Idea to break the impasse

[EvilDragon]

Sadly, $150 doesn't even cover the production of the PCB, and there's the case, display, assembling, battery, etc. as well.


The current upgrade price for Craigs customers ($350) is a bit lower than the production costs.


You can't go much lower than that, sadly.


Basically, your idea is correct: $150 would mean that there's $150 less debt for Craigs company, because right now it owes you a Pandora and if you pay him $150, he'd still owe you the Pandora but would have $150 more money than before.


However: the company providing the units is my company. If 200 of Craigs customers would upgrade for $150, he'd have $30000 - and would have to send you these 200 units right away. But they'd cost $70000 to produce - so where would the remaining $40000 come from?


Yes, I agreed to deliver units to Craigs remaining customers as good as possible as well. But that only works based on the sales, etc.


There's no way I could take these $40000 (or even more, depending on the remaining upgrades) on my shoulder.


So that upgrade would have to be limited in numbers and would depend on the sales.


So it would be: Thanks to the sales, there are now 20 units ready for customers who would pay $150 for an upgrade price and not deliver any other units until then. It would certainly help, but how much ruckus would it create?


On the other hand, things couldn't be much worse in this case, so it might speed up things, that's for sure.

 

[klapse]

Back to the $150 number i pulled out of my butt. Say someone opts to upgrade to the 1ghz which funds one original. Send that funded original to someone upgrading to a rebirth for $150. You now have $150 more than you had before. Do that 3 times and It's paid for another original preorder. This could help get the queue fulfilled quicker by maybe 20%.

Ah I see, so your suggestion is that preorderers be given the option to pay $150 extra to move to a new first-priority queue? (the remaining cost of each to be paid with new sales profits)
That would certainly be possible, in theory... EDIT: You could make the 150 something like 175€ which would then be closer to covering the total original production cost. It would still require new sales profits for each unit to ship, but you could argue it would be a fair price, covering the total production cost for one unit.


You could also set up a sliding queue where the highest € amount upgraded moves to the front of the queue...

 

[Kumaki]

I still like MY idea best which seems to have been totally IGNORED.

 

[klapse]

I still like MY idea best which seems to have been totally IGNORED.

Apparently, not many people are attracted by the idea of paying for a second pandora and going to the end of the preorder queue.

 

[Marycontrary]

Kumaki, Your idea is wonderful and quite generous on your part. I don't think most people are as generous and optimistic. It would work for me if I had more money to play with.

 

[Kumaki]

I still like MY idea best which seems to have been totally IGNORED.

Apparently, not many people are attracted by the idea of paying for a second pandora and going to the end of the preorder queue.

But the point is you get it CHEAPER...and you help your fellows.

I mean, if you were going to get a second Pandy, anyway...why not do it this way, save yourself some bucks, have a bit of a wait time...and help out a fellow waiting person.  THAT's the idea.  It isn't for everyone.  But I'd consider doing it.  so I could get a second backup Pandy a little cheaper.  And since I already HAVE one...I would not mind waiting.

I mean, I know some are doing it...for whatever reasons...but it is more attractive to ME to do this...than to just donate money to the project and get nothing...when I already paid $500 for my unit.

I'm more likely to drop another $450 into the project if it means getting a second Pandy...even on wait...than I am to drop even $20 in to get nothing.

Not that I'm not a generous soul...but, let's face it the economy sucks, it isn't getting netter, and I have been out of work for two years, trying to start my own company in order to survive, and all I have is one temporary client who is dropping me later this month (this was a temp situation going in, I was just there to clean up the mess my ex-boss made of this doctor's billing...)

 

[Kumaki]

Kumaki, Your idea is wonderful and quite generous on your part. I don't think most people are as generous and optimistic. It would work for me if I had more money to play with.

Well...let's face it, my idea IS NOT entirely altruistic...I get something out of it, too.  A cheaper second Pandy.  Let's not make me out to be a saint or a god or anything is what I'm saying.

BUT...I know there's got to be others out there like me who would like a second Pandy as a backup.  I could see me using some tax-refund money to do this.  And some of us on this Board DO have money to play with, apparently.

No it doesn't work for everyone, and it doesn't solve the problem, but it buys time, and injects some badly-needed cash into the project.

I just really don't see a lose here...for those willing to do it.

 

[Marycontrary]

EEEK, Taxes. I'm missing my little deductions of days passed.

By putting yourself at the end of the very long queue, you may never see the 2nd Pandora. I know everyone is trying and intentions are good with most people. The fact remains that Craig isn't selling, nor answering emails. He got thrown a life saver by ED, but evidently it was too little and too late. I think maybe some of the preorders will get fulfilled, but I think the majority are SOL and that is sad. This is a niche product with a limited market. I think the popularity of Android phones could influence people positively and spark a few sales for those of us who want the smart part separate from the phone. Android has opened the eyes of the general public that there is more than windows and apple to consider.

Can the Pandora join a home network and share media? Can the Pandora run xbmc? I've sort of browsed the forums for this and haven't found much. Maybe the xbox-scene.com people might be interested in the Pandora, especially if it would join a home network and stream video. Those people always seem flush with cash and love anything open source. The down side to the modded gaming systems are illegal firmware using MS code, the Pandora is all open source with no need for illegal hacking. It might be a good alternative to those who are floundering in attempting to mod successfully due to the underworld super secret handshakes and such to get correct firmware and reluctance on that group of people to implicate themselves by helping newbies on the forum. I might post on the forums there and just ask if any of them have heard of pandora and what they think.

 

[Binky]

Bingo!

http://www.repo.openpandora.org/?page=detail&app=xbmc-xbmc-22395

 

[Marycontrary]

Bingo!

http://www.repo.openpandora.org/?page=detail&app=xbmc-xbmc-22395

Very cool. I wish I could try it.

I dropped a couple posts at xbox-scene, but my old username and password didn't work so I had to re-register. I've not visited the site in a long time and now I look like a noob to them. I added a post to a discussion about the ouya kickstart, by saying the Pandora is available now for those not wanting to wait for a kickstart

 

[Marycontrary]

I still like MY idea best which seems to have been totally IGNORED.

Apparently, not many people are attracted by the idea of paying for a second pandora and going to the end of the preorder queue.

But the point is you get it CHEAPER...and you help your fellows.

I mean, if you were going to get a second Pandy, anyway...why not do it this way, save yourself some bucks, have a bit of a wait time...and help out a fellow waiting person.  THAT's the idea.  It isn't for everyone.  But I'd consider doing it.  so I could get a second backup Pandy a little cheaper.  And since I already HAVE one...I would not mind waiting.

I mean, I know some are doing it...for whatever reasons...but it is more attractive to ME to do this...than to just donate money to the project and get nothing...when I already paid $500 for my unit.

I'm more likely to drop another $450 into the project if it means getting a second Pandy...even on wait...than I am to drop even $20 in to get nothing.

Not that I'm not a generous soul...but, let's face it the economy sucks, it isn't getting netter, and I have been out of work for two years, trying to start my own company in order to survive, and all I have is one temporary client who is dropping me later this month (this was a temp situation going in, I was just there to clean up the mess my ex-boss made of this doctor's billing...)

Good luck with starting your own company. My sis in law (who is a speech pathologist and holds several masters degrees) does medical coding and billing on a very part-time on call basis for the hospital I used to work for. I know they get behind and depend on competent on call work to catch up. They also farm out medical transcription work to work at home people.

 

[Kumaki]

What is this work at home page?  I might be interested in that from two standpoints:

One, a little work for myself while I get geared up.  Two, hopefully, maybe needing to send some of MY work out if I can get big enough.

 

[Marycontrary]

Well, this is interesting. Jacquelyn finally responded to my email. I had requested information on where I was in the queue so I could make an informed decision whether to wait or cancel. The email she sent said there are more than 100 customers ahead of me and said my order was now cancelled and to request my money via google checkout or paypal.

So, now I guess it is time to wait 3+ years for a refund? This is upsetting since I asked for information so I could make a decision and they just cancelled me. I was really hoping another option might become available at a more reasonable cost...ie my rebirth upgrade idea. Just more of the passive/aggressive mentality of Craig's store. The upside to this is, on another thread it was stated that refunds take priority due to EU law, so any cash Craig has must be used for refunds. On the down side Craig effectively has no income now and Ed is servicing those in his pre-order queue but doing nothing towards helping his queue of refunds.

Pass the LUBE, just when I thought I could not be anymore screwed, I find there is just not enough punishment for being an early supporter of this project.

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Hello Mary,

Please accept my apologies for the late reply, I have only returned to the office today due to illness.

I totally understand your comments and can only apologise for the continued delays.  Craig's last newsletter explained the current situation and the losses we have incurred and that is the reason we asked if customers wished to upgrade their orders - we certainly did not ask this to 'Ransom'. We do appreciate that this is not our customers problem and are endeavouring to ship all outstanding orders as soon as we can. There are more than a hundred orders in front of your order and therefore I have cancelled your order as requested.

Refunds will be processed via Paypal but we will not be able to process your refund immediately but you can request a chargeback via your card issuer with Google checkout.

Kind regards
Jacquelyn


 

On 23 December 2012 19:38, Jeff and Mary wrote:




Losing patience here. My order # is xxxxxxxxxxx. Where do I stand in the queue? I would like to know so I can make an informed decision. No real answers on the forum. Basically I want to know how many people are ahead of me. If I'm close, then I will wait. If hundreds are ahead of me, then I will make a refund demand and move on. I can't begin to explain how awful it feels that people can order today and get one within a couple weeks, while I have been waiting 3 years. I can't agree to the upgrade fee (ransom) to get one sooner.



 



Mary Ekstrom



 



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This should not be a situation where early supporters are out more money than someone who learns about it today and orders one.


 

 

[elwing]

Well, this is interesting. Jacquelyn finally responded to my email. I had requested information on where I was in the queue so I could make an informed decision whether to wait or cancel. The email she sent said there are more than 100 customers ahead of me and said my order was now cancelled and to request my money via google checkout or paypal.

So, now I guess it is time to wait 3+ years for a refund? This is upsetting since I asked for information so I could make a decision and they just cancelled me. I was really hoping another option might become available at a more reasonable cost...ie my rebirth upgrade idea. Just more of the passive/aggressive mentality of Craig's store. The upside to this is, on another thread it was stated that refunds take priority due to EU law, so any cash Craig has must be used for refunds. On the down side Craig effectively has no income now and Ed is servicing those in his pre-order queue but doing nothing towards helping his queue of refunds.

Pass the LUBE, just when I thought I could not be anymore screwed, I find there is just not enough punishment for being an early supporter of this project.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Mary,


Please accept my apologies for the late reply, I have only returned to the office today due to illness.


I totally understand your comments and can only apologise for the continued delays.  Craig's last newsletter explained the current situation and the losses we have incurred and that is the reason we asked if customers wished to upgrade their orders - we certainly did not ask this to 'Ransom'. We do appreciate that this is not our customers problem and are endeavouring to ship all outstanding orders as soon as we can. There are more than a hundred orders in front of your order and therefore I have cancelled your order as requested.


Refunds will be processed via Paypal but we will not be able to process your refund immediately but you can request a chargeback via your card issuer with Google checkout.


Kind regards


Jacquelyn

On 23 December 2012 19:38, Jeff and Mary wrote:



 





Losing patience here. My order # is xxxxxxxxxxx. Where do I stand in the queue? I would like to know so I can make an informed decision. No real answers on the forum. Basically I want to know how many people are ahead of me. If I'm close, then I will wait. If hundreds are ahead of me, then I will make a refund demand and move on. I can't begin to explain how awful it feels that people can order today and get one within a couple weeks, while I have been waiting 3 years. I can't agree to the upgrade fee (ransom) to get one sooner.



 



Mary Ekstrom



 



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This should not be a situation where early supporters are out more money than someone who learns about it today and orders one.

don't be so sour, you'll get your money back at least it seems, I seriously suspect I won't get anything back

 

[klapse]

Well, this is interesting. Jacquelyn finally responded to my email. I had requested information on where I was in the queue so I could make an informed decision whether to wait or cancel. The email she sent said there are more than 100 customers ahead of me and said my order was now cancelled and to request my money via google checkout or paypal.


So, now I guess it is time to wait 3+ years for a refund? This is upsetting since I asked for information so I could make a decision and they just cancelled me.


Pass the LUBE, just when I thought I could not be anymore screwed, I find there is just not enough punishment for being an early supporter of this project.

This is just incorrect Mary. Where did you get screwed? You said you would demand a refund if hundreds were ahead of you. Is this your "contrary" nature to refute what you previously said?

If hundreds are ahead of me, then I will make a refund demand and move on.

So they put you on the refund list as you said you would request. Kind of funny in a non-ironic way.

 

[Marycontrary]

There is a difference between over 100 and hundreds. Hundreds implies more than 200 at least, and uo.

 

[klapse]

I guess you're right. If I were only #150 in he queue, I'd prefer to wait for a unit as well.

 

[Neelix]

This is just incorrect Mary. Where did you get screwed? You said you would demand a refund if hundreds were ahead of you. Is this your "contrary" nature to refute what you previously said?

She did say that...

Aside from what has already been pointed out though, doing it this way prevented Mary from being able to make an informed choice in the matter, and that is terrible customer service whatever way you look at it.

One wonders how many of the refunds Craig found himself saddled with were because he took the frustrated ranting of a customer at face value and could have been avoided by giving them the opportunity to make an informed decision on the matter for them themselves.

- Neelix

 

[b1llygo4t]

wow so you asked for an update and they cancelled your order?  is this how business is handled in the UK? no wonder they wont go after CC if this is the type of business practices they are used to and accept.  no update at all to pre orders, his shop is closed, what happened to selling units to clear the que? dont you people have laws to protect consumers and hold people accountable? don't you people have a way to tarnish this mans record and stop him from doing this all again? the ICP falls apart, the ICP 2 is late. they are selling pandoras and even going so far as to start designing a pandora2 while preorders are still waiting. when does it end? all the while this guy is buying 3d printers and electric cars.

has anyone seen this interview? why would craig be considered a reliable commentator on something like this? he can't even get his source info right for the interview.
http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/Android/Ouya/feature.asp?c=43030

"We survived by the skin of our teeth and via some very, very kind customers and developers." how can this be considered a success?

i hope the Ouya has a seamless launch, just to spite craig. damn anyone who would try and persuade a possible Ouya buyer, or anyone else in the niche open source circuit to come anywhere close to craigs mess. i hope investors and interested consumers have a chance to be warned. everything he touches should have a warning label on it.

 

[TrashyMG]

wow so you asked for an update and they cancelled your order?

No she ask if there were hundreds of people in front of her she wanted a refund.. So that's what happened. I guess the only confusion is the definition of hundreds.