take me some time to do so due to the hundreds of emails I receive, as I am still only in the office for a few hours per day or as many as I am able to do. Thank you for your kind words.


While we are not able to process refunds immediately we do intend to process these as soon as we are able to.


Kind regards


Jacquelyn


 I then responded back that I want to know how many ahead of me and to keep me in the queue for now. I am running out of patience and I've already wasted 3yrs.

 

 

 

 

 

Craig may have been the visionary, but it was us....the original preorders that made the Pandora happen. Don't you ever forget that. You don't want us to discredit Craig? Get real. He discredits ouya, saying it will fail, like he is some sort of success? Bite me! I have seen all sorts of numbers thrown around about how many preorders remain. The closest we got to a real answer was 700 preorders remaining on dec 14, 2012 in the further update to preorder thread. It seems that you want the unhappy customers to put up a fake front so we don't scare away future customers. Okay, shall I start lying and claim I'm a happy camper playing with my imaginary Pandora.

I'm not saying that at all. I don't expect unhappy customers to put up a fake front at all, I just think it would be better if they don't actively try to make trouble for the rest of the pre-order customers still in the queue who might otherwise one day receive their order.


- Neelix

Yeah, I think that's how Bernie Madoff looked at it too.

 

[Neelix]

Do you think its fair to ED to punish him for Craig's sins by bringing down his business?

I don't deny your right to complain and I even agree with most of the complaints, but what b1llygo4t was suggesting would not just harm Craig but everyone else around him too. I'm sorry but I don't see that as acceptable collateral damage.

- Neelix

 

[fusion_power]

If someone has to be punished, then it's the incapable CC Company that caused most of the mess and delays around Pandora. Go there (USA) and kick their asses, sue them, whatever. There you are at the right adress. They owe Craig and ED basicly hundredthousands of $ and compensation for some thousand broken PCB's too.  

 

[b1llygo4t]

If someone has to be punished, then it's the incapable CC Company that caused most of the mess and delays around Pandora. Go there (USA) and kick their asses, sue them, whatever. There you are at the right adress. They owe Craig and ED basicly hundredthousands of $ and compensation for some thousand broken PCB's too.  

woah watch out dude, none of that has been confirmed. that could be libel

Do you think its fair to ED to punish him for Craig's sins by bringing down his business?


I don't deny your right to complain and I even agree with most of the complaints, but what b1llygo4t was suggesting would not just harm Craig but everyone else around him too. I'm sorry but I don't see that as acceptable collateral damage.


- Neelix

 

[Marycontrary]

Fusion...Are you suggesting I go to Texas and kick ass? I can't sue them and I think Craig just let it go. It's up to him to sue them. I'm in the USA, maybe a 24 hours drive to texas, I have more money than common sense, so I'll go if you all want. I have no money (unemployed and physically broken) so you can imagine the piddly amount of common sense I have. I am married to my sugar daddy and he'll put gas money in my pocket and maybe bail me out when I get arrested...lol. I'm not very strong and I don't own a gun, but I could find my baseball bat. As well, it could produce headlines of "Senile woman attacks circuitco ceo due to 3yr wait for a product they messed up". It could be fun.

Seriously, How can Pandora ltd just let that go. Something is smelly there. Maybe it's easy to let it go because it's not his money...It was my money and the money of other preorders that cc wasted. I would bet that if a suit was filed in district court, CC would be more than happy to try to settle the issue. You would be amazed at what happens when the sheriff knocks on the door with a lawsuit to deliver.  Can someone on the forums from Texas find a lawyer for craig? $30 bucks to file a lawsuit and the lawyer takes 1/3 of what gets recovered, which is better than losing all of it! I seriously don't understand why that avenue isn't being persued. There's probably a 5yr statute of limitations on this and time is wasting.

 

[Marycontrary]

If someone has to be punished, then it's the incapable CC Company that caused most of the mess and delays around Pandora. Go there (USA) and kick their asses, sue them, whatever. There you are at the right adress. They owe Craig and ED basicly hundredthousands of $ and compensation for some thousand broken PCB's too.  

woah watch out dude, none of that has been confirmed. that could be libel

> 


Do you think its fair to ED to punish him for Craig's sins by bringing down his business?


I don't deny your right to complain and I even agree with most of the complaints, but what b1llygo4t was suggesting would not just harm Craig but everyone else around him too. I'm sorry but I don't see that as acceptable collateral damage.


- Neelix

but isnt ED protected by being a separate company?

 

[Fzero]

When Craig recovers from his illness he will be promoting the Pandora to generate new sales and also will be back on the forum.

this is at least good news, I guess the iCP2 running smoothly enough that Craig can get promoting/selling Pandoras?


Godspeed with the recovery


...I got this crap too, been feeling rotten since boxing day

 

[Marycontrary]

Keep it on your side of the pond h34r:   As you can see I'm wearing my Michael Jackson face covering to protect me from germs

 

[fusion_power]

woah watch out dude, none of that has been confirmed. that could be libel

None of that is confirmed?!?!?!? - Please!  :rolleyes:    

I'm following the Pandora development since the first Ideas of an "Craiginator" were around in the (gp32x) forums, I guess this was midd 2007, where the Pandora not even had it's name. Since then, I've maybe have read more in the forums than it's healthy for my mood but I think we all know the messs that happens and only a little of that was the fault of the OP-Team.

Yes, I agree that we, the community can't do much to make it better ,especialy not in case of CC, that's the Job of Craig and ED. We just can hope there is a way to get the money back that was put in there without propper results. Same for the Chinese Case Company that took 9 (or more) Months for making the Pandora Cases and at the end, they still had trouble that caused even more trouble (the urge to paint the cases, resulting into fitting problems and so on...)

I know it is much more easy for an US company to sue foreign companies than it is for a EU company to sue an US company but hey, If I'm out of money because of the fault of others, I first would try to get the money back from them, instead from my own customers, that are the last persons who are responsible for the mess.

At least, the good thing is, we (or better OP-Team) has learned alot from this and I'm sure, if there ever will be an "Pandora 2", stuff will get much smoother than with the Pandora 1.  Switching to EU companies was an good choice, ED is recieving and selling new, shiney and improved Pandoras regulary and generous Users even have donated money so that remaining preorders can be satisfied, even if only slowly.

So I don't want to sound rude or running angry with pitchforks and torches to CC or whoever caused the mess in the past. Actualy, I'm happy for everyone that get's it's Pandora and I'm sure, everyone will get it's Pandora, if not from Craig, then from ED, he never disappointed me.

 

[b1llygo4t]

woah watch out dude, none of that has been confirmed. that could be libel

None of that is confirmed?!?!?!? - Please!  :rolleyes:    

show me a source other than a forum post.